Suum Cuique Tribuere

[CrabHelmet]

Is this the coveted perfect meta?

 

There is no perfect meta; the game is too flawed to the core for that. Nor is this likely to be the best banlist that can be humanly constructed with the current card pool.

 

Call it a "superior" meta. In the sense that it's superior to Konami's format' date=' and the majority of user-created formats posted on this board.

 

Why Dandelion at 3?

 

The same reason for every other card currently at 3: Why not?

[「tea.leaf」]

Is this the coveted perfect meta?

 

There is no perfect meta; the game is too flawed to the core for that. Nor is this likely to be the best banlist that can be humanly constructed with the current card pool.

 

Call it a "superior" meta. In the sense that it's superior to Konami's format' date=' and the majority of user-created formats posted on this board.

 

Why Dandelion at 3?

 

The same reason for every other card currently at 3: Why not?

 

What was the reason for it be 1 to begin with?

[CrabHelmet]

Is this the coveted perfect meta?

 

There is no perfect meta; the game is too flawed to the core for that. Nor is this likely to be the best banlist that can be humanly constructed with the current card pool.

 

Call it a "superior" meta. In the sense that it's superior to Konami's format' date=' and the majority of user-created formats posted on this board.

 

Why Dandelion at 3?

 

The same reason for every other card currently at 3: Why not?

 

What was the reason for it be 1 to begin with?

 

On Konami's list? Because OCG people complained about it. Actually, that goes for most things on Konami's list.

 

On other custom banlists? I don't really see how it provides a benefit at 1 that cancels out any damage that it might do at 3. The fact that it's even more loose than Sangan or Night Assailant in terms of from where it can be sent to the graveyard, combined with the fact that it can't miss the timing, is probably the heart of the matter; perhaps it was thought that three of these plus Night Assailant would trivialize discard costs (and, due to its effect, tributes too), or that it made generating Tribute Fodder while blocking attacks too easy, but I can neither concoct nor remember any convincing argument for sending it to 1 (although some would find ipse dixit convincing, but that's hardly the sort of logic we should be using here).

[Exiro]

And what Synchros are we trying to avoid with the banning of Summon Priest?

 

Summon Priest

[DARK/Spellcaster/Effect/4/800/1600]

This card cannot be Tributed. If this monster is Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned' date=' switch it to Defense Position. By sending this card you control, one Spell Card in your hand, and one Level 3 Tuner monster in your deck to the graveyard, destroy all cards on the field.[/i']

 

Black Rose Dragon, for one. If Summon Priest's text explicitly said that, it would have been banned in a heartbeat. So, here we at the very least have a kill-SP-to-save-BRD or kill-BRD-to-save-SP scenario.

 

However, note that Summon Priest can be used to instantly summon the majority of Synchro Monsters (Rescue Cat, at least, is restricted to Level 6 and below), and that as more and more Synchro Monsters are released, the probability of it coming into conflict with another Synchro Monster becomes greater and greater. Eventually, we are almost certain to encounter a kill-one-card-to-save-two-cards scenario.

 

Another less direct problem with Summon Priest is that it makes a mockery of the regular Synchro Summoning rules by being able to transform (at the cost of one Spell) into virtually any Synchro monster. (The main ones that it can't pull are Mist Wyrm, which needs 2 non-Tuners; cards like Light End Dragon with restrictions on the non-Tuners; and cards like Junk Warrior with restrictions on the Tuner that make the levels add up wrong.)

 

But wait!

 

This card cannot be Tributed. If this monster is Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned' date=' switch it to Defense Position. Once per turn, by discarding a Spell Card from your hand, search your Deck for a Level 4 monster and Special Summon it. That monster cannot attack this turn.

[/quote']

 

That is the real effect. Note that it doesn't say a Level 4 or lower monster, but just a Level 4 monster.

 

If this translation is correct, then it can only summon Level 8 Synchros with it's effect. In my opinion, this doesn't give you so many options that it's bannable.

 

Also, I assume you didn't put Rescue Cat in this virtual combo, because if so, you would be able to summon Mist Worm.

 

And yes, if you use Summon Priest with Rescue Cat, you can choose almost any Synchro Monster, but you'll also have to fill your deck with cards that are mainly needed in the deck only, and are dead draws in the hand. This makes it balanced, in my opinion.

 

So, unban Summon Priest?

 

Hmmm. When I looked it up when I got back here, it seems that I found a mistranslation. Either that, or I misread it, which is also possible. >_>

 

That makes things more interesting. On the one hand, the card still has quite a field nuke effect:

 

Summon Priest

[DARK/Spellcaster/Effect/4/800/1600]

This card cannot be Tributed. If this monster is Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned, switch it to Defense Position. Once per turn, by discarding one Spell Card from your hand and sending one "Rescue Cat" and one "X-Saber Airbellum" from your deck to your graveyard, destroy all cards on the field.

 

It strikes me that, were this the actual text of the card, it would probably be banworthy, despite the deck dedication and dead draw risk involved. However, this is not the actual text of the card; rather, although only one card is needed to initiate it, it is the result of interaction between four cards (although it could be considered a one-card combo in the sense that only one specific card is needed in your control to initiate it).

 

Now, which of these four do we kill? X-Saber Airbellum is clearly an innocent; its only "crime" is that it can be searched by Rescue Cat. So it stays at 3. That leaves us three possibilities: Summon Priest, Rescue Cat, and Black Rose Dragon.

 

Now, on one hand, Black Rose Dragon could be considered the problem. It's the one that has a field nuke effect, and, quite frankly, is always going to have a field nuke effect no matter how it is Synchro Summoned. Now, unlike a complete reset button, a field nuke is not inherently harmful if it is costly or difficult enough (you'll notice that, for example, I've left Beast King Barbaros and Levia-Dragon - Daedalus legal), but even without Summon Priest and/or Rescue Cat, Black Rose Dragon still wouldn't be exceptionally difficult to summon - but at least it wouldn't be a one-card combo.

 

On the other hand, with the exception of Synchro Monsters that have additional requirements on their summoning - requiring a specific Tuner or imposing restrictions on the non-Tuners - leaving both Rescue Cat and Summon Priest legal would still allow Summon Priest to transform into virtually any Synchro Monster at the cost of a single Spell Card; eventually, either the future Synchro Monsters would cause another conflict of this nature, or the future Synchro Monsters would be underpowered to the point where Summon Priest is the only acceptable strategy. (The third possibility is that Konami releases more powerful Synchros with increasingly specific summoning requirements, as they did with Fusions.)

 

We are aware of the deck dedication involved, the monsters that need to be sent from the deck to the graveyard, and the exceptions to what Synchro Monsters Summon Priest can summon, so I'll take them to be understood here. With both Summon Priest and Rescue Cat legal, this is what Summon Priest's effect does:

 

Summon Priest

[DARK/Spellcaster/Effect/4/800/1600]

This card cannot be Tributed. If this monster is Normal Summoned or Flip Summoned, switch it to Defense Position. Once per turn, by discarding a Spell Card from your hand, select and activate one of the following effects:

• Special Summon one Level 6 or lower Synchro Monster from your Extra Deck. (This Special Summon is treated as a Synchro Summon.)
  
• Send this card to the graveyard. Special Summon one Level 7 Synchro Monster from your Extra Deck. (This Special Summon is treated as a Synchro Summon.) You may Special Summon 1 Level 3 or lower Beast-Type monster from your deck. If you do, then it is destroyed during the End Phase.
  
• Send this card to the graveyard. Special Summon one Level 8 or higher Synchro Monster from your Extra Deck. (This Special Summon is treated as a Synchro Summon.)
  

If this were the actual text of the card, it would be banned in a heartbeat, even if Black Rose Dragon didn't exist. The thing is that Summon Priest requires deck dedication and a combo with Rescue Cat in order to do all this, and even if their combo is deemed unacceptable, it is difficult to tell which should be banned.

 

Now, is this all that different from Metamorphosis? Yes and no. On the one hand, they can both Special Summon a monster of the appropriate type that doesn't have some sort of protection ("This card cannot be Special Summoned except by Fusion Summon" in Metamorphosis's case; requiring a specific Tuner or imposing restrictions on the non-Tuners in Summon Priest's case). Both require some sort of deck dedication; Metamorphosis is more splashable, but in order to be used effectively, the deck needs to work to accommodate it. However, Metamorphosis requires both Metamorphosis in your hand and a monster on your field of exactly the right level - prboably a level higher than 4 - while Summon Priest just requires you to have Summon Priest (a Level 4 monster) on your field and any Spell Card at all in your hand. The difference in ease of use is significant. In fact, a one-card combo to Special Summon a monster from the Extra Deck is reminiscient not so much of Metamorphosis as of Cyber-Stein. (As the pool of Fusions and Synchros are different, these comparisons are largely irrelevant, but I thought I may as well bring them up before somebody else does.)

 

To complicate matters further, Summon Priest alone can only summon Level 8 Synchros, while Rescue Cat can only summon Level 6 or below Synchros; since it's Level 7, Black Rose Dragon cannot be reached by either of them alone. Black Rose Dragon isn't difficult to summon compared to its field-wipe. On the other hand, the combination of Summon Priest and Rescue Cat might be unacceptable even without Black Rose Dragon. If one of them were banned, it might be feasible to save Black Rose Dragon, but banning Black Rose Dragon might not make it feasible to save both Summon Priest and Rescue Cat...

 

Honestly, this is a difficult decision. I'm leaning towards banning Black Rose Dragon, then waiting to see what Konami does in terms of card design to decide if Summon Priest or Rescue Cat needs any list attention.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well, let's see.

Summon Priest basically turns a Spell Card into another effect.

 

A spell card that Special Summons a LV4-LV6 Synchro Monster looks broken to me. That's like Instant Fusion without any limits.

 

A spell card that turns 1 monster you control into 1 LV3- Beast-Type monster and 1 LV7 Synchro Monster, from which the Beast gets destroyed at the end of the turn... It's less broken.

However, it just gives too easy access to the LV7 monsters and allows you to abuse them. A 2-card combo to nuke the field or getting X-Saber Urbellum + X-Saber Airbellum can be deadly. If they both hit (Urbellum inflicts Battle Damage while the opp has 4- cards in hand, maybe destroying the opponent's last monster that was in atk mode, and Airbellum attacks directly), then the opponent loses 2 cards in his hand, and one of them will be redrawn next turn. Both combos are broken. If we want avoid these actions, we'll have to ban both Black Rose Dragon and Urbellum, while they both still seem somewhat balanced to me, as long as you can't access them so easily.

 

Last, there's a spell card that turns 1 monster you control to a LV8+ Synchro monster. That's 2 cards for 1 monster, which is exactly the same trade as with most Synchro Summons. The difference is that you use 1 Spell Card and 1 monster card this time, instead of 2 monsters. This looks balanced to me, nothing has to be done against such play.

 

Now, let's take a look at Rescue Cat alone, without Summon Priest. It's effect is basically this:

• Tribute this card to Special Summon 1 LV4-LV6 Synchro monster.
  

1 card to perform a Synchro Summon instead of 2 is already suspicious. Let's take a look at what it can bring out. Goyo Guardian, not only a decent beatstick (imagine a LV4 monster with 2800 atk, wouldn't that already be broken?), but also an effect that can steal any monster destroyed by it in battle. A monster with 2800 atk destroys a lot in battle.

You can also pick Ally of Justice Catasor. Now, even if the opponent had a beatstick bigger than 2800 atk, you can destroy it anyway as long as the monster is not DARK. All in the form of a LV4 monster.

Are the Synchros the problem or Rescue Cat? If you ask me, it's the same case as with Black Rose Dragon/X-Saber Urbellum. The monsters are fine because it requires 2 monsters to form it, but with Rescue Cat, it only requires Rescue Cat.

 

So, if you think that the drawback of filling your deck with beasts randomly and getting dead draws is not enough of a drawback (personally, I think it is, but Japan's meta before the Sept. 1 changes proved otherwise. I think I just suck at Rescue Cat Synchro.), you should ban Rescue Cat, because only the actions Rescue Cat can do and the actions Summon Priest can do with Rescue Cat are broken. The last effect of Summon Priest now also gets weaker. You can only pick a LV8 monster, and nothing higher.

 

I hope this convinced you.

Ban Rescue Cat.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Rescue Cat (X-Saber Airbellum and various others beasts in ranging levels in deck) + Foolish Burial (Quilbolt Hedgehog in deck) = 2 card combo that gets out any non tuner specific synchro from levels 4 through 8 at the cost of a normal summon.

[zelda_tp_fan]

I'm not sure what I think about this list...

 

on one hand, it would probably be for the best of the meta game (I wouldn't know... I've never dueled in a tournament or anything like that... ) and who knows, this list might make it so that deck types that aren't currently viable... more viable? sorry... lost my train of thought there XD (Now that I think about it, train of thought doesn't really make any sense... oh well )

 

on the other hand, the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one, or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[CrabHelmet]

Hmm...I think Exiro has a point here. 2800 ATK isn't a huge issue on its own (we don't need list attention for Lonefire Blossom = Tytannial, Princess of Camellias), but Rescue Cat's self-transforming effect provides significantly more advantage for free, and basically invalidates any other method of summoning Level 4-6 Synchros - a one-card combo that doesn't even have a discard cost and that can be recycled by Limit Reverse cannot be topped.

 

Now all that remains is whether BRD should remain legal. Since any method that could possibly summon it is at the very least a two-card combo (for example, Marauding Captain plus a Level 4 Tuner), I don't see its effect as being as big a problem without the Rescue Priest combo.

 

Summon Priest is going to 3; Rescue Cat is going to 0.

 

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?

[/quote']

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example, I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

[zelda_tp_fan]

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?[/quote']

 

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example' date=' I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.[/quote']

 

True... Though it would be weird in the beginning (you have to admit, not having cards like sangan and premature burial/monster reborn/Call of the haunted in your deck would feel pretty weird ) I'm sure that I would get used to it...

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

 

understood... I was just asking since I'm sure that this list would kill some of your decks...

 

I've got another question, Why does breaker need to remain banned? I mean, It's a great card, but is it really so good that it needs to be banned? I was never sure about this, though I suppose in a slowed down format, the usefulness of breaker would make it ban worthy... I dunno...

[CrabHelmet]

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?[/quote']

 

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example' date=' I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.[/quote']

 

True... Though it would be weird in the beginning (you have to admit, not having cards like sangan and premature burial/monster reborn/Call of the haunted in your deck would feel pretty weird ) I'm sure that I would get used to it...

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

 

understood... I was just asking since I'm sure that this list would kill some of your decks...

 

I've got another question, Why does breaker need to remain banned? I mean, It's a great card, but is it really so good that it needs to be banned? I was never sure about this, though I suppose in a slowed down format, the usefulness of breaker would make it ban worthy... I dunno...

 

For one thing, Breaker would be an auto-include in virtually every deck, and being an auto-include in virtually every deck, you need to consider what widespread use of him would do to the game. With Breaker running around everywhere, non-chainables becomes unplayable. 3 MST does not have this effect, for two reasons:

 

1) Most people wouldn't run 3 MST anyhow. Most people would run Breaker.

2) MST can pre-negate a chainable trap, since it is Quick-Play, and thus hits all traps without discriminating. Breaker is Ignition, so it only harms non-chainables.

 

The difference between Breaker and Lyla is that Breaker is essentially a +2; a +1 from killing a spell or trap, and a +1 from running over an opponent's monster (1600 ATK kills most Level 4 or below monsters); if the opponent has no monster, he swings for 1/5 LP instead. Lyla not only can't attack but also can be killed by anything next turn, with only 200 DEF. Because of that, Lyla would not be run like Breaker, and thus would not have Breaker's effect on non-chainables - even though she has priority and Breaker does not.

[tonisanoob]

hmmmmm

 

i dont want to go along with everyone and say i liek it

 

i liek a lot of it, BUT

 

heraklinos somehow isnt banned...

 

superalloy beast i also dont understand

 

also temple of the kings should be banned imo at least combines with tt and reckless greed and jar of greed and stuff

 

also tt is unlimited thts bad o_O

 

and i still think brain control should be limited

 

as it just makes monarchs CRAZY in this format its alright at 1 but at 3 imo

 

sorl can be unlimited tho :S

[CrabHelmet]

heraklinos somehow isnt banned...

 

I found no reason to ban him - especially since Gyzarus can no longer pop out and leave a Heraklinos behind.

 

superalloy beast i also dont understand

 

Gigaplant loop. Out of the essential cards involved - Gigaplant' date=' Raptinus, and a bunch of burn cards - I found that Raptinus had the least non-OTK use, and got their by interfering with the otherwise-balanced mechanics of the Gemini.

 

also temple of the kings should be banned imo at least combines with tt and reckless greed and jar of greed and stuff

 

Combining cards with other cards is what the game is about. I know this, because Yugi told Joey that it was true.

 

Prove that the combination is unacceptable and harms the game.

 

also tt is unlimited thts bad o_O

 

Prove it.

 

and i still think brain control should be limited

 

The fact that it only hits face-ups balances it.

 

as it just makes monarchs CRAZY in this format its alright at 1 but at 3 imo

 

Remember that Monarchs no longer have Treeborn Frog to give them infinite tributes' date=' nor do they have Disk Commander to make their tributes more-costless-than-free.

 

sorl can be unlimited tho :S

 

3 SORL is retarded one-sided stall.

[zelda_tp_fan]

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?[/quote']

 

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example' date=' I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.[/quote']

 

True... Though it would be weird in the beginning (you have to admit, not having cards like sangan and premature burial/monster reborn/Call of the haunted in your deck would feel pretty weird ) I'm sure that I would get used to it...

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

 

understood... I was just asking since I'm sure that this list would kill some of your decks...

 

I've got another question, Why does breaker need to remain banned? I mean, It's a great card, but is it really so good that it needs to be banned? I was never sure about this, though I suppose in a slowed down format, the usefulness of breaker would make it ban worthy... I dunno...

 

For one thing, Breaker would be an auto-include in virtually every deck, and being an auto-include in virtually every deck, you need to consider what widespread use of him would do to the game. With Breaker running around everywhere, non-chainables becomes unplayable. 3 MST does not have this effect, for two reasons:

 

1) Most people wouldn't run 3 MST anyhow. Most people would run Breaker.

2) MST can pre-negate a chainable trap, since it is Quick-Play, and thus hits all traps without discriminating. Breaker is Ignition, so it only harms non-chainables.

 

The difference between Breaker and Lyla is that Breaker is essentially a +2; a +1 from killing a spell or trap, and a +1 from running over an opponent's monster (1600 ATK kills most Level 4 or below monsters); if the opponent has no monster, he swings for 1/5 LP instead. Lyla not only can't attack but also can be killed by anything next turn, with only 200 DEF. Because of that, Lyla would not be run like Breaker, and thus would not have Breaker's effect on non-chainables - even though she has priority and Breaker does not.

 

Very good point, thanks for answering my questions, I don't think I have any other question other than this: do you think konami will ever make a ban-list similar to this one?

[CrabHelmet]

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?[/quote']

 

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example' date=' I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.[/quote']

 

True... Though it would be weird in the beginning (you have to admit, not having cards like sangan and premature burial/monster reborn/Call of the haunted in your deck would feel pretty weird ) I'm sure that I would get used to it...

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

 

understood... I was just asking since I'm sure that this list would kill some of your decks...

 

I've got another question, Why does breaker need to remain banned? I mean, It's a great card, but is it really so good that it needs to be banned? I was never sure about this, though I suppose in a slowed down format, the usefulness of breaker would make it ban worthy... I dunno...

 

For one thing, Breaker would be an auto-include in virtually every deck, and being an auto-include in virtually every deck, you need to consider what widespread use of him would do to the game. With Breaker running around everywhere, non-chainables becomes unplayable. 3 MST does not have this effect, for two reasons:

 

1) Most people wouldn't run 3 MST anyhow. Most people would run Breaker.

2) MST can pre-negate a chainable trap, since it is Quick-Play, and thus hits all traps without discriminating. Breaker is Ignition, so it only harms non-chainables.

 

The difference between Breaker and Lyla is that Breaker is essentially a +2; a +1 from killing a spell or trap, and a +1 from running over an opponent's monster (1600 ATK kills most Level 4 or below monsters); if the opponent has no monster, he swings for 1/5 LP instead. Lyla not only can't attack but also can be killed by anything next turn, with only 200 DEF. Because of that, Lyla would not be run like Breaker, and thus would not have Breaker's effect on non-chainables - even though she has priority and Breaker does not.

 

Very good point, thanks for answering my questions, I don't think I have any other question other than this: do you think konami will ever make a ban-list similar to this one?

 

Never. As we've already seen, Konami's goal is to make each set more broken than the last so that sets keep selling more and more, and a list that removed cards that damage the game would hurt sales.

[zelda_tp_fan]

on the other hand' date=' the list gets rid of alot of things that I've grown accustomed too and would make it... how can I put this... weird?[/quote']

 

 

Konami has a habit of making overpowered cards and then keeping them around simply because people are used to them; for example' date=' I don't think it has ever banned Monster Reborn, Premature Burial, and Call of the Haunted all at the same time, since people are so used to costless generic recursion that they feel they deserve it.[/quote']

 

True... Though it would be weird in the beginning (you have to admit, not having cards like sangan and premature burial/monster reborn/Call of the haunted in your deck would feel pretty weird ) I'm sure that I would get used to it...

 

I've got a question for you crab helmet. Would you actually like to see the next ban list look like this one' date=' or is this just what you think needs to be done to make the meta better?

[/quote']

 

Compared to how awful Konami's lists usually are, I would be delighted if this was the next list.

 

understood... I was just asking since I'm sure that this list would kill some of your decks...

 

I've got another question, Why does breaker need to remain banned? I mean, It's a great card, but is it really so good that it needs to be banned? I was never sure about this, though I suppose in a slowed down format, the usefulness of breaker would make it ban worthy... I dunno...

 

For one thing, Breaker would be an auto-include in virtually every deck, and being an auto-include in virtually every deck, you need to consider what widespread use of him would do to the game. With Breaker running around everywhere, non-chainables becomes unplayable. 3 MST does not have this effect, for two reasons:

 

1) Most people wouldn't run 3 MST anyhow. Most people would run Breaker.

2) MST can pre-negate a chainable trap, since it is Quick-Play, and thus hits all traps without discriminating. Breaker is Ignition, so it only harms non-chainables.

 

The difference between Breaker and Lyla is that Breaker is essentially a +2; a +1 from killing a spell or trap, and a +1 from running over an opponent's monster (1600 ATK kills most Level 4 or below monsters); if the opponent has no monster, he swings for 1/5 LP instead. Lyla not only can't attack but also can be killed by anything next turn, with only 200 DEF. Because of that, Lyla would not be run like Breaker, and thus would not have Breaker's effect on non-chainables - even though she has priority and Breaker does not.

 

Very good point, thanks for answering my questions, I don't think I have any other question other than this: do you think konami will ever make a ban-list similar to this one?

 

Never. As we've already seen, Konami's goal is to make each set more broken than the last so that sets keep selling more and more, and a list that removed cards that damage the game would hurt sales.

 

Good point, thanks for the answer

[Pharaoh_Atem]

*Prove* the placement of Ou-Kyuu no Teppeki.

 

*Prove* the placement of Allure of Darkness.

 

*Prove* the placement of Nobleman of Crossout.

 

*Prove* the placement of Rescue Cat.

 

*Prove* the placement of Superalloy Beast Raptinus.

 

Note that your Synchro-related credibility is effectively shot because of your position in regard to Dandelion and Brain Control.

[tonisanoob]

urrrn traps arnt ment to be activated the turn they are drawn or just having them in your hand thus screwing up game mechanics

 

tt a 3 punished just summonign a monster(s) at all

 

well using brain control (with its sole purpose is to give you your opponents monster for a tribute) makes monarch crazy along with tt at 3 smashing ground and 3 the prospect of ever having more than one monster in this format seems rather farfeched

 

and you say tht brain control only tartets face ups, you say tht like most of the time monsters are played face down :S

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Note that your Synchro-related credibility is effectively shot because of your position in regard to Dandelion and Brain Control.

 

What does Dandelion have to do with Synchros? I was under the impression that Tokens can't be used for Synchro Summons. Unless there is a less direct relationship between Dandelion and Synchros that I'm not understanding.

[Exiro]

Note that your Synchro-related credibility is effectively shot because of your position in regard to Dandelion and Brain Control.

 

What does Dandelion have to do with Synchros? I was under the impression that Tokens can't be used for Synchro Summons. Unless there is a less direct relationship between Dandelion and Synchros that I'm not understanding.

 

You can use Tokens in a Synchro Summon.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

Note that your Synchro-related credibility is effectively shot because of your position in regard to Dandelion and Brain Control.

 

What does Dandelion have to do with Synchros? I was under the impression that Tokens can't be used for Synchro Summons. Unless there is a less direct relationship between Dandelion and Synchros that I'm not understanding.

 

You can use Tokens in a Synchro Summon.

 

I see. Must have been taking the Synchro Summoning rules too literally. Nevermind.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

You could still use Summon Priest to bring out Rescue Cat to Tribute it for that X-Saber, then send Summon Priest and the X-Saber to the grave to summon the rose dragony man of doom.

 

Rescue Cat should be banned if you don't want floods of monsters. It allows for many combos that include beasts, including its own OTK, which I believe is actually slowed down. But it's still an OTK.

 

And if you're worried about interactions between cards, Six Sams and Gladiator Beasts are notorious for stopping players through combos of their own. Summoning three Samurais in one turn and strictly limiting your opponent's moves, or summoning a big fusion that destroys the field and does damage before swapping out for 2 monsters, and a fusion that can freeze your opponent's turn entirely and keep them from making the field even.

 

I know you have covered some of these so far, but I'm just trying to show all aspects of how these cards can be used.

[Tickle Me Emo]

its good' date=' but theres a question I got. Whys CyDra both banned and unlimited?

[/quote']

 

Because I'm stupid. >_> It's banned.

 

I so wish I had the room to sig that.

 

this list says "Glad Format!!!!" Slowing down everything else but banning gyzarus... Glads will still be fast and will still dominate.

Maybe they will' date=' maybe they won't. However, doing well is not equivalent to being worthy of list attention. Otherwise, we'd just ban everything until Toons became the top deck - and then we'd ban Toons, since, being the top deck, they'd be overpowered by that (unusual) definition.[/quote']

 

Well didnt you say you were trying to stop the whole "win in 4 turns" thing, or so it seems here?

[Pharaoh_Atem]

I'm just trying to show all aspects of how these cards can be used.

 

For future reference, all folks with an educated opinion on the topic matter already know.

 

Well-reasoned arguments are what benefit folks most, not a course review in what we know.

 

To be honest, all I'm saying here is that you pretty-much wasted about 15 seconds typing that post. While it may seem a waste to tell you, I'm spending 20 seconds in order to advise you not to waste other batches of seconds.

 

If you've a well-reasoned argument, we'd be glad to hear it.

[.:pyramid:.]

LIMITED

 

Category B) The card cannot remain at 3 due to an unacceptable interaction with another copy of itself; at 1, however, it cannot interact with itself, and thus can remain legal. Example: Night Assailant.

 

this means that you should limit

 

1. Solar Flare Dragon

2. Marauding Captain

3. Magician's Valkyria

 

the reason is why these cards unacceptable interaction with another copy of itself is because a card with can interact with another copy of itself will use the other copy of itself because it will achieve the best results.

[The Dark One]

You're implying that those card's self-interactions are unacceptable.

[.:pyramid:.]

well they create when used together they create an environment where your opponent can't attack for a little cost. plus i want crab to abbreviate whether he means "unacceptable interaction" to be unlimited interaction or something else.