Willieh Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 ' pid='2502012' dateline='1246865051']Our free mind enables us to kill for fun. Hmmm... It's kind of hard to explain what I'm thinking. Maybe that's because it's stupid. Idk. But' date=' what I'm kind of getting at is that people are no different than ants in the fact that they strive to achieve a set goal in life. The only difference is that people aren't limited to a certain goal determined by nature. In the long run, our creations are just as natural as any other animals creations and our activity is just as natural as any other creatures. It's just our free thought that separates us.[/quote'] We don't have "Free Thought," we're just as much bound to fate as ants are. What we have is complicated thought, "Open Thought" if you would. We can contemplate objects and concepts and comprehend the natural order of these things. We have free thought and predetermined decisions. We aren't bound to nature like ants are. If free will didn't exist there would be no individual. Flawed argument. Our individuality is based on the fact that we exist and make decisions, not on the premise that these decisions are actually free from fate. Atomic particles and energy make up our existence, these particles and energy react based on the other particles and energy surrounding them, and they thus change based on the change of other particles around them, directly from the changes of other particles around them. There is no randomness, there is no universal fallout point, so everything happens based on what happens around it. We're just molecular structures; albeit thinking structures, but we are of that nature, we are just as bound to fate as an asteroid flying through deep space.Argh. What I'm saying is that ants are bound to nature. They live only to make a colony, in which they function only for the queen. People however, actually function apart from nature. People have the ability to sit down and think about something and come up with elaborate solutions to problem. Animals are usually not capable of such at thing and are thus more bound to nature than humans. Free will does exist, just not by conventional definition. Determinism might be ultimately true, but free will doesn't interfere with the idea of determinism. Free will is only there because it does separate us from animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 ' pid='2502012' dateline='1246865051']Our free mind enables us to kill for fun. Hmmm... It's kind of hard to explain what I'm thinking. Maybe that's because it's stupid. Idk. But' date=' what I'm kind of getting at is that people are no different than ants in the fact that they strive to achieve a set goal in life. The only difference is that people aren't limited to a certain goal determined by nature. In the long run, our creations are just as natural as any other animals creations and our activity is just as natural as any other creatures. It's just our free thought that separates us.[/quote'] We don't have "Free Thought," we're just as much bound to fate as ants are. What we have is complicated thought, "Open Thought" if you would. We can contemplate objects and concepts and comprehend the natural order of these things. We have free thought and predetermined decisions. We aren't bound to nature like ants are. If free will didn't exist there would be no individual. Flawed argument. Our individuality is based on the fact that we exist and make decisions, not on the premise that these decisions are actually free from fate. Atomic particles and energy make up our existence, these particles and energy react based on the other particles and energy surrounding them, and they thus change based on the change of other particles around them, directly from the changes of other particles around them. There is no randomness, there is no universal fallout point, so everything happens based on what happens around it. We're just molecular structures; albeit thinking structures, but we are of that nature, we are just as bound to fate as an asteroid flying through deep space.Argh. What I'm saying is that ants are bound to nature. They live only to make a colony, in which they function only for the queen. People however, actually function apart from nature. People have the ability to sit down and think about something and come up with elaborate solutions to problem. Animals are usually not capable of such at thing and are thus more bound to nature than humans. Free will does exist, just not by conventional definition. Determinism might be ultimately true, but free will doesn't interfere with the idea of determinism. Free will is only there because it does separate us from animals. That is not "Free Will," Free Will is the ability to make conscious decisions, rational and judgments free from cause and effect. What you are trying to Convey is "Will," the ability to make conscious decisions rational and judgment, whether free or bound to cause and effect. The simple action of this "increased, human specific type of thought" is Will. Since there is nothing inherently free about it because it is still all bound to fate, it is not "Free Will." Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 ' pid='2502012' dateline='1246865051']Our free mind enables us to kill for fun. Hmmm... It's kind of hard to explain what I'm thinking. Maybe that's because it's stupid. Idk. But' date=' what I'm kind of getting at is that people are no different than ants in the fact that they strive to achieve a set goal in life. The only difference is that people aren't limited to a certain goal determined by nature. In the long run, our creations are just as natural as any other animals creations and our activity is just as natural as any other creatures. It's just our free thought that separates us.[/quote'] We don't have "Free Thought," we're just as much bound to fate as ants are. What we have is complicated thought, "Open Thought" if you would. We can contemplate objects and concepts and comprehend the natural order of these things. We have free thought and predetermined decisions. We aren't bound to nature like ants are. If free will didn't exist there would be no individual. Flawed argument. Our individuality is based on the fact that we exist and make decisions, not on the premise that these decisions are actually free from fate. Atomic particles and energy make up our existence, these particles and energy react based on the other particles and energy surrounding them, and they thus change based on the change of other particles around them, directly from the changes of other particles around them. There is no randomness, there is no universal fallout point, so everything happens based on what happens around it. We're just molecular structures; albeit thinking structures, but we are of that nature, we are just as bound to fate as an asteroid flying through deep space.Argh. What I'm saying is that ants are bound to nature. They live only to make a colony, in which they function only for the queen. People however, actually function apart from nature. People have the ability to sit down and think about something and come up with elaborate solutions to problem. Animals are usually not capable of such at thing and are thus more bound to nature than humans. Free will does exist, just not by conventional definition. Determinism might be ultimately true, but free will doesn't interfere with the idea of determinism. Free will is only there because it does separate us from animals. That is not "Free Will," Free Will is the ability to make conscious decisions, rational and judgments free from cause and effect. What you are trying to Convey is "Will," the ability to make conscious decisions rational and judgment, whether free or bound to cause and effect. The simple action of this "increased, human specific type of thought" is Will. Since there is nothing inherently free about it because it is still all bound to fate, it is not "Free Will." Sorry for the confusion. Free Will is the ability to make a decision, without that decision being controlled by an external force. If you consider Cause and Effect to be the external force, then Free Will does not exist. However, my idea of Free Will would be the ability to make a decision that isn't bound to nature itself. Ants are born into a job and live a certain way. There is no diversity among ants, other than physical attributes. A human has emotional value and makes decisions based on what it wants. The ultimate reasoning for any decision will always be because that's the decision you wanted to make. Ants aren't given this option; they live and function in a way determined by nature itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Static Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 ' pid='2502012' dateline='1246865051']Our free mind enables us to kill for fun. Hmmm... It's kind of hard to explain what I'm thinking. Maybe that's because it's stupid. Idk. But' date=' what I'm kind of getting at is that people are no different than ants in the fact that they strive to achieve a set goal in life. The only difference is that people aren't limited to a certain goal determined by nature. In the long run, our creations are just as natural as any other animals creations and our activity is just as natural as any other creatures. It's just our free thought that separates us.[/quote'] We don't have "Free Thought," we're just as much bound to fate as ants are. What we have is complicated thought, "Open Thought" if you would. We can contemplate objects and concepts and comprehend the natural order of these things. We have free thought and predetermined decisions. We aren't bound to nature like ants are. If free will didn't exist there would be no individual. Flawed argument. Our individuality is based on the fact that we exist and make decisions, not on the premise that these decisions are actually free from fate. Atomic particles and energy make up our existence, these particles and energy react based on the other particles and energy surrounding them, and they thus change based on the change of other particles around them, directly from the changes of other particles around them. There is no randomness, there is no universal fallout point, so everything happens based on what happens around it. We're just molecular structures; albeit thinking structures, but we are of that nature, we are just as bound to fate as an asteroid flying through deep space.Argh. What I'm saying is that ants are bound to nature. They live only to make a colony, in which they function only for the queen. People however, actually function apart from nature. People have the ability to sit down and think about something and come up with elaborate solutions to problem. Animals are usually not capable of such at thing and are thus more bound to nature than humans. Free will does exist, just not by conventional definition. Determinism might be ultimately true, but free will doesn't interfere with the idea of determinism. Free will is only there because it does separate us from animals. That is not "Free Will," Free Will is the ability to make conscious decisions, rational and judgments free from cause and effect. What you are trying to Convey is "Will," the ability to make conscious decisions rational and judgment, whether free or bound to cause and effect. The simple action of this "increased, human specific type of thought" is Will. Since there is nothing inherently free about it because it is still all bound to fate, it is not "Free Will." Sorry for the confusion. Free Will is the ability to make a decision, without that decision being controlled by an external force. If you consider Cause and Effect to be the external force, then Free Will does not exist. However, my idea of Free Will would be the ability to make a decision that isn't bound to nature itself. Ants are born into a job and live a certain way. There is no diversity among ants, other than physical attributes. A human has emotional value and makes decisions based on what it wants. The ultimate reasoning for any decision will always be because that's the decision you wanted to make. Ants aren't given this option; they live and function in a way determined by nature itself. When I talk about nature, I talk about the nature of the universe, on the largest and smallest levels, not just genetic. In laymans terms, what I'm trying to say is that our actions are bound by the stars, but also by everything else in the universe changing, creating time and the effects of time are the inevitable changes that manifest what we call "right now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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