ragnarok1945 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 that was more because he had to keep his promise' date=' or he would have been assasinated, that's how it went for leaders who don't live up to their promised back then in such times in Germany[/quote'] He was an elitist. Even if he only cared about himself, he still would have given better to the people of Germany than to others out of love for his country (which, in his perception, was himself). There is no reasonable proof to say that Hitler did not care about the people of Germany whilst the Reich was successful. That's true, since he did construct the flak towers in Berlin to protect its inhabitants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomix Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Omega Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 lol, why did you even post a thread about WWII on a kids anime related website? Also, to end it, WWII sucks, done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDemonX Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't recall that weapon in WWII. What is it? we shoot Beavers out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerlinX Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 :[ Let your head rest for the fallen' date= the true heroes that keep democracy alive. It was a horrible day in history.[/quote] Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't recall that weapon in WWII. What is it? we shoot Beavers out of it When exactly did that happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 WWII is one of my 'favorite' wars (and I use that term lightly). There were quite a number of developments during that time (including my personal fave - the atomic bomb). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is technically still on the D-Day topic, SaturnPaladin. Problem is while everyone knows what happened at the beaches, few people seem to know what happened AFTER the beaches had been passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 This is technically still on the D-Day topic' date=' SaturnPaladin. Problem is while everyone knows what happened at the beaches, few people seem to know what happened AFTER the beaches had been passed.[/quote'] None of the history books I had in school covered that. :(In fact, not much on D-Day was even mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 exactly my point. Everyone just skipped right to the liberation of Paris on Aug 25th, which seemed to suggest from Jun 6th until then was a cakewalk. That actually didn't start to happen until July 25th, and German resistance in Normandy didn't disappear until Aug 21st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 exactly my point. Everyone just skipped right to the liberation of Paris on Aug 25th' date=' which seemed to suggest from Jun 6th until then was a cakewalk. That actually didn't start to happen until July 25th, and German resistance in Normandy didn't disappear until Aug 21st.[/quote'] So, what kept them? The Germans had to have had a good drop in morale from being caught off guard like that. Wouldn't that have made it a bit easier to push forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ah, this is where the allies CONSTANTLY underestimated the Germans: their ability to recover very quickly and move into defensive positions. The allies still didn't understand how this was possible since they had complete air superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ah' date=' this is where the allies CONSTANTLY underestimated the Germans: their ability to recover very quickly and move into defensive positions. The allies still didn't understand how this was possible since they had complete air superiority.[/quote'] Well, Hitler did have a way of rallying people together toward a common goal. Guess he motivated them better than the Allies could have ever hoped. Despite that, it was still no match for superior strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 pfffft. The allies had no superior strategy. The bocage bled them to a near standstill. Their entire tactic is to keep calling in artillery and airstrikes until ALL of the hedgerows were burned so the Germans had no defensive positions left to hide in, and then advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 pfffft. The allies had no superior strategy. The bocage bled them to a near standstill. Their entire tactic is to keep calling in artillery and airstrikes until ALL of the hedgerows were burned so the Germans had no defensive positions left to hide in' date=' and then advance.[/quote'] It's still a legitimate strategy - take out their defenses before advancing. Sure, it can take a while - but it's better than just charging in blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ok, let me explain how a typical bocage is defended. Since it's box country, it means there's only ONE lane the tank columns can pass through. A panther or tiger tank would command the lane right around the corner. Once an allied armored column gets in range, that tank will turn the corner, fire a shot, which will knock out the American sherman tank right away in one shot. This means all the other tanks in the column are now stuck because the lane is too narrow for more than one tank. When this happens, the dug in mortar positions which calculated the range will open up and the whole column will be subject to shelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Ok' date=' let me explain how a typical bocage is defended. Since it's box country, it means there's only ONE lane the tank columns can pass through. A panther or tiger tank would command the lane right around the corner. Once an allied armored column gets in range, that tank will turn the corner, fire a shot, which will knock out the American sherman tank right away in one shot. This means all the other tanks in the column are now stuck because the lane is too narrow for more than one tank. When this happens, the dug in mortar positions which calculated the range will open up and the whole column will be subject to shelling.[/quote'] That's what advance scouts are for - not to mention moving in on more than one position. It doesn't have to be with just tanks. That's just begging for trouble. Send in the scouts/air support first and make sure that your ground heavy artillery is clear to move before advancing. (I like that strategy, though. So underhanded and ingenius) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 oh that was taken into account. Due to the thick hedgerows, the scouts can barely even move in there. You need the tanks to clear the hedgerows enough for them to move, and they tend to be destroyed by anti-tank guns before they can clear enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn of Elemia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 oh that was taken into account. Due to the thick hedgerows' date=' the scouts can barely even move in there. You need the tanks to clear the hedgerows enough for them to move, and they tend to be destroyed by anti-tank guns before they can clear enough of it.[/quote'] Couldn't they have used a slightly more mobile vehicle like a jeep with an attachment on the front to clear the hedgerows, a team to burn the hedgerows, or even some kind of air strike to try and clear the debris? If they weren't stingy on grenades, I suppose they could've used those to clear the debris. (Getting off topic now with strategy talk) So, how long did this standstill last before they finally broke through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 The hedgerow is far too thick for that. Hell, even the American rhino tanks, converted specifically to clear bushes, had minimal effect against the bocage in Normandy. The same was true when it came to the flamethrower tanks. The hedgerows were everywhere, there's simply not enough fuel to burn them ALL to the ground, the vast majority had to be left standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDemonX Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I see I made a good thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You sure did, DemonX. It is why SaturnPaladin and I are still discussing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDemonX Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Thats good, talking about WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I know, I forgot to tell him because my net crapped out the breakout was in July 25th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoDemonX Posted June 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I know' date=' I forgot to tell him because my net crapped out the breakout was in July 25th[/quote'] Net breakout???? what the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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