discuss: the "pro" heavy move

[.:pyramid:.]

this move is seeing increasing play at the moment on the tourny seen at the moment. so in this post why dont we actually discuss how pro it is.

 

the move

 

consists of setting heavy storm, along with a chainable card durring your turn. then during your opponents turn you activate this chainable card so it woudlnt be worth it to heavy, if they have it. so your opponent will be likely to end his or her turn with setting a few cards thinking its safe to do so. then durring your turn you flip over heavy storm to gain the advantage.

 

when to play it.

 

well because heavy is limited, it is very unlikely to be countered by heavy storm so its a very safe play in terms of the chance of not lossing any advantage. also think about this;

. you have a 2.8% chance of drawing heavy storm on your first turn normally.

. thats 97.2% chance your opponent will not have it in their first turn, so it has a high sucess rate.

. also if your opponent also uses his/her maths they will think its safe to set 2 backrow cards aswell because you did, so in their mind their is little chance they will get hit by heavy early on.

 

of course as the game goes on the odds dont do in your favour and makes it very likely to be countered, and this can be easilly read because of the mentality of setting 2 or more backrow cards.

 

discuss this moves alsumness.

 

note: i have been trying this a couple of times today and it is a nice way to bait advantage

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

It's been working for me. Been doing it myself a lot. Worst case scenario for their first turn is, like, Breaker or Lyla, but they're hardly gonna cost you the game. If they Typhoon it or something you're still getting your card's worth, and you'll be able to hit 2 cards with your Set Storm more than they'll be able to destroy it without losing a card in the process.

[BehindTheMask]

"pro" storm isn't that pro.

 

I've been doing it for years.

[Jesus]

"pro" storm isn't that pro.

 

I've been doing it for years.

[Fraz]

It's just a form of bluffing. If you haven't been bluffing then you're playing yugioh wrong.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Well, it's a little different from I'd say. Bluffing's just to protect another set card or to intimidate your opponent, or possibly a little bit of both. "Pro Storm" isn't the same as just setting any Normal Spell, as it actually has a different purpose.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

It's not "bluffing". The point is that is you set cards, your opponent will be unlikely to expect storm, as they will imagine you have commitment to your back row. But since your back row IS storm, their new confidence in setting cards will cost them.

[shadowferret]

I don't use Heavy Storm. I just like negating stuffs with Royal Decree...>_>

 

But this seems kinda... how do you say? Obvious?

[iAmNateXero]

I don't use Heavy Storm. I just like negating stuffs with Royal Decree...>_>

 

But this seems kinda... how do you say? Obvious?

 

Except to most players setting non chainable cards outside of Card destruction and Morphing Jar is retarded.

[Fraz]

Setting storm makes your opponent think you have a torrent/mirror/bottomless face down so they won't overextend if they're good at the game. Because they won't overextend on their monsters they may overextend on their spells and traps.

 

Making your opponent think you have something you don't have and making them do what you want them to in the process is pretty much what bluffing is.

[daboss144]

It's a good move, but the first time I saw it done I laughed so hard I fell off my dinosaur.

 

Translated: It's a good move, and I'm glad it's seeing increased play. Unfortunately, some konami official was quoted as saying that heavy is going to be banned, so get the most use you can out of it now.

[Dad]

It's a good move' date=' but the first time I saw it done I laughed so hard I fell off my dinosaur.

 

Translated: It's a good move, and I'm glad it's seeing increased play. Unfortunately, some konami official was quoted as saying that heavy is going to be banned, so get the most use you can out of it now.

[/quote']

 

Pics/links or GTFO. Not that I dbout you, but I still want proof.

 

People at my locals use this move. Quite common.

[Fraz]

It was all over pojo. Kevin was just messing with us.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

So in other words, it's just a fancy word for "bluffing"?

[Exiro]

. you have a 2.8% chance of drawing heavy storm on your first turn normally.

. thats 97.2% chance your opponent will not have it in their first turn' date=' so it has a high sucess rate.

[/quote']

 

That can't be right. Let's try that again.

 

Chance = (1/40+1/39+1/38+1/37+1/36+1/35)

 

Anyway, the chance of 16% is still small enough for the move to be safe.

 

 

Also, this should be very obvious, but here's when not to use this:

1. Your opponent has more than 2 s/ts on the field.
   
2. Your opponent hasn't played any s/ts during the previous turn.
   
3. Your opponent has Geartown face-up and you have nothing to run over Gadjiltron Dragon, or a similar situation.
   

 

 

And this move is by the way more flexible than this. You can, for example, set Normal Spells, or use just one card, which can be a chainable s/t, non-chainable spell and Heavy itself.

[Fraz]

. you have a 2.8% chance of drawing heavy storm on your first turn normally.

. thats 97.2% chance your opponent will not have it in their first turn' date=' so it has a high sucess rate.

[/quote']

 

That can't be right. Let's try that again.

 

Chance = (1/40+1/39+1/38+1/37+1/36+1/35)

 

Anyway, the chance of 16% is still small enough for the move to be safe.

 

 

Also, this should be very obvious, but here's when not to use this:

1. Your opponent has more than 2 s/ts on the field.
   
2. Your opponent hasn't played any s/ts during the previous turn.
   
3. Your opponent has Geartown face-up and you have nothing to run over Gadjiltron Dragon, or a similar situation.
   

 

 

And this move is by the way more flexible than this. You can, for example, set Normal Spells, or use just one card, which can be a chainable s/t, non-chainable spell and Heavy itself.

 

You draw 6 cards in your first turn...

 

Also, when your opponent has 2 cards set it's a good idea to set storm assuming you won't lose next turn. Setting storm can prompt an end phase wing blast which will put it to the top of the deck. If they wing blast they will probably play another card face down next turn so your storm will hit more cards.

 

Setting storm is good when your opponent has geartown out... you're not exactly gonna be activating it any time soon after all.

 

If you know your opponent is playing lightsworn, don't try and pro storm. It just doesn't work the same way.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Upon only the slightest bit of thinking, I've come to the conclusion that the above play is horrible.

 

Since I'll have some stupid trolls just turning this into a "no u" contest, I'll actually bother to explain my reasoning this time.

 

The entire play is based on a huge amount of assumption. It assumes you get Heavy Storm opening hand and that you go first. It assumes your opponent plays like a stupid ass, and lastly it assumes you'd have a chainable along with it in your opening hand, which isn't too hard of a thing to assume, there quite a few chainables in the game.

 

However, let's look over the list of commonly run chainables. Threatening Roar, Waboku, Bottomless Trap Hole, Shrink, Book of Moon, Beckoning Light, Icarus Attack, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, Burial from a Different Dimension, and probably a few more generic ones I'm missing.

 

Absolutely zero of them would be helpful before your opponent used Heavy Storm, if they had it opening hand, other then Threatening Roar and Waboku. The move is meant to discourage your opponent from using Heavy Storm to destroy just one card, however the fact that your chainable won't get a chance to go off before your opponents MP1 is a huge detriment to this "pro" move.

 

That's not to say you couldn't, for example, use Book of Moon on your Goblin Zombie or Shrink your Jain, Lightsworn Paladin, or use Compulsory on your Shura, or Thretening Roar on their Draw Phase, however, unless you're dueling a god awful duelist, it's sure to set up red flags. "Hey, a better move would have been to wait for me to summon a monster, and THEN use whatever he was planning."

 

So unless your plan is too look like an awful duelist to lull your opponent into a false sense of security about you being a god awful duelist, it's not gonna work. Not to mention there are better ways to lull your opponent into a false sense of security, like shaking when pretending to be nervous, stuttering, announcing the card or card-type you set ("I set this Mirror F- I mean..." When it's Book of Moon.)

 

So, pretty much the move only works well in two situations. First, if you drew Heavy Storm first, and your opponent didn't, but that's like trying to insist that "SS your Dark Armed Dragon before your opponent SSes his" is some kind of stratedgy worth talking about and isn't basic common sense. The second scenario is when you perform the same, your opponent does draw Heavy Storm, but is stupid enough not to think to use until you've given him a position in which you can chain your face down.

 

The whole entire "pro"ness of it is that the you think you're outwitting your opponent into playing a way you want him to, when not all duelists play as awful as you think they will, and is completely undermined by the fact that there are probably a bunch of much safer plays.

 

tl;dr: Don't bluff with powerful cards unless you're dueling scrubs.

[RyanAtlus]

Just keep Storm in your hand for when you need it goddamnit.

[iAmNateXero]

Out side of turn 1, and you going First. "Pro" Heavy isn't advised.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

^ Especially during turn 1, I'd not advise "pro heavy", since your chainable has nothing to chain to if your opponent has no cards on the field yet.

[Master Hyperion]

ITT: Mystical Space Typhoon does not exists when it comes to bluffing.

 

Also, I faced a few people who Set their Heavy Storm. Terrible bluff.

[Exiro]

If you know your opponent is playing lightsworn' date=' don't try and pro storm. It just doesn't work the same way.

[/quote']

 

Oh yeah, true. Same with GBs, btw.

 

 

It assumes you get Heavy Storm opening hand

 

This move is about what to do when you draw Heavy Storm which will occur sooner or later' date=' so that doesn't matter.

 

 

and that you go first.

 

Who said that?

 

 

It assumes your opponent plays like a stupid ass' date='

[/quote']

 

Actually, it assumes the opponent plays perfectly sensible.

 

 

and lastly it assumes you'd have a chainable along with it in your opening hand' date=' which isn't too hard of a thing to assume, there quite a few chainables in the game.

 

However, let's look over the list of commonly run chainables. Threatening Roar, Waboku, Bottomless Trap Hole, Shrink, Book of Moon, Beckoning Light, Icarus Attack, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, Burial from a Different Dimension, and probably a few more generic ones I'm missing.

 

Absolutely zero of them would be helpful before your opponent used Heavy Storm, if they had it opening hand, other then Threatening Roar and Waboku.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, but that's only if your opponent has Heavy Storm in the opening hand. That's 16% chance.

 

 

The move is meant to discourage your opponent from using Heavy Storm to destroy just one card' date=' however the fact that your chainable won't get a chance to go off before your opponents MP1 is a huge detriment to this "pro" move.

[/quote']

 

Wait, you're getting it all wrong. This move is to encourage the opponent to overextend so that your Heavy Storm will be as effective as possible. Since you didn't get it, the rest of your post is irrelevant.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

This move is about what to do when you draw Heavy Storm which will occur sooner or later, so that doesn't matter.

 

You play it if they have S/Ts. You keep it in hand if they don't. It's not difficult.

 

Actually, it assumes the opponent plays perfectly sensible.

 

Poppycock. No sensible player wouldn't go for a +1 if given the chance (IE, not instantly play Storm on their first turn, if opponent set two cards). No sensible player would assume their opponent wouldn't go for a 1-1.

 

This move is to encourage the opponent to overextend so that your Heavy Storm will be as effective as possible. Since you didn't get it, the rest of your post is irrelevant.

 

But the problem with that is that it's a terribad way of encouraging overextension. Just bluffing Heavy Storm and nothing else is a better move, since it accomplishes everything we've set out to do in the first post. Just setting a chainable is a better move, since it accomplishes significantly more then the "set Storm" move, since you can actually do something should push come to shove. Setting a chainable and Heavy Storm is a horrible move, practically any time, because it sets you up to lose horribly if your opponent does draw into Storm.

 

 

LAWL! 16%! D-Draw and Allure of Darkness called.

[Exiro]

This move is to encourage the opponent to overextend so that your Heavy Storm will be as effective as possible. Since you didn't get it' date=' the rest of your post is irrelevant.[/quote']

 

But the problem with that is that it's a terribad way of encouraging overextension. Just bluffing Heavy Storm and nothing else is a better move, since it accomplishes everything we've set out to do in the first post. Just setting a chainable is a better move, since it accomplishes significantly more then the "set Storm" move, since you can actually do something should push come to shove. Setting a chainable and Heavy Storm is a horrible move, practically any time, because it sets you up to lose horribly if your opponent does draw into Storm.

 

Take a look at the underlined part. This is what people are assuming when they see that the opponent has 1 face-down s/t. In other words, Heavy in the opponent's hand still isn't a weird thought, and setting 2 s/ts still isn't a safe play. People have figured this out a long time ago.

[tonisanoob]

if you ask me setting 1 backrow could mean anything!

 

bottomless

mirror force

roar

 

pro storm in my oppinion is stupid, id rather not waste my storm first turn, not only this who thinks in the way pro storm is ment to make your opponent think?

 

if people have cards to set they set them if they need them, no body goes oh he set 2 now i will

 

id rather keep storm in hand to use when im about to game