Everyone who posts in this topic is gay.

[Frunk]

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

[Prince Poison]

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

Therefore it will never work.

The flaw may truly be in the human nature, but the fact is:

It will not work.

[Красивая Ведьма]

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

 

So, your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

---

There isn't an ethical flaw in the theory of communism. The flaw is it in practice. It just doesn't work well. Can everyone live in harmony under the government? The theory is fine' date=' but it is flawed when implemented. The main flaw in communism is that it prohibits free and independent thought. Just like a fundamentalism or a theocracy only without a deity at the head of the propaganda.

[/quote']

 

That, again, is a problem of humanity, not Communism.

 

Communism is a form of government used for humanity. So if humanity has a problem with the government form then it is also the problem of the form of government. If the governing style doesn't work then it is the problem of the type be it communism, fundamentalism, etc.

[Cyber Altair]

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

 

So, your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

 

Brainwashing and educating are two different things.

 

I'm pretty sure if we make people realize the bless everyone would live in if the economy is destroyed and where every single person is equal and gets exactly the same. Such a life is the perfect one.

[Красивая Ведьма]

So' date=' your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

[/quote']

 

Brainwashing and educating are two different things.

 

I'm pretty sure if we make people realize the bless everyone would live in if the economy is destroyed and where every single person is equal and gets exactly the same. Such a life is the perfect one.

 

People don't want to be equal they want to be better. I don't think that a lazy and ignorant person should be equal to a hard working intelligent person. The economy provides reward for those who become a success and punishes failure. Yes, I know sometimes the system let’s people fall, but I would rather that than a communist regime. I don’t go through the education and difficulty my advanced classes to be the same as everyone else. I do it to be better. A society in which everyone is out to improve their own lives is fair. Some strong people survive and become successes others will stay the same. Some unlucky few will become poor. The main reasons for poverty in the United States are drugs, lack of education, and medical bills. If we would instate Universal Health Care in the U.S. then we would have a closer to perfect society. Perfection doesn’t exist but we must try to get as close as possible. Communism is a failed attempt at a perfect society. Democracy succeeded and Communism failed.

[Synchronized]

The main issue I have with Communism is that equality isn't always equality. Someone that sits around at home and does nothing should not be considered equal to someone that works their a*s off for hours on end, trying to make a living for their family. It's not that Communism is a terrible idea, it's that Human Nature prevents it from actually working. Every single person is selfish in one or more ways, and there are always going to be people that try and take the easy way out. As long as something like that exists, Communism is improbable.

[HORUS]

The main issue I have with Communism is that equality isn't always equality. Someone that sits around at home and does nothing should not be considered equal to someone that works their a*s off for hours on end' date=' trying to make a living for their family. It's not that Communism is a terrible idea, it's that Human Nature prevents it from actually working. Every single person is selfish in one or more ways, and there are always going to be people that try and take the easy way out. As long as something like that exists, Communism is improbable.

[/quote']

 

And in capitalism, people like Paris Hilton never do any work and are somehow famous and given attention and rich.

[Synchronized]

' pid='2313357' dateline='1244494459']

The main issue I have with Communism is that equality isn't always equality. Someone that sits around at home and does nothing should not be considered equal to someone that works their a*s off for hours on end' date=' trying to make a living for their family. It's not that Communism is a terrible idea, it's that Human Nature prevents it from actually working. Every single person is selfish in one or more ways, and there are always going to be people that try and take the easy way out. As long as something like that exists, Communism is improbable.

[/quote']

 

And in capitalism, people like Paris Hilton never do any work and are somehow famous and given attention and rich.

 

I wasn't so much referring to Celebrities. Her father, however, owns tons of hotels and that's clearly how she gets all her money.

[Ecoboy1324]

Man should not work just for social standing. he should work for the pride of what he is doing and to serve his community. Yes a man can sit on his a** all day and not do anything productive to the community and if that kind of life suits him then so be it. But if a man wants and has the drive to do something productive it should be because he enjoys his work not because its required by the society to become a doctor or a lawyer just to scrape a living, Which is exactly the problem with the capitalist theory. Man should never control anything as man is partial to his needs. Rather the government should control the man as the Government looks out for everyone in the whole. It is the only way we will ever secure any sort of real freedom and prosperity.

[Красивая Ведьма]

Man should not work just for social standing. he should work for the pride of what he is doing and to serve his community. Yes a man can sit on his a** all day and not do anything productive to the community and if that kind of life suits him then so be it. But if a man wants and has the drive to do something productive it should be because he enjoys his work not because its required by the society to become a doctor or a lawyer just to scrape a living' date=' Which is exactly the problem with the capitalist theory. Man should never control anything as man is partial to his needs. Rather the government should control the man as the Government looks out for everyone in the whole. It is the only way we will ever secure any sort of real freedom and prosperity.

[/quote']

 

The government will do what it needs to do for the needs of the government. Plus, the government is made up of men who will do what they want for their own needs. Real freedom is when we can look out for ourselves that way we can ensure our security. The people should control the government not the other way around. That creates tyranny. As for becoming a doctor or lawyer to scrape a living is wrong. People can choose a job they enjoy and make a living that is the accuracy of the capitalist theory. I think certain things should be socialized like schools, healthcare, roads, etc. A total capitalism or socialism creates a bad government.

[Frunk]

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

Therefore it will never work.

The flaw may truly be in the human nature, but the fact is:

It will not work.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

 

That sounds awfully familiar.

 

No there is nothing wrong with the theory of communism' date=' it just doesn't work in practice.

[/quote']

 

Thank you for restating what every impartial person in this debate (not just in this thread, I mean the Communist debate - ever) has said.

 

In practice, it can work, but only if the humanity it is being implemented to are thoroughly re-educated and enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it.

 

So, your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

 

Wrong. Brainwash and re-education, as someone has since stated, are two very different things. Read the sentence again, "enlightened as to all the good that could come about from living under it, abiding by it, and not rebelling against it." They are not "brainwashed" as that word implies that a lie is being promoted. The good could come from it, not by chance, but if allowed to fully develop and be put into place without unrest of the people - the people who simply do not understand or have in fact themselves been brainwashed, or at least misinformed, as to the truth.

 

The people do not become "poor" as there is no need for wealth. The world economy is unnecessary and is long as it exists, it will be exploited, and some people will lose out - Communism counters this. Read the Manifesto of the Communist Party* if you haven't already. If you have, read it again, as you've clearly missed the point.

 

* For your next quote, remember that that particular work is not a manifesto of any real political organisation, not now, not ever in the past - just the ideologies of those who created. These days, the works are interpreted and altered to be applicable to present day.

 

There isn't an ethical flaw in the theory of communism. The flaw is it in practice. It just doesn't work well. Can everyone live in harmony under the government? The theory is fine' date=' but it is flawed when implemented. The main flaw in communism is that it prohibits free and independent thought. Just like a fundamentalism or a theocracy only without a deity at the head of the propaganda.

[/quote']

 

That, again, is a problem of humanity, not Communism.

 

Communism is a form of government used for humanity. So if humanity has a problem with the government form then it is also the problem of the form of government. If the governing style doesn't work then it is the problem of the type be it communism, fundamentalism, etc.

 

Communism is an idea intended for use by, not "for," humanity. It is fact that Communism is indeed applicable, but humanity is not applicable. To "tweak" the idea for use in humanity's current state defies the purpose of its existence, as there is no part of Communism that is unnecessary.

 

So' date=' your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

[/quote']

 

Brainwashing and educating are two different things.

 

I'm pretty sure if we make people realize the bless everyone would live in if the economy is destroyed and where every single person is equal and gets exactly the same. Such a life is the perfect one.

 

People don't want to be equal they want to be better. I don't think that a lazy and ignorant person should be equal to a hard working intelligent person. The economy provides reward for those who become a success and punishes failure. Yes, I know sometimes the system let’s people fall, but I would rather that than a communist regime. I don’t go through the education and difficulty my advanced classes to be the same as everyone else. I do it to be better. A society in which everyone is out to improve their own lives is fair. Some strong people survive and become successes others will stay the same. Some unlucky few will become poor. The main reasons for poverty in the United States are drugs, lack of education, and medical bills. If we would instate Universal Health Care in the U.S. then we would have a closer to perfect society. Perfection doesn’t exist but we must try to get as close as possible. Communism is a failed attempt at a perfect society. Democracy succeeded and Communism failed.

 

You're equivocating "equality." Communism suggests not that everyone is the equal and none may strive ahead, but rather that no one loses out, and no one may jeopardise the chances of another.

 

May I ask why, specifically, you would rather the prospect of a person who is, often by no fault of their own, "lazy and ignorant" to die as a result of their tribulations, than to live under a Communist regime? I'm not talking about Stalinism or anything else undesirable, I'm talking about pure, working, righteous Communism.

 

Man should not work just for social standing. he should work for the pride of what he is doing and to serve his community. Yes a man can sit on his a** all day and not do anything productive to the community and if that kind of life suits him then so be it. But if a man wants and has the drive to do something productive it should be because he enjoys his work not because its required by the society to become a doctor or a lawyer just to scrape a living' date=' Which is exactly the problem with the capitalist theory. Man should never control anything as man is partial to his needs. Rather the government should control the man as the Government looks out for everyone in the whole. It is the only way we will ever secure any sort of real freedom and prosperity.

[/quote']

 

The government will do what it needs to do for the needs of the government. Plus, the government is made up of men who will do what they want for their own needs. Real freedom is when we can look out for ourselves that way we can ensure our security. The people should control the government not the other way around. That creates tyranny. As for becoming a doctor or lawyer to scrape a living is wrong. People can choose a job they enjoy and make a living that is the accuracy of the capitalist theory. I think certain things should be socialized like schools, healthcare, roads, etc. A total capitalism or socialism creates a bad government.

 

The thought that all government is inevitably corrupt is a narrow-minded one.

 

Indeed, the government should not control the people, but the people should not control the government, as that creates anarchy, which is justice, good life and health of the strongest. They should synonymous, assimilate, and both parties must be in search of a common ground and interest if either is to truly and wholly be fine.

 

The idea that all people in "proper capitalist" societies "can choose a job they enjoy" is also a narrow-minded one.

 

"Freedom" is overrated, a slippery path for one angered by the realities of existence, and one that man must relinquish if his species is to ever truly succeed.

[Lazer Yoshi]

Flame me all you want, but I think Communism is wrong because it makes everyone the same. This prevents others from expressing themselves, resulting in crap like Propaganda, ETC.

[Static]

' pid='2313357' dateline='1244494459']

The main issue I have with Communism is that equality isn't always equality. Someone that sits around at home and does nothing should not be considered equal to someone that works their a*s off for hours on end' date=' trying to make a living for their family. It's not that Communism is a terrible idea, it's that Human Nature prevents it from actually working. Every single person is selfish in one or more ways, and there are always going to be people that try and take the easy way out. As long as something like that exists, Communism is improbable.

[/quote']

 

And in capitalism, people like Paris Hilton never do any work and are somehow famous and given attention and rich.

 

I wasn't so much referring to Celebrities. Her father, however, owns tons of hotels and that's clearly how she gets all her money.

 

That's not necessarily true.

 

Most people, once they become rich, buy portions of companies called "stocks." The stock is a set percentage of the companies assets, and goes up in value when the company profits and goes down in value when the company takes a loss.

 

The problem with capitalism is that the rich are at a much greater advantage for making money than the poor are. When I have six million dollars to invest, I can make over million dollar turnover on that six million years over 10 years if the market is good. If I only have 60,000 dollars to invest, I would make 100 times less money than the guy with 6 million extra dollars to invest if I invested in the same stock simply because he can buy a larger quantity of stock.

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I see a huge ethical flaw in letting the rich make even more money disingenuously.

[Frunk]

Flame me all you want' date=' but I think Communism is wrong because it makes everyone the same. This prevents others from expressing themselves, resulting in crap like Propaganda, ETC.

[/quote']

 

I hate to keep repeating myself, but:

 

"Communism suggests not that everyone is the equal and none may strive ahead, but rather that no one loses out, and no one may jeopardise the chances of another."

 

The oppressive regime alluded to in your second sentence would be a Stalinist one, which is an extreme, but not necessarily all-bad, form of Communism. May I, calmly, suggest you at the bigger picture?

[Static]

So' date=' your saying it will work if you brain wash your people into it. It doesn't work because the people become poor and the economy is destroyed. Not to mention people want freedoms of speech and press so this will incite rebellion.

[/quote']

 

Brainwashing and educating are two different things.

 

I'm pretty sure if we make people realize the bless everyone would live in if the economy is destroyed and where every single person is equal and gets exactly the same. Such a life is the perfect one.

 

People don't want to be equal they want to be better. I don't think that a lazy and ignorant person should be equal to a hard working intelligent person. The economy provides reward for those who become a success and punishes failure. Yes, I know sometimes the system let’s people fall, but I would rather that than a communist regime. I don’t go through the education and difficulty my advanced classes to be the same as everyone else. I do it to be better. A society in which everyone is out to improve their own lives is fair. Some strong people survive and become successes others will stay the same. Some unlucky few will become poor. The main reasons for poverty in the United States are drugs, lack of education, and medical bills. If we would instate Universal Health Care in the U.S. then we would have a closer to perfect society. Perfection doesn’t exist but we must try to get as close as possible. Communism is a failed attempt at a perfect society. Democracy succeeded and Communism failed.

 

People don't care to be better, they care to be happy. People go through life bettering themselves because they want to be comfortable with the things that they have, as if happiness comes from what you get rather than what you give. Why should anyone born to this earth not have the same chance to be happy as someone else? Their action's? That's not really a fair way to determine whether someone should or should not have an easier time attaining happiness (happiness from wealth); people's action's are the result of previous causes, their brains and egos are not independent from the physical universe.

 

Communism has never failed because Communism has never existed. Democracy has never succeeded because there are people living in Democracies that are not happy with the government.

[Красивая Ведьма]

Yes, people should be judged on their past actions. That is the only thing that matters. If they wise up and try again then they can go back to school or whatever they must do. Otherwise, they have dug their own grave. People do care to better than others. It is true. Happiness comes through superiority. In capitalism those that make a life can be superior to those that didn't. People should be judged on what they do and nothing else. A classless system is just ridiculous because it can't exist outside of Anarchy. In a communism the class system is only undercover. It allows the government leaders to have a higher class than the citizens. This creates jealous and crime. People in communisms lose money due to the lack of an economy. That is why the world's strongest crime syndicates originated in formerly communist/fascist countries. When the economy hurts crime increases. Without an economy crime is at a new high. I agree that everyone should have an equal chance. If they don't take the chances allotted them then they have failed. Some make more use of the chances than others this creates an unbiased class system in which people are judged on their actions not skin color, gender, sexual orientation, or family members.

[Static]

Yes' date=' people should be judged on their past actions. That is the only thing that matters. If they wise up and try again then they can go back to school or whatever they must do. Otherwise, they have dug their own grave. People do care to better than others. It is true. Happiness comes through superiority. In capitalism those that make a life can be superior to those that didn't. People should be judged on what they do and nothing else. A classless system is just ridiculous because it can't exist outside of Anarchy. In a communism the class system is only undercover. It allows the government leaders to have a higher class than the citizens. This creates jealous and crime. People in communisms lose money due to the lack of an economy. That is why the world's strongest crime syndicates originated in formerly communist/fascist countries. When the economy hurts crime increases. Without an economy crime is at a new high. I agree that everyone should have an equal chance. If they don't take the chances allotted them then they have failed. Some make more use of the chances than others this creates an unbiased class system in which people are judged on their actions not skin color, gender, sexual orientation, or family members.

[/quote']

 

People's past action's are not their responsibility; they are the result of things that have happened in the previous moment which directly resulted in the exact occurrence from that moment. Human choices have no value when the future is certain, and it always is. Sure, we can choose to go to college, to make a better situation for ourselves, but we're not going to unless something along the way sparks a chain of events that causes one to take the path of bettering them self. People should not be judged on their actions because their action's, their entire lives are virtually predetermined, everything from beginning to end bound to happen.

 

Happiness does not come through superiority, human satisfaction does; and that is not what I meant by happiness. Satisfying the needs of the ego is like trying to fill a cracked bucket. The human ego can never be completely content with what is, it takes vision to look past the physical world and accept that things are the way that they are, and that is the realization of true happiness. The more classlessness we have, the more of an opportunity individuals have of obtaining the same happiness. With equality between people of all physical objects (same money, living spaces, etc..), the only thing stopping people from being content with their lives is their own idea or perspective of reality. Even if it is somewhat imperfect, some small group of people have a lot more, it is better than what we have in the world right now, over a billion people earning less than $1 per day. It's not justifiable to any extent that an American high school dropout with no bindings can make the same amount of money that a hard working citizen of a third world country makes in a year in an easy 40 hour week at Panera Bread.

 

I don't see why you mentioned fascist community crime; fascism is a capitalist construct, at least economically. IBM and the Bush family would not have invested in communists given the nature of the Communist structure.

[Красивая Ведьма]

People's past action's are not their responsibility; they are the result of things that have happened in the previous moment which directly resulted in the exact occurrence from that moment. Human choices have no value when the future is certain' date=' and it always is. Sure, we can choose to go to college, to make a better situation for ourselves, but we're not going to unless something along the way sparks a chain of events that causes one to take the path of bettering them self. People should not be judged on their actions because their action's, their entire lives are virtually predetermined, everything from beginning to end bound to happen.

 

Happiness does not come through superiority, human satisfaction does; and that is not what I meant by happiness. Satisfying the needs of the ego is like trying to fill a cracked bucket. The human ego can never be completely content with what is, it takes vision to look past the physical world and accept that things are the way that they are, and that is the realization of true happiness. The more classlessness we have, the more of an opportunity individuals have of obtaining the same happiness. With equality between people of all physical objects (same money, living spaces, etc..), the only thing stopping people from being content with their lives is their own idea or perspective of reality. Even if it is somewhat imperfect, some small group of people have a lot more, it is better than what we have in the world right now, over a billion people earning less than $1 per day. It's not justifiable to any extent that an American high school dropout with no bindings can make the same amount of money that a hard working citizen of a third world country makes in a year in an easy 40 hour week at Panera Bread.

 

I don't see why you mentioned fascist community crime; fascism is a capitalist construct, at least economically. IBM and the Bush family would not have invested in communists given the nature of the Communist structure.

[/quote']

 

I do not believe in fate. Fate we make for ourselves. Destiny isn't predetermined. The future can take many different turns based on what we do. The places that have $1 a day pay are places that have a poor economy. The economy can be revived by the government. We should help people in those situations, but communism will hurt them much more. It will destroy the fragile economy they already have.

[Static]

People's past action's are not their responsibility; they are the result of things that have happened in the previous moment which directly resulted in the exact occurrence from that moment. Human choices have no value when the future is certain' date=' and it always is. Sure, we can choose to go to college, to make a better situation for ourselves, but we're not going to unless something along the way sparks a chain of events that causes one to take the path of bettering them self. People should not be judged on their actions because their action's, their entire lives are virtually predetermined, everything from beginning to end bound to happen.

 

Happiness does not come through superiority, human satisfaction does; and that is not what I meant by happiness. Satisfying the needs of the ego is like trying to fill a cracked bucket. The human ego can never be completely content with what is, it takes vision to look past the physical world and accept that things are the way that they are, and that is the realization of true happiness. The more classlessness we have, the more of an opportunity individuals have of obtaining the same happiness. With equality between people of all physical objects (same money, living spaces, etc..), the only thing stopping people from being content with their lives is their own idea or perspective of reality. Even if it is somewhat imperfect, some small group of people have a lot more, it is better than what we have in the world right now, over a billion people earning less than $1 per day. It's not justifiable to any extent that an American high school dropout with no bindings can make the same amount of money that a hard working citizen of a third world country makes in a year in an easy 40 hour week at Panera Bread.

 

I don't see why you mentioned fascist community crime; fascism is a capitalist construct, at least economically. IBM and the Bush family would not have invested in communists given the nature of the Communist structure.

[/quote']

 

I do not believe in fate. Fate we make for ourselves. Destiny isn't predetermined. The future can take many different turns based on what we do. The places that have $1 a day pay are places that have a poor economy. The economy can be revived by the government. We should help people in those situations, but communism will hurt them much more. It will destroy the fragile economy they already have.

 

What makes destiny free from cause and effect? A meteor flying through the universe will only change direction if a force or object comes into contact with the meteor. A Crab on the floor of a shallow tide pool will not suddenly be pulled towards the surface of the water unless something along the lines of the incoming tide, the beak of a gull, or the hands of a child act on the crab or pull it towards the surface. What makes us special that we can somehow shape the world the way that nothing else in the universe can?

 

 

Communism is absolutely not, even remotely ideal for any country in the world as we know it. Communism would only ever work if we went and erased all the made up lines in the ground and changed an entire population's perspective of the world as we know it. If that happened, economy would be completely useless, people wouldn't need to trade with each other because nothing would be owned by anyone anymore.

[Красивая Ведьма]

I would point out the errors in your fate theory, but that isn't the debate so I will save it for the Fate thread whenever it appears. Communism isn't ideal for any country in the world. That I agree with. I don't think that abolishing economics is a good thing or, the prospect of not owning possessions. I could refute this again but I fear that I would only be repeating myself as you have started to do. I will say again that communisms deplete national wealth and over time the equal amount given to all decrease. Then you have a fall of the government. In a democracy national wealth usually increases because of the free market.

[Static]

I would point out the errors in your fate theory' date=' but that isn't the debate so I will save it for the Fate thread whenever it appears. Communism isn't ideal for any country in the world. That I agree with. I don't think that abolishing economics is a good thing or, the prospect of not owning possessions. I could refute this again but I fear that I would only be repeating myself as you have started to do. I will say again that communisms deplete national wealth and over time the equal amount given to all decrease. Then you have a fall of the government. In a democracy national wealth usually increases because of the free market.

[/quote']

 

I posted the fate v. free will thread, but I either was not approved or it never got checked on yet. Given that I posted it a week ago, it was probably disapproved. For what reason I do not know.

 

And you're right, this really isn't a battle of opposing political structure, this is just a basic disagreement of fundamentals. Your views are based on the assumption that we shape destiny and should be rewarded for it. Mine based on the assumption that we're bound to destiny and that our inherent consciousnesses are equal, and that we should thus be given the liberty to attain happiness equally with other citizens that can benefit the collective whole.

 

In the world which we live, wealth and quality of life are not relevant. What matter's is how content the people of society are with what is. It's all about perspective, and communism allows everyone to see themselves as a community for what they really are, a small piece of the entire community yet significant because they are still a piece of it.

 

If you can't agree with that, then we can't really have an argument over whether or not communism is better or worse than democracy, and it has already been made evident that there aren't ethical flaws to the theory of the communist structure.

 

 

In that case, why don't you go ahead and point out those flaws in my "there isn't free will theory."

[Красивая Ведьма]

Well, your issues in the concept of people having no free will. You made a comparison to a crab being pulled into the tide. I don't think we have total free will. There are outside forces that influence our lives, but we can still make decisions. This is free will. One course of action results in its own fashion and the other in a different reaction. So, the concept of making decisions is free will. Believing we don't have a choice is like saying all your accomplishments were just fate and not an accomplishment you made. It is also saying all your failures aren't your own. The belief that we don't have any free will is the way of someone who doesn't want to take responsibility and a cowardly concept.

[Static]

Well' date=' your issues in the concept of people having no free will. You made a comparison to a crab being pulled into the tide. I don't think we have total free will. There are outside forces that influence our lives, but we can still make decisions. This is free will. One course of action results in its own fashion and the other in a different reaction. So, the concept of making decisions is free will. Believing we don't have a choice is like saying all your accomplishments were just fate and not an accomplishment you made. It is also saying all your failures aren't your own. The belief that we don't have any free will is the way of someone who doesn't want to take responsibility and a cowardly concept.

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Whether or not it is a lazy man's or coward's concept does not change the validity of the concept.

 

What I'm trying to figure out is how our choices are not the result of energy in a chaotic system changing based on the surrounding forces. How are our thoughts, decision's, even emotions any bit separate from cause and effect. Brain chemicals and states of mind are all controlled by physical systems, physical energy, and all physical energy changes (we call this time) as a direct result of the state of the [matter and] energy surrounding it. Nothing happens randomly; thing's will only change in this universe if something causes it to change, something acts on it.

 

Our thoughts, feelings, all of that, is, like the rest of the universe, forces being acted upon in some way or another, and that is what creates the essence of our being. We might make decision's; we feel that there are two roads we could plausibly take, but there is no probability, even if we're thinking about an issue, the one that will happen is the one that the universe will "push" (effect of cause) us into picking.

[Fh-Fh]

Commy-nizm isn't wrong. Its just that every time someone tried it, things went wrong, it turned into dictatorship/totalitarianism, and it has a bad reputation of death, destruction, and fear. Example: People died, corrupt government. I don't think its wrong. In fact, my great-grandfather was a communist and was actually one of the first people to start worker unions in the southern factories, and actually ran for mayor of his hometown. Eventually people started hating him, then great deppression hit, then they realized south was a bunch of racist hics, and moved to california.

 

Anyway, I think communism would be great if noone assumed power. But the thing about communism is that its like panning for gold. As you sift through, the gold nuggets appear at the top, and rise above all the other minerals. If you've ever read Animal Farm you'll know what I'm talking about.

[Nuchiha101]

Communism is dicatorship.

 

This is the list of things that are in communism.

 

1. You CANNOT own property and have to pay rent.

 

2. You CANNOT own any kind of weaponry.

 

3. You have to do EVERYTHING the leader tells you to do or face severe consequences.

 

That IS dicatorship.