Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Blarg. Eternal ideas are incontrovertible and absolute. They are concepts of what worldly objects are and how humans distinguish with detail how these objects are dissimilar and how they are the identical. For example, when a person is given two differently colored pens and is asked if they are both pens, the person will conclude and respond as such. They know that they are grasping two pens because the idea of the pen is already present in their minds long before they are given the pens. That is, the concept of the perfect model, or mold, for all pens. This mold’s characteristics determine whether or not a person defines a pen as a pen. The perfect pen does not exist. Only the idea of “pen” exists, which is how people identify a pen as a pen and not as a completely different object. (Like a cat, for example.) The eternal idea of the perfect state of an object is immutable and never changing, thus always being apparent in how people distinguish objects from each other and also relate objects to one another. The World of Ideas and the World of Senses describe the world around us in differing manners. The World of Ideas is a perception that goes hand in hand with the theory of Eternal Ideas, in that everything has a perfect form that is not tangible, and is what is used to determine the identity of a tangible object with the same characteristics as it’s perfect form. Additionally, in the World of Senses, if an object is constructed in the real world, such as a building and is torn down, the idea of the object still exists where it was torn down for the rest of eternity. Conversely, in the World of Senses, a person only believes in what they see. If a building were made and torn down in the World of Senses, the building wouldn’t exist any more. In the World of Senses, this idea is considered as truth, wherein lies the dilemma. True knowledge cannot be objective of anything that you see. An example would be an angle in a triangle. You can use the most accurate measuring device in the world to prove that the angle is 90 degrees, but the device will never be correct because the only way the angle would be a perfect right angle would be if you imagined it. But because the angle is in the World of Senses, there is no way to be sure it is perfect. The only way to assume the angle is 90 degrees would be to have the angle in the World of Ideas. While the World of Senses involves only the physical forms of objects and concepts, the World of Ideas entails the concepts of Eternal Ideas and the idea of “perfect-ness” of notions such as angle measure. I had to write these for my English class and was wondering if you might like to critique it a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 tl;dr Care to summarize, but still keep the main aspect going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 tl;dr Care to summarize' date=' but still keep the main aspect going?[/quote'] It's really hard to put it in less words than that but I can try. Eternal Ideas tl;dr: Instead of a pen existing in the real world, you recognize it as a pen because you imagine the perfect form of it, being the "idea of pen". The concept of Eternal Ideas revolves around this and states that this "World of Ideas" is how you and I distinguish one object or thing from another. World of Ideas vs. World of Senses tl;dr: The World of Senses is only exclusive to your 5 senses, mainly what you see. Meaning, if you see it you can believe it. The World of Ideas is basically an intangible notion of beliefs of perfect objects unattainable by the World Senses. Because these perfect thins are unattainable, like a perfect circle for example, we just accept a that if we call a circle perfect we are saying we know it isn't but we are imagining it is. That's really the closest I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Are you meaning to say the World of Senses are limited to the 5 senses we have, but the World of Ideas plays off of tricks on our minds? For example, you see an ALMOST symmetrical painting. That'd be the World of Senses. Another person sees that painting and automatically assumes it is symmetrical, even though it is not, meaning that is the World of Ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Are you meaning to say the World of Senses are limited to the 5 senses we have' date=' but the World of Ideas plays off of tricks on our minds? For example, you see an ALMOST symmetrical painting. That'd be the World of Senses. Another person sees that painting and automatically assumes it is symmetrical, even though it is not, meaning that is the World of Ideas.[/quote'] In a sense, yes. As for the first question, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 So what exactly is the World of Ideas? What are the limits to it, if any exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 So what exactly is the World of Ideas? What are the limits to it' date=' if any exist?[/quote'] That's where the readings I had on it don't talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 An example would be an angle in a triangle. You can use the most accurate measuring device in the world to prove that the angle is 90 degrees, but the device will never be correct because the only way the angle would be a perfect right angle would be if you imagined it. But because the angle is in the World of Senses, there is no way to be sure it is perfect. The only way to assume the angle is 90 degrees would be to have the angle in the World of Ideas. Once again, there is a simple explanation for this. A triangle has 180 degees. Both in the World of Senses and the World of Ideas, this is true. You can prove that an angle is 90 degrees if the other two add up to 90 degrees. But then you'd say that you cannot prove those add up to 90 except in the World of Ideas. But, in the World of Ideas, if I imagined myself as a CEO, I still would not be. So imagining an acute angle becoming right changes nothing in the World of Ideas or the World of Senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Since I see where this is apparently going, I'm going to amend my statement about limiting. The ideas like a perfect right angle in the World of Ideas are accepted as fact. Applications like math are not. But, in the World of Ideas, if I imagined myself as a CEO, I still would not be. So imagining an acute angle becoming right changes nothing in the World of Ideas or the World of Senses. The World of Ideas is mainly a place for fact and for reference and not for imagination. Imagining an acute angle becoming right does in fact change nothing in either Worlds, so could you explain your reasoning for bringing that point up other than some want to destroy this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 What you were saying is that a right angle, even when proved by math, cannot exist as a right angle unless you imagine in the World of Ideas that it is a right angle. So, if I imagine myself a CEO, using your logic, it would make me a CEO in the World of Ideas, but it obviously doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Sir Posted September 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 What you were saying is that a right angle' date=' even when proved by math, cannot exist as a right angle unless you imagine in the World of Ideas that it is a right angle. So, if I imagine myself a CEO, using your logic, it would make me a CEO in the World of Ideas, but it obviously doesn't.[/quote'] It can't be proven by Math unless you assume the angle measurement of the other angles as well. Amirite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 13, 2009 Report Share Posted September 13, 2009 Assuming you knew the other angle measurements. But then you'd say you cannot know the measurements unless you imagine them in the World of Ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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