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Ryusei the Morning Star

Trump Administration Actions Thread

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https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes

Immigrants are also paying their taxes, so they're giving their fair share. Perhaps instead of assuming that these immigrants will never apply for citizenship, you might be better served asking whether it's because they don't want to, or if they do want to apply, but the process is absurdly difficult.

https://americasvoice.org/blog/immigration-101-why-immigrants-cant-just-get-legal/

Do you have any evidence that the undocumented immigrants with half a dozen cars are reaping the benefits that my taxes pay for, or are you just making that up?

I'm used to these bad faith arguments. Inventing a strawman, then putting words in mouth to pretend that I somehow support that strawman isn't really as effective as you seem to think it is. Lay off the hyperbole, and we might actually have a productive discussion here.

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16 hours ago, Phantom Roxas said:

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/1/18241692/undocumented-immigrants-pay-state-local-taxes

Immigrants are also paying their taxes, so they're giving their fair share. Perhaps instead of assuming that these immigrants will never apply for citizenship, you might be better served asking whether it's because they don't want to, or if they do want to apply, but the process is absurdly difficult.

https://americasvoice.org/blog/immigration-101-why-immigrants-cant-just-get-legal/

Do you have any evidence that the undocumented immigrants with half a dozen cars are reaping the benefits that my taxes pay for, or are you just making that up?

I'm used to these bad faith arguments. Inventing a strawman, then putting words in mouth to pretend that I somehow support that strawman isn't really as effective as you seem to think it is. Lay off the hyperbole, and we might actually have a productive discussion here.

The thing is, I'm not making a strawman argument because I see it everyday. There is somebody collecting state benefits (including housing and SNAP) and they own a 2020 Camaro RS. You're welcome to go to the chevy website yourself and price the car. I promise it will be north of $50k. But like I said, there are people that play the system so well. So before accusing one of making a "strawman or bad faith argument", try to consider the fact that they likely see what's happening on a daily basis. I'm not making my arguments in bad faith or giving a strawman to burn. I'm presenting a cold fact of a broken system that needs to be fixed.

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I'm not doubting that the cars are expensive. I considered that it was possible that you see it happening on a daily basis, especially when you said you work with immigrants, but unless you have a job that involves confirming that undocumented immigrants are collecting those benefits to pay for multiple fancy cars, it seems unlikely that the problem is as widespread as you're making it out to be. Are the immigrants you work with symptomatic of how broken the system is, or do they seem to be exceptions in any regard?

My position is that I think it should be easier for immigrants to gain citizenship. Given a lot of discrimination at the federal level, which has increased throughout the Trump administration, I'm fine with states trying to implement individual improvements. Understand that the immigrants you interact with on a daily basis may not necessarily represent all immigrants. You asked if I would be okay with my taxes going to support people who will never apply for citizenship or residency. It makes an assumption that they will never do that. If I were to say that I would only be okay with my taxes supporting immigrants on the condition that they must apply for citizenship or residency, that would be splitting hairs. I could talk about how the system is rigged against immigrants regardless of whether or not they would apply, but the shorter answer is that I legitimately do not care enough to make that distinction, so it's not really going to inspire any reservations about how my taxes benefit immigrants.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/government-must-release-migrant-children-detention-centers-because-coronavirus-judge-n1232328?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR3O2EgxZUobmVcaIIWxqxdHNA57ruxf9iHNRK6uhyYy8yEIOU2d8X_DpIY

We're finally making some progress. ICE must begin releasing children held in family detention centers for over 20 days.

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The problem we have is that we can't choose who our taxes help/support. But there should be a cutoff to when the government stops supporting them. Say for example, when they buy a vehicle that is north of $50k. I mean, at the point you're able to drive around in a car where the most basic model is around $50k MSRP, you should no longer be entitled to receive benefits. 

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That seems like an extremely specific example. We already have SNAP eligibility requirements, so I don't see the point in changing the threshold just because one random guy from wherever has a car that starts at $25k.

(Seriously, if you want to talk about an expensive car, at least look at how even the more expensive model is still south of $50k.)

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I was more pointing out that if these places run a legit investigation and sees that these folks are driving cars that are way out of their price range, it won't add up and they'll cut the benefits.

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On 6/27/2020 at 11:57 AM, Horu Ishayuki said:

I was more pointing out that if these places run a legit investigation and sees that these folks are driving cars that are way out of their price range, it won't add up and they'll cut the benefits.

Then that should be decided on a case by case basis. The individual is responsible, so don't try to make DACA itself the problem.

https://www.justsecurity.org/71279/trump-pushed-cia-to-give-intelligence-to-kremlin-while-taking-no-action-against-russia-arming-taliban/

Meanwhile, I'm sure you've heard by now that Trump knew about Russian bounties on American soldiers. Turns out that not only was Trump willing to turn a blind eye there, he also pushed the CIA to feed information to the Kremlin.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-trump-finances/u-s-supreme-court-rulings-due-thursday-on-trump-financial-records-cases-idUSKBN2492JH

SCOTUS will rule on whether Congress can access Trump's financial records. Note that these regard subpoenas issued to third parties, not to Trump himself.

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You do know that bounties are typically put out on criminals, right? Being military and coming from a military family, I want nothing more than to back the soldiers that have a bounty. But I have seen Putin petition the UN, NATO, US Congress, etc many, many times. So if he went to the extreme to place a bounty on a soldier, one has to wonder what said soldier has done to get under Putin's skin. I'm not siding with Putin by any means but I'm not going to side with a soldier just on the basis of "he's wearing green so he must be a good person" because the reality is that wearing that uniform doesn't make you a good person. It took me a long time to separate the uniform from the person wearing it. In that respect, I learned that I can respect the rank and hope that the person wearing it deserves my respect as well. I have a lot of respect for Putin because I can see the conviction in his eyes. He is a man that really loves his country and he would do anything in his power to avoid a war. So just ask yourself why a man as powerful as Putin would put a bounty on a soldier and petition the CIA to arrest said soldier.

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I agree that the uniform doesn't inherently make them good. However, the bounties were directly offered to the Taliban. Putin is a tyrant, and I'm not going to respect him because of his "conviction". He is a hostile leader, so I'm not going to suspect that the bounties were put on soldiers because they actually did something wrong. You really want me to believe that Putin seeking aid from the Taliban could be justified because the soldiers may be the real criminals here?

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The Taliban is still active. They are very specifically whom Russia has been arming, and who they gave the bounties too. Just because the military went after them doesn't mean they're completely destroyed.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/09/supreme-court-trump-tax-records.html

I'll admit I was worried about this one, but thankfully, by a 7-2 majority, SCOTUS has ruled that Trump's tax returns must be handed to Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance and a grand jury. While this does delay the House's ability to access the same material until the lower court rules, this still leaves Trump vulnerable. Important to note that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch also voted in favor of releasing these records.

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