「tea.leaf」 Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Once upon a time, an old guy sat down with some paper and ink and thought about something. He wrote down a nice little story, and he thought it'd be a great idea to control others by threatening them with it. Of course, he thought no logical person would possibly believe him, so he wrote down also that something higher told him so. The old guy didn't want anyone else to be stealing his victims, so he also said every other guy's story is wrong. With a wipe of the brow, he was finished; he was too tired to proofread it, and just bound it the next day. He took the book to town and yelled at some people; turns out they liked it. Everyone was desperate for something better; life sucked, and everyone knew it. The old guy was happy, though; his book made him an army that continuously replicated itself, because that's what the book said. I despise religion not because it's false, or whatever, but because it's been used to control people since its conception. Every religion in existence, at one point or another, was a pyramid scheme; if those are illegal, why does religion still exist? I really don't understand how people can even muster the will to believe in some stuff an old guy wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JoshIcy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Thats a good girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Phoenix Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 However the tale does not end there. The other authors, angered by the success of the old man's book, decided to take action. They banded together and, using their combined literary prowess, crafted a novel so powerful and well written that it could hold its own against the old man's beloved work. At the center of this tale was a translucent steed bearing a single, sharply honed horn and with a striking pink coat. The creature caught on quickly and became much beloved by the general populace. Angered by the competition for his mindless fans' devotion, the aging author gave his most loyal followers armor, swords, and other tools of war and sent them to attack the other authors in their very hometown. As one author and his fans held them back with scimitars and some questionable tactics involving camels and 4 day old feces, the other author slowly crept into the old man's beachfront property and began to use their frugal business skills to slowly dominate the banking and real estate market. Angered, the pretzel and beer company that had sponsored the first author began to hunt the 3rd author down. The author planted several doubles in the basements of vineyards to distract the company, and tricked the author's own fans into defeating them. Depressed, the head of the company took his own life in a random underground bunker. A 4th author tried to write yet another book to challenge the elderly author, but his equality obsessed government's meddling laid ruin to the budding work's potential, and ended up coming in 2nd in book sales to the old man. Bored, the second author from long ago sent some of his rabid fans (who had recently converted from some sparkling vampire fandom) that had gotten on his nerves in planes on a crash course with two random large buildings the first author fancied. And to this day, you can still hear the flittering of pens across parchment, as they rapidly churn out more and more stories, each more ridiculous than the last, in an attempt to outdo eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
「tea.leaf」 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Dang, I don't know how to keep going with this. ._. Was there an L. Ron Hubbard reference in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelsthla-Mental Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Even if it IS true, still no excuse to abuse it. As for believing stuff some old guy wrote, isn't that pretty much all of history? As for the pyramid scheme... Eh, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Phoenix Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Dang' date=' I don't know how to keep going with this. ._. Was there an L. Ron Hubbard reference in there?[/quote'] No, I completely forgot about scientology when I was writing that, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
「tea.leaf」 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Even if it IS true' date=' still no excuse to abuse it. As for believing stuff some old guy wrote, isn't that pretty much all of history? As for the pyramid scheme... Eh, true.[/quote'] History has backing, usually in the form of some primary source, and is witnessed by multiple parties and generally accepted. Beyond that, everything is speculation; of course, no one worships history, but people will worship a fairytale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelsthla-Mental Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Not entirely true with history worshipping. Yes not to the degree religion does, but don't forget stuff like remembrance day, remembering what we now know as a 'sad waste of life' or whatever. And lest we forget the fifth of November! ...Seriously though, yes there is the point of backing up the claims. Although from what i've seen there has been enough evidence that yes there was a guy called Jesus who had followers (Even negative Roman portrayals admit him around, even a reference to his execution), course just because Saint Nicholas exists doesn't mean Santa does, but it's worth noting. could be the whole King Arthur story, based on true events then blown way out of proportion. The main reason Christianity is the main attacked faith is not only the fact that it is one of the largest, but their the ones trying to use found knowledge of 'history' to back up their claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdogPrime Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 We don't worship history on Remembrance Day. It's a day to honor people who fought and died because they believed that it is our right sit in our comfortable homes and speak freely over the internet about whatever overly-debated topics we care to bring up. They believed that so much, they were willing to kill other men, or die by their hands. Many of those people were religious. Show a little respect, if only because they were human beings. The main reason Christianity is the main attacked faith is not only the fact that it is one of the largest' date=' but their the ones trying to use found knowledge of 'history' to back up their claims.[/quote'] With that logic, I can disprove the existence of anyone by simply refusing to believe that they existed because the only proof is that someone wrote about them. Did Genghis Khan really exist? History says that he did, but do we REALLY know that he existed? It could all be the most elaborate conspiracy in history. A conqueror who never was. The same claim could be made for Julius Caesar. Maybe Shakespeare made him up in that play and they wrote a back story for him. The Art of War was really written by a little old man in Seattle to cash in on the west's growing interest in East Asia. World War I? Forgetaboutit. Never happened. All shot on a backlot in Hollywood. That's the point of having FAITH. You either believe, or you don't. And if you don't, stop trying to prove the believers wrong. You'll never succeed and you'll be a miserable person for it. Which brings me to Tea Leaf. Stop trying to disguise your comtempt for religion by saying that you don't like people being controlled by it. People hate things they fear. So I guess the question would be, do you hate because you don't understand, or do you hate because you are afraid they might on to something? Also, stop touting your opinion as fact. If you can prove what you are saying, then do it. Otherwise, keep your opinions to yourself. Trying to debate religion on the internet is like trying to pull a mile long string of handkerchiefs from a cow's rear. By the time it's over, everyone's miserable and covered in sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azmodius Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Also, if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions. Also, +1 4 U. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prada Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelsthla-Mental Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Course you can disprove it because it was only written about, as long as enough people go with it. Whoever said history had to be true? It's what's believed to be true. ...Ok, that's stupid, history is suppose to be as accurate as possible, but in the end problems can arise from the simplest of lies or mistranslations. Course, since enough people believe the religious stuff to be true, it is history. Did it really happen? was it a 'conspiracy'. In the end you could become rather paranoid about how far back you can remember is actually true. I never said we 'worship' history, i compared it to worship which may have been jumping the shark, but it was what I did. And yes, whether the war was for the better or not, there is no mistaking that we should honour those men. As for faith, I applaud you on that. Nice speech, and raises good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 God isn't real. It's stupid to discuss something that isn't real when you're above the age of 7 or 8. EDIT; JK!!!!1!!!!!1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORUS Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is one of the reasons I quite despise religion myself, I simply haven't brought it up. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (and Sam Harris as well, I believe) wrote on the topic of how religion controls (or, as Hitchens puts it, poisons) everything. Everything from people and the choices they make to the laws we have about marriage. It's a cult run by fear-mongering idiots. They give you an option - heaven or hell - and tell you heaven is the greatest place ever and hell is the worst place ever, and if you're weak-minded enough, you'll fall for it and believe what they say so you can get out of going to hell. If you're a strong-minded rational person, you'll say, "That's bullshit," and live your life without the bother of heaven and hell hanging over your shoulder. If you're a strong-minded, rational, critical thinking, and concerned person, you'll say, "We need to stop this."Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. Yes, it really did. Take, for example, the Egyptian god Horus. According to scripture, Horus: > was born December 25th> died and was resurrected after 3 days> healed a blind man> was mentored by a man whose name translates to "John", who was beheaded A few other early middle-eastern and eastern religions feature gods or demigods with similarities that are similar to Jesus, and these gods were around at least 2000 years before Jesus' alleged birth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Is this topic about Christianity or religions in general? Fine, I figured it out. Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions. Also, +1 4 U.[/quote'] Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. +1 for Baphomet, nay for Rain. EDIT: And also +1 for Horus for the comparison between Jesus and the god Horus. It's not one of the oldest, what about the Pagan religions that existed thousands of years before? Christian mythology is based A LOT on Judaism and on Pagan myths too.The myth of immaculate conception and birth is very common in religions and so is the concept of rising from the dead.Jesus bears many similarities with Horus, the Turkish god Attis and, ironically, Bacchus who was a god of celebrations, wine, sexuality, etc. In terms of birthdays and resurrection, that is. Not to forget that Christmas, Easter, weddings and funeral services also have their roots in old Pagan religions.Christmas was a Pagan celebration of the sun and Easter is celebrated on the same day as Ostara, the Autumnal Equinox while also sharing similarities with the goddess Ishtar. And so on and so on. In the end, if you take a look at the religions of the world you notice that they have different myths, figures and deities but in the end many similarities.Personally I think the moral advices all come down to pretty much the same: do not harm others, keep certain days "holy", whether it may be the Sabbath or the Equinoxes, do not murder, honour your parents and ancestors, etc. It's just that other than Jahweh you have Hecate, Brahmā, Odin, etc. I agree that some religious people, including Christians, have done a pretty horrible job in controlling and poisoning people and a lot of atrocities were committed in the name of a religion.Some scientifics and politics have also done a pretty horrible job in controlling and poisoning people and a lot of atrocities were committed in their name. But personally what makes it interesting for me is the influence they had in arts and culture. Whether it's good or bad is up to individual opinions.I'm more interested in mythologies and anthropology than beliefs anyway. (I said I wouldn't talk about religions on a forum like YCM but heck.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdogPrime Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is one of the reasons I quite despise religion myself' date=' I simply haven't brought it up. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (and Sam Harris as well, I believe) wrote on the topic of how religion controls (or, as Hitchens puts it, poisons) everything. Everything from people and the choices they make to the laws we have about marriage. It's a cult run by fear-mongering idiots. They give you an option - heaven or hell - and tell you heaven is the greatest place ever and hell is the worst place ever, and if you're weak-minded enough, you'll fall for it and believe what they say so you can get out of going to hell. If you're a strong-minded rational person, you'll say, "That's bullshit," and live your life without the bother of heaven and hell hanging over your shoulder. If you're a strong-minded, rational, critical thinking, and concerned person, you'll say, "We need to stop this."[/quote'] Good luck fighting that war, let me know how it goes. BTW, your use of the word "Religion" is obviously just a thin cover for the fact that you are Christophobic. At least have the guts to say what you mean and not hide behind words. Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. Yes' date=' it really did. Take, for example, the Egyptian god Horus. According to scripture, Horus: > was born December 25th> died and was resurrected after 3 days> healed a blind man> was mentored by a man whose name translates to "John", who was beheaded A few other early middle-eastern and eastern religions feature gods or demigods with similarities that are similar to Jesus, and these gods were around at least 2000 years before Jesus' alleged birth.[/quote'] According to what "scriptures"? Give me a book title, an author, something to confirm this total fantasy you just made up on the spot. Don't try Wikipedia. I just spent a hour pouring over the articles on Egyptian deities and nothing mentions any parallels between Jesus and Horus's birth, death, miracles, or mentors. Back up your claims. You do realize you look like a hypocrite, spouting off about hating people for believing in things that (according to you) don't exist, while naming yourself after an equally (again, your words) non-existent deity. Then going so far as to draw comparisons between Horus and Christ? I think you have a bit of an obssession going on with ole Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Just a clarification on the whole Christmas/Easter/all that other sheet stuff: Emperor Constantine pretty much made up all those holidays by replacing existing pagan ones in order to gain more publicity for Christianity. They aren't actually part of Christian scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Glad that my posts are getting ignored.>_> KdogPrime I totally agree with the first part of your reply. But I have to give the point to Horus about the other part. Of course the existence of (the god) Horus or anyone else can't be proven but there are old scriptures about Egyptian myths that retrace the story around him.He was worshipped as a god who died and resurrected after 3 days just like Jesus and also Attis or Bacchus and they also share the same birthday.The abilities that were assigned to these figures were also similar like the healing powers. With that, I don't mean to say that one religion is better than the other or to point at the whole Christianity being a thief.What I want to say is that there are some connections between the different religions and like I said in the other post I think in the end most of them are quite similar in terms of morality and symbolism. I also don't think calling yourself after a god while not believing into him makes you a hypocrit. I don't worship the moon goddess either. And Catbus I completely agree. Just a clarification on the whole Christmas/Easter/all that other s*** stuff: Emperor Constantine pretty much made up all those holidays by replacing existing pagan ones in order to gain more publicity for Christianity. They aren't actually part of Christian scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Glad that my posts are getting ignored.>_> KdogPrime I totally agree with the first part of your reply. But I have to give the point to Horus about the other part. Of course the existence of (the god) Horus or anyone else can't be proven but there are old scriptures about Egyptian myths that retrace the story around him.He was worshipped as a god who died and resurrected after 3 days just like Jesus and also Attis or Bacchus and they also share the same birthday. Many religious holidays are celebrated on the same day: Christmas <-> celebration of the returning of the sun who was personified as a god' date=' Easter <-> Ostara/the Autumnal Equinox, etc. I don't mean to say that one religion is better than the other or to point at the whole Christianity being a thief.[b']No, Christianity definitely stole those holidays. But they did it well after the religion itself was established. Glad to know my posts are being ignored too :3[/b]What I want to say is that there are some connections between the different religions and like I said in the other post I think in the end most of them are quite similar in terms of morality and symbolism. I also don't think calling yourself after a god while not believing into him makes you a hypocrit. I don't worship the moon goddess either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Yes they stole those holidays, I think we all got that far. If that makes it clearer I'll rephrase that sentence: I don't mean to say that one religion is better than the other or that everything about Christianity or any other religion is integrally stolen from the others. I rather wanted to point at the connections between the different religions. And my posts in this thread were directed at Rain and KdogPrime about Christianity and Paganism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdogPrime Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Glad that my posts are getting ignored.>_> KdogPrime I totally agree with the first part of your reply. But I have to give the point to Horus about the other part. Of course the existence of (the god) Horus or anyone else can't be proven but there are old scriptures about Egyptian myths that retrace the story around him.He was worshipped as a god who died and resurrected after 3 days just like Jesus and also Attis or Bacchus and they also share the same birthday. Many religious holidays are celebrated on the same day: Christmas <-> celebration of the returning of the sun who was personified as a god' date=' Easter <-> Ostara/the Autumnal Equinox, etc. I don't mean to say that one religion is better than the other or to point at the whole Christianity being a thief.[b']No, Christianity definitely stole those holidays. But they did it well after the religion itself was established. Glad to know my posts are being ignored too :3[/b]What I want to say is that there are some connections between the different religions and like I said in the other post I think in the end most of them are quite similar in terms of morality and symbolism. I also don't think calling yourself after a god while not believing into him makes you a hypocrit. I don't worship the moon goddess either. Ignored no longer. True, most Christian holidays are arbitrary days picked to coincide with pagan holidays in order to celebrate the two majors events of Christ's life, namely his birth and death. While it's true that it doesn't say in the Bible that Christians HAVE to set aside days to celebrate the birth and death of Christ, these celebrations were set up to express the Christian's gratitude to Christ for the sacrifices He made. Pagan holidays were selected so that converts to Christianity would not have to memorize a whole new set of holidays. I find this very practical. Is it true that Christianity is not the oldest religion in the world? If you take into account the Bible in it's entirety, the first promise of a Saviour is made in the book of Genesis. Therefore, if the Bible is true history, then that would make Judeo-Christian beliefs the oldest religious beliefs in the world, though I suppose a lot of religions could make that claim, as most if not all have stories of the world's creation. I think this thread should be locked, as it's turning into the same arguement we've all heard time and again ad nauseum. The only way we'll really know who's right is when the world ends. I'm out, see you in 2012 :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 By Christianity not being the oldest religion, I (and probably some other people in this thread) didn't mean when the Christian myths actually start but the roots and creation of the religion itself.Of course most religions have a story about the creation of the world ready. Oh and don't get me started on 2012...Another form of manipulation based partially on religions.:P Off-topic: Duplicate account of Blackwind maybe?O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KdogPrime Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Off-topic: Duplicate account of Blackwind maybe?O_o Why don't you ask him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORUS Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is one of the reasons I quite despise religion myself' date=' I simply haven't brought it up. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (and Sam Harris as well, I believe) wrote on the topic of how religion controls (or, as Hitchens puts it, poisons) everything. Everything from people and the choices they make to the laws we have about marriage. It's a cult run by fear-mongering idiots. They give you an option - heaven or hell - and tell you heaven is the greatest place ever and hell is the worst place ever, and if you're weak-minded enough, you'll fall for it and believe what they say so you can get out of going to hell. If you're a strong-minded rational person, you'll say, "That's bullshit," and live your life without the bother of heaven and hell hanging over your shoulder. If you're a strong-minded, rational, critical thinking, and concerned person, you'll say, "We need to stop this."[/quote'] Good luck fighting that war, let me know how it goes. BTW, your use of the word "Religion" is obviously just a thin cover for the fact that you are Christophobic. At least have the guts to say what you mean and not hide behind words. I seriously laughed when you called me a 'christophobic'. I'm not afraid of religion or Christianity, I think they're just ridiculous and poisonous. I mean this about all religions, not just Christianity. And in any case, what do I have to fear in a group of people who believe an invisible man will get me? Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. Yes' date=' it really did. Take, for example, the Egyptian god Horus. According to scripture, Horus: > was born December 25th> died and was resurrected after 3 days> healed a blind man> was mentored by a man whose name translates to "John", who was beheaded A few other early middle-eastern and eastern religions feature gods or demigods with similarities that are similar to Jesus, and these gods were around at least 2000 years before Jesus' alleged birth.[/quote'] According to what "scriptures"? Give me a book title, an author, something to confirm this total fantasy you just made up on the spot. Don't try Wikipedia. I just spent a hour pouring over the articles on Egyptian deities and nothing mentions any parallels between Jesus and Horus's birth, death, miracles, or mentors. Back up your claims. You do realize you look like a hypocrite, spouting off about hating people for believing in things that (according to you) don't exist, while naming yourself after an equally (again, your words) non-existent deity. Then going so far as to draw comparisons between Horus and Christ? I think you have a bit of an obssession going on with ole Horus. The Book of the Dead and other related scriptures (written by ancient Egyptian priests), which predate the Bible by 3000 years, detail the life of Horus.In addition, you might want to watch Religulous, a documentary that (in one part) explains similarities between Jesus and 4 other deities who predate him by thousands of years. My username is a reference to a song titled Eye Of Horus by Polish technical death metal band Decapitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 This is one of the reasons I quite despise religion myself' date=' I simply haven't brought it up. Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (and Sam Harris as well, I believe) wrote on the topic of how religion controls (or, as Hitchens puts it, poisons) everything. Everything from people and the choices they make to the laws we have about marriage. It's a cult run by fear-mongering idiots. They give you an option - heaven or hell - and tell you heaven is the greatest place ever and hell is the worst place ever, and if you're weak-minded enough, you'll fall for it and believe what they say so you can get out of going to hell. If you're a strong-minded rational person, you'll say, "That's bullshit," and live your life without the bother of heaven and hell hanging over your shoulder. If you're a strong-minded, rational, critical thinking, and concerned person, you'll say, "We need to stop this."[/quote'] Good luck fighting that war, let me know how it goes. BTW, your use of the word "Religion" is obviously just a thin cover for the fact that you are Christophobic. At least have the guts to say what you mean and not hide behind words. I seriously laughed when you called me a 'christophobic'. I'm not afraid of religion or Christianity, I think they're just ridiculous and poisonous. I mean this about all religions, not just Christianity. And in any case, what do I have to fear in a group of people who believe an invisible man will get me? Also' date=' if you look around, Christianity stole many elements from other religions.[/quote'] Not really, bro. ;/ Christianity is one of the oldest religions. Plus, I hardly anything in there that really relates to a different religion. Just saying. Yes' date=' it really did. Take, for example, the Egyptian god Horus. According to scripture, Horus: > was born December 25th> died and was resurrected after 3 days> healed a blind man> was mentored by a man whose name translates to "John", who was beheaded A few other early middle-eastern and eastern religions feature gods or demigods with similarities that are similar to Jesus, and these gods were around at least 2000 years before Jesus' alleged birth.[/quote'] According to what "scriptures"? Give me a book title, an author, something to confirm this total fantasy you just made up on the spot. Don't try Wikipedia. I just spent a hour pouring over the articles on Egyptian deities and nothing mentions any parallels between Jesus and Horus's birth, death, miracles, or mentors. Back up your claims. You do realize you look like a hypocrite, spouting off about hating people for believing in things that (according to you) don't exist, while naming yourself after an equally (again, your words) non-existent deity. Then going so far as to draw comparisons between Horus and Christ? I think you have a bit of an obssession going on with ole Horus. The Book of the Dead and other related scriptures (written by ancient Egyptian priests), which predate the Bible by 3000 years, detail the life of Horus.In addition, you might want to watch Religulous, a documentary that (in one part) explains similarities between Jesus and 4 other deities who predate him by thousands of years. My username is a reference to a song titled Eye Of Horus by Polish technical death metal band Decapitated. Jesus' coming was also predicted for thousands of years before he came. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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