TCG Winged Dragon of Ra

[Darthakin]

Not sure if this has been spoken for, but seriously. 
The TCG version of Ra, wtf happened to it?! It's a patheticly weak card, except if you get it out in an early round (which means having some serious luck).
OCG/ANIME: This card's atk == Its tribute's attack
TCG: None of that shit. 

 

The only way for Ra to have any ATK is to pay all your lifepoints save 100. What kind of playing is that?! 

Seriously, please tell me I just got a fake card and that this is not the actual card.

[Sora1499]

Oh no, it sucks. So badly. Ironically, the supposedly weakest god, Obelisk, is actually the best.

[Darthakin]

I thought Slifer was the weakest... But anyways, da fuq. The only thing I could thinnk of that Ra *COULD* Be used for is to summon Horakhty. 

[Brinolovania]

They probably honestly could've given him the "ATK of tributes" effect, just as long as they didn't also give him the no-targeting clause. But, or course, Konami. And they had to make him be unable to be SS'd, too...

[玄魔の王]

They probably honestly could've given him the "ATK of tributes" effect, just as long as they didn't also give him the no-targeting clause. But, or course, Konami. And they had to make him be unable to be SS'd, too...

They could do that now for sure, but during Baby Ruler format that would've been horrifying. "8000 or so beater at profit? Yes plz."

That said, they completely overdid his nerf, for reasons I will never understand.

[More than 3 characters]

Oh no, it sucks. So badly. Ironically, the supposedly weakest god, Obelisk, is actually the best.

Technically Obelisk and Slifer are supposed to be equal, and Ra above both.

[Darthakin]

Technically Obelisk and Slifer are supposed to be equal, and Ra above both.

Whatever the case,both Obelisk and Slifer completely pown Ra at the moment. 

[Sleepy]

Even as casual players, there's only one way to call IRL Ra: Trash.

 

I would have rather given it the ATK = Tributes clause with a "no targeting" towards certain types of cards, but not all 3 if that ends up potentially being a problem.

Then the ability to SS it, and the 1000 LP = destroy 1 card, just for when it was revived.

That'd be fair to me, instead of the suicidal [s]or[/s] and OTKish ATK = LP that they gave it. Which other cards like Ancient Sacred Wyvern and Grannel do better in Life gaining decks.

 

I mean, being the Phoenix, the god of resurrection, etc, was THE theme of Ra. They shouldn't have made the card if they planned on taking away the very thing that characterized it to begin with.

[Toffee.]

Oh no, it sucks. So badly. Ironically, the supposedly weakest god, Obelisk, is actually the best.

Cuz' Obelisk was the least over-the-top one. Hence why it was hardly changed.
BUT NO, OBVEIOUSLY RA HAS TO BE THE BEST-
No. Ra was flat-out ridiculous, on the grounds that it had an overabundance of idiotically cray effects n' junk, to the point of it being outright stupid.
Slifer stayed, roughly in tact, but had to be toned down.

[Sleepy]

Cuz' Obelisk was the least over-the-top one. Hence why it was hardly changed.
BUT NO, OBVEIOUSLY RA HAS TO BE THE BEST-
No. Ra was flat-out ridiculous, on the grounds that it had an overabundance of idiotically cray effects n' junk, to the point of it being outright stupid.
Slifer stayed, roughly in tact, but had to be toned down.

The "infinite ATK and can attack" part, and the ability to break through Mirror Force [s]and gains 650 ATK out of nowhere for no reason[/s] don't seem like slight changes xD

[玄魔の王]

The "infinite ATK and can attack" part, and the ability to break through Mirror Force and gains 650 ATK out of nowhere for no reason don't seem like slight changes xD

It was actually 850, and limited to the dub.

[Sleepy]

It was actually 850, and limited to the dub.

850... my bad xD
Though I know it was just the dub, it was more of a joke.

[heraldry_lord]

Cuz' Obelisk was the least over-the-top one. Hence why it was hardly changed.
BUT NO, OBVEIOUSLY RA HAS TO BE THE BEST-
No. Ra was flat-out ridiculous, on the grounds that it had an overabundance of idiotically cray effects n' junk, to the point of it being outright stupid.
Slifer stayed, roughly in tact, but had to be toned down.

 

It doesn't change the fact that Ra was horribly nerfed.  If it had the "ATK = Tributes" effect, if it could be Special Summoned, if its "ATK = pay down to 100" effect was upon Special Summon, and if it had the "pay 1000 to pop a monster" effect regardless of how it was Summoned, it would have been great. 

 

Ra is supposed to be worth 3 Tributes, especially since they took away its Special Summonability.  It's barely worth 1.  Rage of the Deep Sea can gain a ginormous amount of ATK, and he has absolutely no restrictions.

[Toffee.]

It doesn't change the fact that Ra was horribly nerfed-

You do realize that the original artwork is Ra's Phoenix Mode, right? So the card is, literally, depicted and translated as such.
Hence why it lacks the ATK gain off tributes part, as it's basically just the Phoenix Mode part.

[heraldry_lord]

You do realize that the original artwork is Ra's Phoenix Mode, right? So the card is, literally, depicted and translated as such.
Hence why it lacks the ATK gain off tributes part, as it's basically just the Phoenix Mode part.

 

Then, if that's the case, they should have made his 3 modes.  That way, you can use Ra in some way, but not be suicidal in the process.

[Toffee.]

Then, if that's the case, they should have made his 3 modes.  That way, you can use Ra in some way, but not be suicidal in the process.

But Phoenix Ra IS suicidal, since that's the whole point. It's also why you convert your Life Points into it's ATK.

[heraldry_lord]

But Phoenix Ra IS suicidal, since that's the whole point. It's also why you convert your Life Points into it's ATK.

 

Normal Ra isn't, since he gains the ATK of the Tributes.  Hence why it would have been nice to have both.  Also, remember that in the DM anime, only Marik used Phoenix Mode in a Duel, and he could opt out of the Point-to-Point Transfer with De-Fusion. 

 

That being said, it IS possible to make a semi-playable deck with Ra if you have decent LP-gain cards like Soul Absorption backing you up, but the Macro limit hurt that.

[Toffee.]

Thing is, with regards to Ra-
The anime version had too many effects and was just an overall mary-sue of a card.
So really, your complaining about a card that last all that, when it having all of said effects would just be too damn ridiculous.

[heraldry_lord]

Thing is, with regards to Ra-
The anime version had too many effects and was just an overall mary-sue of a card.
So really, your complaining about a card that last all that, when it having all of said effects would just be too damn ridiculous.

 

My issue isn't the fact that he was nerfed, because he did need it; it's his playability.  That's always been my issue with IRL Ra.  The card suffers a lot of disdain, precisely because very few have the guts to use him, or they often pay dearly for it when they do, lest he gets Veilered after paying the LP.  And this for Tributing 3 monsters, which is still a big deal in today's game.  Barbaros, The Wicked Avatar, Obelisk, Plasma and even Slifer are much better 3-monster investments.

[evilfusion]

I'm obligated to, whenever discussing the TCG version of Ra, note that the being able to SS Ra was its entire shtick in the anime.

 

I've decided that Ra's nerf was essential. Some of the World Championship games had Ra available with all its effects intact. And every single one of them was abusable.

 

- Firstly, if you Tribute monsters and give it the ATK of the Tributes, you can easily be bringing out something with 6000+ ATK. While this may be understandable for its intended power, it's still ridiculously high and that's just on average. Try Tributing things with genuinely good ATK and easy Summon Conditions. As a result, this effect was removed.

 

- If you pay LP to 1 (or 100) at any time, OTKing is easy. If you limit it to the timing it's been Summoned (as the real card does), but allow it to be Special Summoned, even just for a turn like Obelisk and Slifer, you get crazy OTK shenanigans with things like Reasoning, Monster Gate, Reborn, etc. That will be all Ra will be used for: Some sort of quick "SS Ra, pay LP, kill kill kill" Deckstyle. And it'll be self-contrary if you let it be SSable, but can't pay LP except if Normal Summoned, to prevent this type of abuse. As a result, they removed the ability to SS it.

 

Later, this is a wise choice due to Horakthy. But Horakthy becomes horrible because you have to hard Summon Ra, which sucks immensely.

 

The real kicker is they maintained the "pay 1000 to kill something" effect. That would be cool to have...except Ra needs 3 Tributes, and the only way to give it ATK is to pay almost all your LP. So you need 3 Tributes for a 0 ATK monster that can kill monsters for 1000 LP each, or you have to use another card to increase your LP. If Ra could be SSed and have the pay 1000 effect, then it'd have some sort of usable purpose, but otherwise, it's a costly card in both LP and resources that's disturbingly outclassed by Beast King Barbaros.

 

For 0 Tributes, Barbaros is a 1900 Level 8 monster. For 2 Tributes, it's a 3000 vanilla. For 3 Tributes, it's a 3000 monster that nukes your opponent's entire Field. Why even consider Ra compared to that?

[Sleepy]

I'm obligated to, whenever discussing the TCG version of Ra, note that the being able to SS Ra was its entire shtick in the anime.

 

I've decided that Ra's nerf was essential. Some of the World Championship games had Ra available with all its effects intact. And every single one of them was abusable.

 

- Firstly, if you Tribute monsters and give it the ATK of the Tributes, you can easily be bringing out something with 6000+ ATK. While this may be understandable for its intended power, it's still ridiculously high and that's just on average. Try Tributing things with genuinely good ATK and easy Summon Conditions. As a result, this effect was removed.

 

- If you pay LP to 1 (or 100) at any time, OTKing is easy. If you limit it to the timing it's been Summoned (as the real card does), but allow it to be Special Summoned, even just for a turn like Obelisk and Slifer, you get crazy OTK shenanigans with things like Reasoning, Monster Gate, Reborn, etc. That will be all Ra will be used for: Some sort of quick "SS Ra, pay LP, kill kill kill" Deckstyle. And it'll be self-contrary if you let it be SSable, but can't pay LP except if Normal Summoned, to prevent this type of abuse. As a result, they removed the ability to SS it.

 

Later, this is a wise choice due to Horakthy. But Horakthy becomes horrible because you have to hard Summon Ra, which sucks immensely.

 

The real kicker is they maintained the "pay 1000 to kill something" effect. That would be cool to have...except Ra needs 3 Tributes, and the only way to give it ATK is to pay almost all your LP. So you need 3 Tributes for a 0 ATK monster that can kill monsters for 1000 LP each, or you have to use another card to increase your LP. If Ra could be SSed and have the pay 1000 effect, then it'd have some sort of usable purpose, but otherwise, it's a costly card in both LP and resources that's disturbingly outclassed by Beast King Barbaros.

 

For 0 Tributes, Barbaros is a 1900 Level 8 monster. For 2 Tributes, it's a 3000 vanilla. For 3 Tributes, it's a 3000 monster that nukes your opponent's entire Field. Why even consider Ra compared to that?

Tribute 3 monsters for it's Normal Summon (cannot be Set). Cards/Effects cannot negate this card's Normal Summon or activate in response to it. If Special Summoned, it is sent to the Graveyard during the End Phase. All Battle Damage your opponent takes from battles involving this card is halved. When Tribute Summoned: It gains the ATK and DEF the Tributed monsters had on the field. If Special Summoned from the Graveyard: You can pay Life Points until you have 100 left; this card gains that much ATK and DEF. You can decrease this card's ATK and DEF by 1000 to target 1 opponent's monster; destroy it.

 

Is that reasonable?

It could also be something along the lines of "All Battle Damage your opponent takes from battles involving this card becomes 1000".

*puts on puppy eyes*

[heraldry_lord]

At the very least, this version of Ra makes Avatar's rivalry from the manga that much more prominent.  If you pay for Ra's ATK, and your opponent Summons Avatar and beats over Ra, you lose 100 LP exactly, because that's what Avatar does; it takes Ra's effect and throws it back in its face.