another pitch for a show, actually

[Tronta]

what if you just had a few people going to a cardshop and playing children's card games?

 

they'd keep the holograms of course, cuz fuckit, but aside from that it's just normal people going to the card shop. playing other people. they'd all have their own style of deck, but they'd run a few other things too. there would be some tournies, trading, stuff like that. but nothing too annoying.

 

it would be seriously character driven, so they would have to be built pretty solidly and realistically. not just mary sue's and self insert generics. nor boring stereotypes.

 

there could even be a few antagonistic players to create some drama.

 

for those of you who get the reference, it'd be a card game about nothing :P

 

 

thoughts?

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

what if you just had a few people going to a cardshop and playing children's card games?

 

they'd keep the holograms of course' date=' cuz fuckit, but aside from that it's just normal people going to the card shop. playing other people. they'd all have their own style of deck, but they'd run a few other things too. there would be some tournies, trading, stuff like that. but nothing too annoying.

 

it would be seriously character driven, so they would have to be built pretty solidly and realistically. not just mary sue's and self insert generics. nor boring stereotypes.

 

there could even be a few antagonistic players to create some drama.

 

for those of you who get the reference, it'd be a card game about nothing :P

 

 

thoughts?

[/quote']

 

Wouldn't be as attractive a show to the kids who have action packed anime, manga, cartoons, and scripted reality TV shows to watch.

[Fraz]

what if you just had a few people going to a cardshop and playing children's card games?

 

they'd keep the holograms of course' date=' cuz fuckit, but aside from that it's just normal people going to the card shop. playing other people. they'd all have their own style of deck, but they'd run a few other things too. there would be some tournies, trading, stuff like that. but nothing too annoying.

 

it would be seriously character driven, so they would have to be built pretty solidly and realistically. not just mary sue's and self insert generics. nor boring stereotypes.

 

there could even be a few antagonistic players to create some drama.

 

for those of you who get the reference, it'd be a card game about nothing :P

 

 

thoughts?

[/quote']

 

So Akagi, but about yugioh?

[evilfusion]

Some of shows' appeal is in the drama or the high stakes that simply don't happen in RL. Anything too close to a "realistic" duel or realistic settings is often just boring. Duels have to be scripted to make them interesting.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Some of shows' appeal is in the drama or the high stakes that simply don't happen in RL. Anything too close to a "realistic" duel or realistic settings is often just boring. Duels have to be scripted to make them interesting.

 

In the show, they could still set the duel up based on what would be cool combos and finishes, not based on gimics and fandom theme cards.

[evilfusion]

You may need to be more specific on some of these gimmicks and fandom theme cards. The only duel that seemed specifically fixed to display a card is the only duel whose ending truly infuriated me. Two words: Stronghold Guardian.

[Tronta]

well no, it wouldn't be interesting to children, but then i think teenagers make up a large portion of the yugioh fanbase anyway.

[-Berserker-]

Making Yugioh: Seinfield?

[evilfusion]

The primary difference is that, although Seinfeld didn't take itself too seriously and most plots had character influence being heavily important, Seinfeld had more flexibility with plots and was a sitcom. Yugioh's main plot relates in some way to duels, and what is being described sounds like "real life with a perk (the hologram duels)".

 

Without something to escalate the stakes, it won't really get anywhere. How do you develop characters if they don't take the game quite as seriously in RL? What possible antagonistic characters can exist to keep drama strong if a lot of the "stake-duels" don't exist? What about character motivations? Why are they playing a card game at a card shop? What do they want out of this? What can winning a card game tournament at a card shop do for them? They're not fighting for their life, or the lives of others. No one will get hurt. No one with any rational, not Yu-gi-oh world based, sense will stake much on a card game, holograms or not. Card thieves would be beaten to a pulp, not dueled.

 

WHAT THE HECK IS LEFT if you strip away everything dramatic about the anime?

 

And Yugioh's fanbase in Japan ARE teens. So this is marketed at teens by...being less interesting than a show marketed at teens?

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

The primary difference is that' date=' although Seinfeld didn't take itself too seriously and most plots had character influence being heavily important, Seinfeld had more flexibility with plots and was a sitcom. Yugioh's main plot relates in some way to duels, and what is being described sounds like "real life with a perk (the hologram duels)".

 

Without something to escalate the stakes, it won't really get anywhere. How do you develop characters if they don't take the game quite as seriously in RL? What possible antagonistic characters can exist to keep drama strong if a lot of the "stake-duels" don't exist? What about character motivations? Why are they playing a card game at a card shop? What do they want out of this? What can winning a card game tournament at a card shop do for them? They're not fighting for their life, or the lives of others. No one will get hurt. No one with any rational, not Yu-gi-oh based world, sense will stake much on a card game, holograms or not. Card thieves would be beaten to a pulp, not dueled.

 

WHAT THE HECK IS LEFT if you strip away everything dramatic about the anime?

 

And Yugioh's fanbase in Japan ARE teens. So this is marketed at teens by...being less interesting than a show marketed at teens?

[/quote']

 

Honestly, I could see, if yugimonz lasts long enough, holograms being a possibility for the game.

[evilfusion]

I think the abridged series says it best:

 

"Actually, they're super-advanced holograms for the sole purpose of enriching a children's card game."

"Okay, seriously, you've got to be f-ing kidding me. Who would spend all that money on something like that?"

(Kaiba and Yugi, Yugioh Abridged Series 1)

 

Even if holograms got developed, the time, effort, and money put into development, not to mention distribution, would be absurd. And updating the system for new releases...it'd be insane.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

I think the abridged series says it best:

 

"Actually' date=' they're super-advanced holograms for the sole purpose of enriching a children's card game."

"Okay, seriously, you've got to be f-ing kidding me. Who would spend all that money on something like that?"

(Kaiba and Yugi, Yugioh Abridged Series 1)

 

Even if holograms got developed, the time, effort, and money put into development, not to mention distribution, would be absurd. And updating the system for new releases...it'd be insane.

[/quote']

 

I do not mean giant moving monsters, I mean little virtual statues, sort of like chess pieces. Whether people will solve enough of their problems and have enough money left to spend on a children's card game is a topic that should [obligatory shouting]NOT[/shouting] be discussed here.

[Tronta]

Without something to escalate the stakes' date=' it won't really get anywhere. How do you develop characters if they don't take the game quite as seriously in RL? [b']why cant they?[/b] What possible antagonistic characters can exist to keep drama strong if a lot of the "stake-duels" don't exist? the same antagonistic people you probably see at your cardshop What about character motivations? what about them? Why are they playing a card game at a card shop? why does anyone play yugioh? What do they want out of this? entertainment, prize money, self satisfaction, the normal reasons people play What can winning a card game tournament at a card shop do for them? it can push them to regionals, get them prize money/cards, a sense of self satisfaction, a chance to test their decks and abilities against others, etc. the same reasons most people enter tournies. They're not fighting for their life, or the lives of others. No one will get hurt. No one with any rational, not Yu-gi-oh world based, sense will stake much on a card game, holograms or not. then why do normal people play? Card thieves would be beaten to a pulp, not dueled. and...?

 

WHAT THE HECK IS LEFT if you strip away everything dramatic about the anime? real people playing a real card game. the holograms would remain as a fantastic kramer element that likely wouldn't be explained or focused on.

 

And Yugioh's fanbase in Japan ARE teens. So this is marketed at teens by...being less interesting than a show marketed at teens? GX was sheet. later seasons of yugioh were sheet. 5D's is arguably just as shitty. floating ghost winged kuriboh bullshit and duels on motorcycles are hardly things marketed at teens. sounds like sheet being marketed at kids to me.

 

what is being described is exactly real life. the hologram duels would just be an element to make the duels themselves more interesting to watch. since they're generally pretty boring to watch IRL. if you don't see any motivation for the characters then you're being way too fantastical in your thought process. why don't you ask yourself why /you/ play. then tell me why there couldn't be a character who plays for those exact reasons.

[Guest Delinquent Girl NiAtSoFi]

Realistic yugioh vs. Anime yugioh = Mixed Martial Arts vs. Pro Wrestling

 

Realistic is quick and to the point rather than a 5 episode long game. Thus, realistic is better.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Realistic yugioh vs. Anime yugioh = Mixed Martial Arts vs. Pro Wrestling

 

Realistic is quick and to the point rather than a 5 episode long game. Thus' date=' realistic is better.

[/quote']

 

Realisty Yugioh Anime - Kiryu beats main character in final duel of the world championship on turn 2.

[-Berserker-]

Realistic yugioh vs. Anime yugioh = Mixed Martial Arts vs. Pro Wrestling

 

Realistic is quick and to the point rather than a 5 episode long game. Thus' date=' realistic is better.

[/quote']

 

Realisty Yugioh Anime - Kiryu beats main character in final duel of the world championship on turn 2.

 

Realistic - Kiryu is in a tomb...

[Guest PikaPerson01]

WHAT THE HECK IS LEFT if you strip away everything dramatic about the anime?

 

You could make the duels much more character driven. Four our five "Team" members, all dueling and what not. The story would be about not only their little struggle in duels, but also their own internal struggle in their team.

 

In one episode, Character A pulls a super rare powerful card, perfect for his deck, but some rival character appears and also needs the card. He offers a trade, some super rare powerful card that Character B desperately needs to complete his deck. The episode deals with Character A's struggle in helping his great deck become better, or helping Character B's substandard deck get into the level of everyone else's.

 

The next episode, Character C gets a girlfriend and when he tries to bring her into the dueling world, she recoils in shock and horror. She pulls the ultimatum at the end "Your stupid card game or me?" It's a two parter! O_O

 

The second episode, Character C has chosen his girlfriend, and the team tries to cope without him. They miss his company overall, and morale is generally low. In the end, it's revealed the girl is actually a pretty awesome duelist, and doesn't like the game because it brings back old memories of her boyfriend. In the end, she joins the team and brings a well deserved Double X chromosome to balance out the team. Character C and girlfriend join the team.

 

Season one Finale! Character D is older then the rest, and now he's graduating. It seems they won't see him until much later on. And... more bad stuff.

 

It'd be more of a 'slice of life' kind of an anime then an 'action' or whatever anime.

 

On a completely unrelated note, the above may or may not be loosely based on the time and trials of my friends.

[evilfusion]

[spoiler=long]You're possibly right, but the reason to be fantastical in the thought process is, in relation to a show about card games, is that if such traits don't exist, it would probably be extremely dull.

 

I really must ask. Do you watch the original episodes with subs or do you watch the English dubs? The dubs are aimed at a younger audience, whereas the Japanese episodes, and by relation, the subbed episodes, are clearly and blatantly marketed at a teen audience. While there are elements in the originals that are...odd, you have to view them through the context of the originals and how they're used to fully grasp how they work together in the show itself. Turbo Dueling in 5Ds is actually pretty interesting from terms of gameplay mechanics, and if you try to disregard the fact that a card game is the focus of the series, it's really quite enjoyable.

 

I shall now address your bolded comments.

 

1) They can take the card game as seriously. I'll just concede that point because it's the least relevent.

 

2) I don't go to cardshops, but I assume such people are the arrogant "holier-than-thou" metagamers that make fun of newbies and gloat upon winning or insist the opponent is an idiot for using combo A over combo B. Which of course is NOTHING like Kaiba, Chazz, or to an extent, Jack.

 

My main issue is that that class of character in the anime usually treat defeats as shocking events, rather than an inevitable fact of life, and if this "show" would handle that like RL, the best you're going to get is someone incredibly pissed off and in denial who'll treat the victor like crap. I really don't see any character development for either protagonists or antagonists in such a scenario like a meager card shop, rather than people in the anime, who have some sort of entertainment or financial power, to which a loss is MUCH poorer for the reputation.

 

3) Addressed in a later question. What were the motivations of players? Why should we support them? What do they want? How do they plan to get it?

 

4) Yes, but you must remember that while people play Yugioh primarily for fun, playing something purely for fun is not exactly going to bring in swarms of viewers to watch "the 'exciting' conclusion of a casual game between two random people with nothing on the line".

 

5) And? What good is entertainment, self-satisfaction, and prize money if there's no point to wanting them besides possessing them? Those don't make strong characters that the audience will relate to. The original Yugioh had prize money in the Duelist Kingdom arc, but Yugi's motivation was to rescue his grandpa's soul and Joey's was to win the money for his sister. Both motivations made the audience want to back them. Even Kaiba's motivation was for his brother and his business. Those are higher stakes, which makes them characters you're willing to support. Winning to have money is all fine and good, but it doesn't go anywhere from that. The money does what? Gives them the chance to upgrade their deck? Where do you move on from that?

 

6) AND?! You misunderstand what I'm getting at. What is the point of trying to accomplish such things and why should the audience or reader (if written) give a damn? I'm reminded of early into 5Ds' WRGP arc. From the start, it's clear they're only entering the tournament for the reasons you say these characters should. Fun, respect, prize money or whatever. Characters can be motivated by such things, but such things are also bland to those not involved in that universe directly. It becomes watching the show for the sake of watching the show. I'm not saying it's unworkable, but good luck with making the audience's attention linger.

 

7) Normal people play for the reasons you already mentioned. But they're not being broadcasted on TV for people to watch as entertainment, partially because they're playing a card game.

 

8) The card thief thing is that Dueling in a RL scenario would not be a dispute settler. Therefore, if you want frequent dueling, you often do need to add elements that prompt duels outside of "for fun" and "for tournament". As an example, if someone steals your cards, will they challenge you to a duel with the card as the prize, which you'll accept, or will you beat the everliving crap out of them? There is no dueling plot element here. Dueling is the majority of the reasons people watch Yugioh.

 

9) No comment on holograms.

 

10) Those are all debatable and yes, the JAPANESE versions are steered towards teens. If you watch subs, the sheer amount of violence, death, swearing and the like prove that even ludicrous elements like card games on motorcycles, or duel monster spirits can be viewed somewhat seriously if written correctly. Also, Yugioh anime was tied to the manga, and there were filler arcs when the anime went too fast. The "worst" arcs were the filler arcs: Virtual World, Orichalcos, and Grand Prix. GX, in my view, was the writers trying to continue the formula, but dropping the ball as they tried to figure out what worked and what didn't. By 5Ds, they had learned from the mistakes of GX and the show was vastly improved.

 

Do something for me, please. Please write out a typical episode of this theoretical show. I don't care where you start: the pilot, the finale, some point in the middle. Just try to write an episode within your idea's designs. Then explain why that is as interesting, or moreso, than how the Yugioh anime is handled.

 

 

[Guest Delinquent Girl NiAtSoFi]

Realistic Yugioh could be written like The Shield. A group of students at Duel Academy who cheat in duels and hide their cheating ways from a suspecting teacher. They steal the Sacred Beasts, and greed hurts the team until the naive one burns the cards.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Nah, I hate animation or just shows in general that try working off of characters in a really boring environment. It either stays boring or has to be made incredibly fake to get remotely interesting. Neither of which sound all that desirable to me.

[Cypress]

Realistic Yugioh = Poker-like environment

 

people playing poker don't have motives to play other than for enjoyment and prize money, similar to that of real life yugioh, and yet poker is broadcasted on TV with no sort of plot, character motives, or thoughts of destroying the world if you get the best hand, sealing the loser's soul and whatnot. So why cant we? -.-

 

Translation to all you who dont care about anything i say: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[evilfusion]

Realistic Yugioh = Poker-like environment

 

people playing poker don't have motives to play other than for enjoyment and prize money' date=' similar to that of real life yugioh, and yet poker is broadcasted on TV with no sort of plot, character motives, or thoughts of destroying the world if you get the best hand, sealing the loser's soul and whatnot. So why cant we? -.-

 

Translation to all you who dont care about anything i say: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

[/quote']

 

While I agree with what you're saying, maybe it's just that I find next to no interest in watching Poker on TV. It's monotonous at best, and there AREN'T characters, they're actual people. People you have little to no actual connection with because they're mostly complete strangers. Even if you support one of them, you support them based on just...random reasons.

 

I agree with Corporal Atlas. I don't think there's much of a demographic for such a show. The environment of a card shop is not exactly prime entertainment material unless you're physically there, and even then...

[Guest PikaPerson01]

[spoiler=long]You're possibly right' date=' but the reason to be fantastical in the thought process is, in relation to a show about card games, is that if such traits don't exist, it would probably be extremely dull.

 

I really must ask. Do you watch the original episodes with subs or do you watch the English dubs? The dubs are aimed at a younger audience, whereas the Japanese episodes, and by relation, the subbed episodes, are clearly and blatantly marketed at a teen audience. While there are elements in the originals that are...odd, you have to view them through the context of the originals and how they're used to fully grasp how they work together in the show itself. Turbo Dueling in 5Ds is actually pretty interesting from terms of gameplay mechanics, and if you try to disregard the fact that a card game is the focus of the series, it's really quite enjoyable.

 

I shall now address your bolded comments.

 

1) They can take the card game as seriously. I'll just concede that point because it's the least relevent.

 

2) I don't go to cardshops, but I assume such people are the arrogant "holier-than-thou" metagamers that make fun of newbies and gloat upon winning or insist the opponent is an idiot for using combo A over combo B. Which of course is NOTHING like Kaiba, Chazz, or to an extent, Jack.

 

My main issue is that that class of character in the anime usually treat defeats as shocking events, rather than an inevitable fact of life, and if this "show" would handle that like RL, the best you're going to get is someone incredibly pissed off and in denial who'll treat the victor like crap. I really don't see any character development for either protagonists or antagonists in such a scenario like a meager card shop, rather than people in the anime, who have some sort of entertainment or financial power, to which a loss is MUCH poorer for the reputation.

 

3) Addressed in a later question. What were the motivations of players? Why should we support them? What do they want? How do they plan to get it?

 

4) Yes, but you must remember that while people play Yugioh primarily for fun, playing something purely for fun is not exactly going to bring in swarms of viewers to watch "the 'exciting' conclusion of a casual game between two random people with nothing on the line".

 

5) And? What good is entertainment, self-satisfaction, and prize money if there's no point to wanting them besides possessing them? Those don't make strong characters that the audience will relate to. The original Yugioh had prize money in the Duelist Kingdom arc, but Yugi's motivation was to rescue his grandpa's soul and Joey's was to win the money for his sister. Both motivations made the audience want to back them. Even Kaiba's motivation was for his brother and his business. Those are higher stakes, which makes them characters you're willing to support. Winning to have money is all fine and good, but it doesn't go anywhere from that. The money does what? Gives them the chance to upgrade their deck? Where do you move on from that?

 

6) AND?! You misunderstand what I'm getting at. What is the point of trying to accomplish such things and why should the audience or reader (if written) give a damn? I'm reminded of early into 5Ds' WRGP arc. From the start, it's clear they're only entering the tournament for the reasons you say these characters should. Fun, respect, prize money or whatever. Characters can be motivated by such things, but such things are also bland to those not involved in that universe directly. It becomes watching the show for the sake of watching the show. I'm not saying it's unworkable, but good luck with making the audience's attention linger.

 

7) Normal people play for the reasons you already mentioned. But they're not being broadcasted on TV for people to watch as entertainment, partially because they're playing a card game.

 

8) The card thief thing is that Dueling in a RL scenario would not be a dispute settler. Therefore, if you want frequent dueling, you often do need to add elements that prompt duels outside of "for fun" and "for tournament". As an example, if someone steals your cards, will they challenge you to a duel with the card as the prize, which you'll accept, or will you beat the everliving crap out of them? There is no dueling plot element here. Dueling is the majority of the reasons people watch Yugioh.

 

9) No comment on holograms.

 

10) Those are all debatable and yes, the JAPANESE versions are steered towards teens. If you watch subs, the sheer amount of violence, death, swearing and the like prove that even ludicrous elements like card games on motorcycles, or duel monster spirits can be viewed somewhat seriously if written correctly. Also, Yugioh anime was tied to the manga, and there were filler arcs when the anime went too fast. The "worst" arcs were the filler arcs: Virtual World, Orichalcos, and Grand Prix. GX, in my view, was the writers trying to continue the formula, but dropping the ball as they tried to figure out what worked and what didn't. By 5Ds, they had learned from the mistakes of GX and the show was vastly improved.

 

Do something for me, please. Please write out a typical episode of this theoretical show. I don't care where you start: the pilot, the finale, some point in the middle. Just try to write an episode within your idea's designs. Then explain why that is as interesting, or moreso, than how the Yugioh anime is handled.

 

 

[/quote']

 

... Is this aimed at me? 'Cause I didn't read it...

 

lol+1postcount. <_<

[evilfusion]

Nope, aimed at Tronta, who replied to my last long post.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

*feels better about not reading it!* =D

 

But I think I gave a decent-ish example. In short, the anime would be more 'slice of life' then 'action'. It'd have dueling, but be it wouldn't be the main important thing about it.

 

... Or may Tronta want's something else. IDK.