Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 If God created everything, then God created evil since well...evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx541 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 since god is everything then yes your point is valid... try telling a priest that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Evil does not exist Jaxx541, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Here is another contradiction. Everything I am saying beyond this point is not proved to be true, but taken from the fiction book known as the Bible: God created people.People aren't perfect.Therefore, God created imperfect people. Perfect people do no evil.Imperfect people do evil.Therefore, God created imperfect people who do evil. Get it so far? The punishment for no evil is heaven.The punishment for evil is hell.Therefore, the punishment for imperfect people who do evil is hell. PLOT TWIST! Therefore, the punishment for the creator of imperfect people who do evil is ALSO hell. My point has been made. EDIT: Evil is simply the absence of God. DoP, I thought you were smarter than that. >=( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 /\Phail xP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx541 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 you say evil happens when a man doesnt believe in god, right?(one word answer, with a question to follow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 AHHH!! A wall of text!! Read. =P This has a thought provoking message no matter how you believe. Does evil exist? The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?A student bravely replied yes, he did!""God created everything?" The professor asked."Yes, sir," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil."The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth. Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?" "Of course", replied the professor. The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?" "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question. The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Everybody and every object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have too little heat. The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?" The professor responded, "Of course it does". The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present." Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?" Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. "These manifestations are nothing else but evil." To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love, that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." The professor sat down...until he stood up once more to prove them wrong...but couldn't. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 you say evil happens when a man doesnt believe in god' date=' right?(one word answer, with a question to follow)[/quote'] Not true in the slightest. Take this hypothetical example: Two people are in jail. One is an atheist and the other is a believer of God. They are in the jail for the same reason, for murdering someone. The atheist believes his only punishment is jail. Therefore, when he gets out of jail, he will NOT murder someone else out of the fear of jail. The God-believer believes he is punished through jail and hell. Therefore, when he gets out of jail, he will NOT murder someone else out of fear for jail AND hell. Another example: We have two people, Bob the atheist and John the God-believer. Both Bob and John are mad at their wives. One day, Bob gets into a furious argument with his spouse. Out of rage, Bob throws a lamp at his wife, killing her due to loss of blood. Bob knows he will go to jail (but dismisses the punishment of hell), so he hides the body. The next day, John gets into a furious argument with HIS spouse. John is a hunter, so he gets his gun and threatens his wife. His wife dials 911, right when John shoots her. Knowing he will get put in jail, and possibly hell through sins, he makes it look like Melinda, his wife, suicided. In both situations, both men knew the consequences. It didn't matter who had a worse punishment, but they eventually commited the same crime. EDIT: inb4tl;dr If cold is the absence of heat, why isn't heat the absense of cold. There is a big hole in your logic. Also, you agree that evil and "good" are opposites. And yet you blatantly assume that "good" is the existance of God. We cannot prove the existance of God, therefore we cannot prove the existance of good. Another hole. Darkness is the absense of light. Darkness is the lack of light and light is the lack of darkness. You need to understand this is a two-way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Crime vs. Punishment...consequence vs. the outcome of whatever the event or action et cetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx541 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 a man in texas proclaimed hisself as the second coming of christ and the police stopped him and his followers killed them all. that man drove many ppl to thier deaths in the name of god... in my book that is a man with god that is evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Really... These arguments/debates lead nowhere. Evil and Good is a perception. There is no absolute, just a common definition for both.Why you people try this, is far from my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 God created CONTROVERSY and LOLZ <_<Really... These arguments/debates lead nowhere. Evil and Good is a perception. There is no absolute' date=' just a common definition for both.Why you people try this, is far from my understanding.[/quote'] I do it for lolz.Others for post count or to win or whatever. >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Culpa Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 God did create a perfect person. His name was Adam. It just so happens he made a fault when creating Eve that made her unnaturally curious. Therefore she ate the fruit, corrupting the human race as we know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Crime vs. Punishment...consequence vs. the outcome of whatever the event or action et cetera. The both commited the same crime' date=' and one will get a higher punishment. Should both be proven innocent, neither will commit a crime out of fear. How much fear is not a variable in this. Really... These arguments/debates lead nowhere. They do not. Anything involving God is just idiocy. My side takes the scientific approach and questions all religious books, and the opposition takes a religious approach and attempts to prove us His existance. At the end of the day, however, neither can prove himself correct, nor the other wrong. Evil and Good is a perception. There is no absolute, just a common definition for both.Why you people try this, is far from my understanding. This is pure epic. I kill someone. In other people's minds, I commited an EVIL deed. In my mind, I had a reason to kill someone (they stole mah cookie), and I believe it was a GOOD deed. EDIT @ OW: Can you tell me, who documented the existance of Adam and Eve? And if they were the first two humans, and were Christian, how come other religions date back further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 We should all look at it this way:Our minds are not up for it right now...We can see an illusion in many ways. If you don't like to see it one way, you are bound to see it another. Yes or No, No or Yes. Whatever it is...it's free will. Comes the question of the existence of Free Will...then other questions. Damn the whole thing full of controversy and such. One brings something and then some other brings out another thing for another to reply to it and so on. Screw the cycle. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 You are partially correct. Debates have a "yes or no" "no or yes" context. Two opposing sides trying to prove the other wrong, whilst proving himself right. In any debate about a supreme being, we have no substantial proof about His (non)existance, therefore any debate about said being is null. In a debate about "Smoking: Allowed in public places?", one side can make a statement that second-hand smoke kills thousands a year. The other side has no counter to that, therefore the opposing side has "won" until the approving side gives a counter. In this debate, it's a religious person saying God exists and listing his facts, and an atheist saying God does not exist, and listing his facts. Neither said has a counter for the other sides arguments, so it will be a never ending debate until someone can (dis)prove the existance of a supreme being. One thing I do have to say, and I don't really care if it gets me b&, is this: After analyzing several religous people, I can say this with confidence. Many (50%+) people who believe in a supreme being are religious and belieiving enough that, if shown an infinite amount of evidence that disproves God, they will set aside the facts and go out on belief. Atheists are composed of mainly scientists. Therefore, if shown an infinite amount of proof, as a scientist, they HAVE TO agree that God exists, whether they like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 You are partially correct. Debates have a "yes or no" "no or yes" context. Two opposing sides trying to prove the other wrong' date=' whilst proving himself right. In any debate about a supreme being, we have no substantial proof about His (non)existance, therefore any debate about said being is null. In a debate about "Smoking: Allowed in public places?", one side can make a statement that second-hand smoke kills thousands a year. The other side has no counter to that, therefore the opposing side has "won" until the approving side gives a counter. In this debate, it's a religious person saying God exists and listing his facts, and an atheist saying God does not exist, and listing his facts. Neither said has a counter for the other sides arguments, so it will be a never ending debate until someone can (dis)prove the existance of a supreme being. One thing I do have to say, and I don't really care if it gets me b&, is this: After analyzing several religous people, I can say this with confidence. Many (50%+) people who believe in a supreme being are religious and belieiving enough that, if shown an infinite amount of evidence that disproves God, they will set aside the facts and go out on belief. Atheists are composed of mainly scientists. Therefore, if shown an infinite amount of proof, as a scientist, they HAVE TO agree that God exists, whether they like it or not.[/quote'] Tell me, exactly how many religious people did you "analyze"?And where are you getting your statistic for atheists being scientists? Both my parents are actual scientists and Christian :/I have plenty of friends who are atheists, yet none of them are "scientists"Sounds to me like you're just rattling off stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Meh.A no win question that has ended in this thread because I felt like singing, but I ain't no fat lady. <_< So that's about it unless someone else feels like talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Scientists prove everything they know. Religious people claim they know of God's existance. If they were truly scientists, they would either use the word "believe" or prove their knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Scientists prove everything they know. Religious people claim they know of God's existance. If they were truly scientists' date=' they would either use the word "believe" or prove their knowledge.[/quote'] And yet you "believe" that God doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Yes. I cannot say I know there is no God, because honestly, I don't. However, I can believe that there is no God, and TRY to prove my opposition wrong. It's the same for religious people, but with the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 After analyzing several religous people' date=' I can say this with confidence. Many (50%+) people who believe in a supreme being are religious and belieiving enough that, if shown an infinite amount of evidence that disproves God, they will set aside the facts and go out on belief. [b']Atheists are composed of mainly scientists.[/b] Therefore, if shown an infinite amount of proof, as a scientist, they HAVE TO agree that God exists, whether they like it or not. Scientists prove everything they know. Religious people claim they know of God's existance. If they were truly scientists' date=' they would either use the word "believe"[/b'] or prove their knowledge. Yes. I cannot say I know there is no God' date=' because honestly, I don't. [b']However, I can believe that there is no God, and TRY to prove my opposition wrong. It's the same for religious people, but with the other side. Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller of Parables Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 After analyzing several religous people' date=' I can say this with confidence. Many (50%+) people who believe in a supreme being are religious and belieiving enough that, if shown an infinite amount of evidence that disproves God, they will set aside the facts and go out on belief. [b']Atheists are composed of mainly scientists.[/b] Therefore, if shown an infinite amount of proof, as a scientist, they HAVE TO agree that God exists, whether they like it or not. Scientists prove everything they know. Religious people claim they know of God's existance. If they were truly scientists' date=' they would either use the word "believe"[/b'] or prove their knowledge. Yes. I cannot say I know there is no God' date=' because honestly, I don't. [b']However, I can believe that there is no God, and TRY to prove my opposition wrong. It's the same for religious people, but with the other side. Wait, what? Sorry dear...Dªrk is just trying. =/ Give him some credit, controversy exists.After analyzing several religous people' date=' I can say this with confidence. Many (50%+) people who believe in a supreme being are religious and belieiving enough that, if shown an infinite amount of evidence that disproves God, they will set aside the facts and go out on belief. [b']Atheists are composed of mainly scientists.[/b] Therefore, if shown an infinite amount of proof, as a scientist, they HAVE TO agree that God exists, whether they like it or not. Scientists prove everything they know. Religious people claim they know of God's existance. If they were truly scientists' date=' they would either use the word "believe"[/b'] or prove their knowledge. Yes. I cannot say I know there is no God' date=' because honestly, I don't. [b']However, I can believe that there is no God, and TRY to prove my opposition wrong. It's the same for religious people, but with the other side. Wait, what? Sorry dear...Dªrk is just trying. =/ Give him some credit, controversy exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Let's take this slowly. OKAY? Atheists are MAINLY composed of scientists.Scientists believe things, but they have to PROVE the things they KNOW. If a scientist wants to BELIEVE in God, I have no problem. BUT THEY HAVE TO PROVE IT IF THEY CLAIM THEY KNOW OF GOD'S EXISTANCE. I believe there is no supreme being. But I HAVE TO PROVE IT TO CLAIM I KNOW THERE IS NO SUPREME BEING. In this argument, both sides believe, yet neither know. GET IT? EDIT: DoP is probably the first person to say my name with the symbols. I am so happy. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Oh this is a 'my bad', lol.I misread your middle quote, I thought it said scientists wouldn't say believe. My apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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