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This is indeed one nasty fellow that has the potential to combine the strong effects of the materials, but only the part that affects your opponent, compared to Denko and Rai-Oh that affects both players. Also it can stop multiple summons at the cost of only 1 material, in contrast to Rai-Oh that has to tribute itself and only stops the special summon of exactly 1 monster. Considering that the strongest 2-material Rank 4 Xyz in existence is Bahamut Shark with 2600 ATK, this guy even tops that, although its not that much to be considered overpowered. I know that, in order to realize its full potential it needs specific materials, but my overall feeling of the card is that it's a little too powerful, but interesting, also good choice art-wise, it even combines with the blue lines on the Xyz card frame 🙂

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2 hours ago, Rayfield Shade said:

This is indeed one nasty fellow that has the potential to combine the strong effects of the materials, but only the part that affects your opponent, compared to Denko and Rai-Oh that affects both players. Also it can stop multiple summons at the cost of only 1 material, in contrast to Rai-Oh that has to tribute itself and only stops the special summon of exactly 1 monster. Considering that the strongest 2-material Rank 4 Xyz in existence is Bahamut Shark with 2600 ATK, this guy even tops that, although its not that much to be considered overpowered. I know that, in order to realize its full potential it needs specific materials, but my overall feeling of the card is that it's a little too powerful, but interesting, also good choice art-wise, it even combines with the blue lines on the Xyz card frame 🙂

Thanks for the reply. I wanted to make a rai-oh/sekka archetype and I feel this monster would be the boss monster.

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1 hour ago, Gogeta gt said:

Thanks for the reply. I wanted to make a rai-oh/sekka archetype and I feel this monster would be the boss monster.

You're welcome! I feel Thunder-type is kind of underused, so seeing an archetype based on those cards sounds promising. Looking forward to that.

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I personally think this is way to specific even under context that it will be used as archetype. You can make this a bit generic but you dont have to worry that it will be abused by thunder dragons. Most of the thunder dragon stuff have 5+ level so instead limited to thunder dragon you can just limit it to " Level 5 or higher Thunder Monster" kinda like Evilswarm. Also since the effect is pretty much straight copy of both Rai-Oh/Sekka you can simplified it by making it copy the Xyz Materials used to summoned it

My take probably looks like this:

2+ Level 4 Thunder Monster

Effects of Level 5 or higher Thunder Monster cannot be activate or applied. This card gain the effects of the Xyz Material attached to this card. If a Xyz Thunder Monster on the field would activate its own effect by sending cards from the field to GY (including itself). It can activate the effect by detaching 1 xyz material on that card instead 

 

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14 hours ago, Tinkerer said:

Do you think you could post the card text underneath the card?  It's pretty difficult to see.

2 Level 4 LIGHT Thunder-Type monsters.

Apply the following effects depending on the monsters used as xyz material to Special Summon this card;

* Thuder King Rai-Oh: Cards cannot be added from the Deck to your opponent's hand except by drawing them.

* Denko Sekka: Your opponent cannot Set Spell/Trap nor activate Spell/Trap that are on the field.

Once per turn when a monster(s) would be Summoned, OR when a Spell/Trap card, or monster effect, is activated that includes an effect that Special Summon a monster(s): You can detach 1 Xyz material from this card; negate the Summon or activation, and if you do, destroy that card. You cannot Summon or activate "Thunder Dragon" cards during the duel you Summon this card.

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12 hours ago, Dr. Jolly Glot the III said:

I personally think this is way to specific even under context that it will be used as archetype. You can make this a bit generic but you dont have to worry that it will be abused by thunder dragons. Most of the thunder dragon stuff have 5+ level so instead limited to thunder dragon you can just limit it to " Level 5 or higher Thunder Monster" kinda like Evilswarm. Also since the effect is pretty much straight copy of both Rai-Oh/Sekka you can simplified it by making it copy the Xyz Materials used to summoned it

My take probably looks like this:

2+ Level 4 Thunder Monster

Effects of Level 5 or higher Thunder Monster cannot be activate or applied. This card gain the effects of the Xyz Material attached to this card. If a Xyz Thunder Monster on the field would activate its own effect by sending cards from the field to GY (including itself). It can activate the effect by detaching 1 xyz material on that card instead 

 

I  restricted to not using  thunder dragons in general as a precaution if it receive more support on future.  Also this card does not gain effects  of the material attached to it, It gain different effects depending on the materials USED TO SUMMON it, so even if I detach rai-oh or sekka, the effect will still apply until it leave the field. Also It negate the summon of any monster(s) not only the thunder ones, thats why its so restrictive.

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6 hours ago, Gogeta gt said:

Also this card does not gain effects  of the material attached to it, It gain different effects depending on the materials USED TO SUMMON it, so even if I detach rai-oh or sekka, the effect will still apply until it leave the field. Also It negate the summon of any monster(s) not only the thunder ones, thats why its so restrictive.

I known the fact this does not "copied" effects like my take. Its just the thing i add on my suggestion to lessen the restrictive nature of the card while still pretty much locked into certain playstyle. The main point i bring is still stand, is cards that specifically counterplay an entire archetype by name interaction is both unheard of and way too specific. Cards doesnt have to be that specific to prevent abuse from another deck and on the flip side if an archetype is too xenophobic without internal powerplays then it will mostly unplayable due to advantage brick it cause. In this case despite being powerful stun card Rai-Oh and Sekka is not exactly searchable so most of the time you only end up with this card as plain monster summon negation 

Speaking of summon negation. I just realize its a bit op. Its almost solemn judgement but unlike, say..Evolzar Laggia. You can at least use this "twice" on different opponent turns. This kind of power is too cheap for 2 mat R4 with 2700 stat 

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7 minutes ago, Dr. Jolly Glot the III said:

I known the fact this does not "copied" effects like my take. Its just the thing i add on my suggestion to lessen the restrictive nature of the card while still pretty much locked into certain playstyle. The main point i bring is still stand, is cards that specifically counterplay an entire archetype by name interaction is both unheard of and way too specific. Cards doesnt have to be that specific to prevent abuse from another deck and on the flip side if an archetype is too xenophobic without internal powerplays then it will mostly unplayable due to advantage brick it cause. In this case despite being powerful stun card Rai-Oh and Sekka is not exactly searchable so most of the time you only end up with this card as plain monster summon negation 

Speaking of summon negation. I just realize its a bit op. Its almost solemn judgement but unlike, say..Evolzar Laggia. You can at least use this "twice" on different opponent turns. This kind of power is too cheap for 2 mat R4 with 2700 stat 

Despite the thunder dragon restriction, the card is still restrictive enough to be somewhat fair, so I dont think the negation effect is that op. The card was made to be used in hunders so it will have at least one of the two effects since you can just summon pa/ma and then summon rai-oh/sekka, then overlay both into this card. and in hunders rai-oh and sekka are searchable by brohunder.

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I think it would be a perfectly fine card without the additional effects from overlaying Thunder King Rai-Oh or Denko Sekka, especially with so many ATK points.

If you want to keep them, though, I would set an ATK-based condition: "If at least one of the Xyz-Materials had 1700 ATK or more, then... . If at least one of the Xyz-Materials had 1900 ATK or more, then... ."
It just seems more elegant to me, and also less restrictive deck-building-wise.

Other than that, I would make the statics affect both players, like the original Effect Monsters. This way they would feel less unfair, and you can even remove the Thunder Dragon clause, since many of those effects wouldn't work well with Thunder Slayer anyway.

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On 1/21/2020 at 3:31 PM, Scarman3317 said:

I think it would be a perfectly fine card without the additional effects from overlaying Thunder King Rai-Oh or Denko Sekka, especially with so many ATK points.

If you want to keep them, though, I would set an ATK-based condition: "If at least one of the Xyz-Materials had 1700 ATK or more, then... . If at least one of the Xyz-Materials had 1900 ATK or more, then... ."
It just seems more elegant to me, and also less restrictive deck-building-wise.

Other than that, I would make the statics affect both players, like the original Effect Monsters. This way they would feel less unfair, and you can even remove the Thunder Dragon clause, since many of those effects wouldn't work well with Thunder Slayer anyway.

Sure, however it still more fair then altergeist and the meta. Also I wanted this monster to be the boss monster of the rai-oh sekka archetype I want to make in the future as long as I find inspiration for it.

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I hate to sound like the bad guy here, but what are you trying to accomplish by posting this if you're not willing to accept critique?

The points everyone brought up are valid. The the very least, there is a sense that something is "off" about this card since every person whose commented on it has noted discomfort with at least one aspect of the card.

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On 1/12/2020 at 7:57 PM, Gogeta gt said:

My custom thunder support (not for thunder dragons)

Thunder Slayer.png

I think I found what's off about this card.

If both Thunder King and Denko are used, shuts down cards like White Stone of Legend and Sangan while completely shutting down the back row as well. I think this is likely the discomfort everyone is expressing. Now negating summons  only works twice but it comes with the cost of losing the effects that keep you in control. The last effect would likely never be used in all reality since equipping this with Metalmorph would put it 3000 and it would gain 50% of whatever it attacked on top of that. You just need to set up cards to keep it safe from monster effects. Albeit, this card with its conditional material effects alone is pretty broken already.

 

Think about it this way. This is a 2700 ATK monster that essentially does the work of Jinzo, Spell Canceller and Thunder Dragon Colossus. Do you really think somebody would give up that much control as long as they can keep this beast safe?

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1 hour ago, Horu Ishayuki said:

I think I found what's off about this card.

If both Thunder King and Denko are used, shuts down cards like White Stone of Legend and Sangan while completely shutting down the back row as well. I think this is likely the discomfort everyone is expressing. Now negating summons  only works twice but it comes with the cost of losing the effects that keep you in control. The last effect would likely never be used in all reality since equipping this with Metalmorph would put it 3000 and it would gain 50% of whatever it attacked on top of that. You just need to set up cards to keep it safe from monster effects. Albeit, this card with its conditional material effects alone is pretty broken already.

 

Think about it this way. This is a 2700 ATK monster that essentially does the work of Jinzo, Spell Canceller and Thunder Dragon Colossus. Do you really think somebody would give up that much control as long as they can keep this beast safe?

I second this just now since i just realizing it too. It might be a hurdle to to get its full potential but even with 1 of its matching material on top of Laggia Negation and 2700, this card is quite OP

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