Atem's Penultimate Ban List; Due for an Update ??

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

I mean really' date=' thank the gods.

[/quote']

 

Why is Swing of Memories balanced?

When creating a banlist your aim is to prove the opposite. 8)

[Static]

this list is worst than the konami one. Seriously' date=' Was it nessecary to ban black whirlwind? or Vayu? most of these cards where fine as they where on the list.

 

I bet he just hates those cards.

[/quote']

 

Vayu is banned for the sole purpose of allowing Burial to go back to three, since it is obvious that Vayu is the less fair card and should as a result be punished. It's the same reason that Demise should be banned so that ARA can go back to three, one card is obviously more unfair than the other.

 

Whirlwind is a stupid +1, that you can use over and over. It instantly replaces itself and any additional uses get you advantage.

 

Of all the cards you could have chose to question, those were not the two I expected to be questioned.

 

Seriously!?!? Foolish Burial can set up other powerful plays besides Vayu, Demise is waaay slower than JD, Whirlwind is fine at 2. This list is jank!

 

Burial From a Different Dimension, not Foolish Burial.

 

All cards that create needless advantage should be banned, so that the game is as much based on skill as possible. Demise and Judgment Dragon both create silly advantage for the cost of lollifepoints. Have you ever played Demise OTK? I doubt it, let me tell you it's probably the most consistent OTK to have ever been developed in this game's history.

 

I will not take any more arguments that try to defend Demise being at anything but 0 seriously.

 

Also, for anyone that hasn't figured this out, this list is NOT SUPPOSED TO FIX THE CURRENT META. This list itself is supposed to create a completely different Meta, one where skill would determine how successful a player is.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Card advantage is needed, because that is what the whole game revolves around. Just gaining advantage trought battle and 1 for 1s takes no skill, you would just need Beatdown decks to win everything.

 

The general concept, nonetheless, is right. However, the application of it is not. Really, some cards that you banned are really fine at 1, or even at 2 or 3. Let's review:

 

Acumulated Fortune

If game is going to take skill to play, this card needs to be in. Its activation cost is ridiculous, no one will ever play it. It needs deck dedication and skill to play. Fine at 3.

 

All-Out Attacks

What's the point of this? Stop "Cactus Fighter OTK"?

 

Black Rose Dragon

You need lifesavers that can reset the field, and this card not only blows your cards too, but also kills itself. Skill doesn't win games by itself, even more when you're opponent is just stalling all the time. It's fine at Limited.

 

Blackwing - Kalut, the Moon Shadow

Other Blackwing or Blackwing support cards listed above have no place in a meta such as the one you describe, but Kalut... Really? An archetype-specific that only gives 1400 ATK for a turn? You could leave it at 2, it would do no harm, specially considering that Blackwings tend to have low ATK.

 

Call of the Haunted

I think this one needs playtesting on the meta you describe. I don't think it is broken enough to be banned, but I could just be wrong.

 

From here on, skipping most of the cards to the ones that shocked me the most.

 

Evil Hero Dark Gaia

Why?!

 

Sky Scourge Norleras

If Phantom of Chaos is banned, what's the harm of this card? It's unplayable, requires deck dedication and skill. Limit it.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Also, I don't see the harm to some of the broken monsters you put on the list, since "Hammer Shot", "Fissure" and "Smashing Ground" are all at 3.

[BehindTheMask]

Ban every card from TSHD.

 

Have a good format.

[Static]

Card advantage is needed' date=' because that is what the whole game revolves around. Just gaining advantage trought battle and 1 for 1s takes no skill, you would just need Beatdown decks to win everything.

 

The general concept, nonetheless, is right. However, the application of it is not. Really, some cards that you banned are really fine at 1, or even at 2 or 3. Let's review:

 

[b']Acumulated Fortune[/b]

If game is going to take skill to play, this card needs to be in. Its activation cost is ridiculous, no one will ever play it. It needs deck dedication and skill to play. Fine at 3.

 

All-Out Attacks

What's the point of this? Stop "Cactus Fighter OTK"?

 

Black Rose Dragon

You need lifesavers that can reset the field, and this card not only blows your cards too, but also kills itself. Skill doesn't win games by itself, even more when you're opponent is just stalling all the time. It's fine at Limited.

 

Blackwing - Kalut, the Moon Shadow

Other Blackwing or Blackwing support cards listed above have no place in a meta such as the one you describe, but Kalut... Really? An archetype-specific that only gives 1400 ATK for a turn? You could leave it at 2, it would do no harm, specially considering that Blackwings tend to have low ATK.

 

Call of the Haunted

I think this one needs playtesting on the meta you describe. I don't think it is broken enough to be banned, but I could just be wrong.

 

From here on, skipping most of the cards to the ones that shocked me the most.

 

Evil Hero Dark Gaia

Why?!

 

Sky Scourge Norleras

If Phantom of Chaos is banned, what's the harm of this card? It's unplayable, requires deck dedication and skill. Limit it.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

Also, I don't see the harm to some of the broken monsters you put on the list, since "Hammer Shot", "Fissure" and "Smashing Ground" are all at 3.

 

Many of the things you questioned were on the original list, which I did not create. Evil Hero Dark Gaia has some sort of OTK related to him while Norleras is just the same, except it was much better when you could Phoenix Feather --> Dimension Fusion and then Norleras blows up to get D Fusion and GG. Without D Fusion the options are limited, but there are still ways to make him work.

 

The two changes I made, which were Black Rose and Kalut, I will address.

 

Kalut is a card I have a problem with conceptually. The idea of what is essentially a "Sak Armor from the hand" is an absurd concept. I'm not banning him for the sake of making the Blackwing archetype, it's the fact that like Honest, all cards that work like that should be banned. They're stupid, promote skill-less-ness, all around cheesyness. No fun.

 

I simply don't agree with you on Black Rose. I don't think that a good meta would run a reset button, no matter how hard the damn thing was to get out. That's what your Nobleman of Crossouts / Breakers / MST's / Smashing Grounds are for, you can run cards to get over anything if you so desire, if you know what you're doing you should be successful.

---

Ban every card from TSHD.

 

Have a good format.

 

NIMBLE SUNFISH IS NOT HAPPY WITH YOU D':

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

I love how Mezuki and Foolish Burial are unlimited on this list. <3

 

Ban Plague.

Mezuki can go to 3.

 

But Foolish is unacceptable.

 

Also.

 

Morphing Jar @3?

 

*shudders*

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Eh, Morphing Jar is kind of hyped in that your opponent is receiving 5 new cards as well and has a turn to set-up with them, assuming he flips it on his turn.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Eh' date=' Morphing Jar is kind of hyped in that your opponent is receiving 5 new cards as well and has a turn to set-up with them, assuming he flips it on his turn.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, but imagine that +s that come off of MJar multiplied by 3. :\

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Eh' date=' Morphing Jar is kind of hyped in that your opponent is receiving 5 new cards as well and has a turn to set-up with them, assuming he flips it on his turn.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, but imagine that +s that come off of MJar multiplied by 3. :\

 

The same concept pretty much applies. I can see your logic, but it just seems like Flip Trolls would only benefit from this.

[SephirothKirby]

3 Morphing Jar

3 Book of Moon

3 Book of Eclipse

3 Book of Taiyou

 

My favourite format :3

 

Foolish is a -1, it should be @3.

 

Techno started off strong, but I lost any respect for him by the end of his post.

 

Kalut and Honest are some of the more skillful cards this game offers. It's just that Honest is too much.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

Torrential at 3

Oppression at 3

Bottomless at 3

 

heeee I lost 1 Grand Mole but OPPRESSION CODALUS IS NOT DEAD HERE:::HECK YEAH!!!

 

inb4ionlyreallycare

[-Griffin]

I've got to say, I don't agree with this logic at all. Sorry, but in my mind, a lot of skill comes from reading the opponent and playing safely that something like a BRD nuke wouldn't lose you the game. Taking away things that a player needs to read, such as Kal'ut, and risks such as BRD, doesn't promote skill in my eyes. I'm sure others disagree, but this just isn't the type of format I'd enjoy.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Mezuki can go to 3.

 

But Foolish is unacceptable.

 

That's retarded. ^_____________^

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Mezuki can go to 3.

 

But Foolish is unacceptable.

 

That's retarded. ^_____________^

 

Ban Plague, ban Zombiegoblin.

[The Tin Trooper]

Mezuki can go to 3.

 

But Foolish is unacceptable.

 

That's retarded. ^_____________^

 

Ban Plague' date=' ban Zombiegoblin.

[/quote']

 

Why everyone be hatin' on Zombehs? D':

[Blaze Pyro]

With this format Monarchs are top. Now you want to ban Substitoad Ronintoadin and D.D. Survivor.

 

Then Gaia the Fierce Knight will be top and then you'll want to ban Spiral Spear Strike because it allows you to draw cards over and over again.

 

Having lots of good decks in this game is what makes it good because there is so much choice. However if you just ban everything we will only have Beatstick decks left.

 

A good player will be able to work around the abilities of strong cards.

 

[spoiler=Corrections (My Opinion)]

ACCUMULATED FORTUNE - Difficult to get to link 4. Its at 3 and nobody uses it. Requires Deck dedication. 3

BRAIN CONTROL - Can be worked around, fine at 1.

BRIONAC – DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER - Can be worked around, fine at 1, thank goodness its attack is relatively low.

 

CALL OF THE HAUNTED - Requires 1 turn set-up. Good in battle phase but you still need a beatstick of somesort to stop your opponent from attacking. 1

CARD DESTRUCTION - You have to discard all of your cards only worth it when most good cards are banned.

CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON - Either this or FF and Overload fusion 2

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON - Either this or FF and Overload fusion 2

COLD WAVE - Requires some skill because it limits yourself. 1

CYBER DRAGON - 1 because it can be specialed easily but requires skill to face.

CYBER END DRAGON - Not enough Cyber Dragons so this is useless 3

CYBER TWIN DRAGON - Even with Cyber Dragon at 2 now this is unused so 2/3.

DANDYLION - Too easy to get to grave but not entirely bad. 1

DARK ARMED DRAGON - Overpowered but... 1

DARK HOLE - With Starlight and your own monsters destroyed I want this at 1.

DARKLORD ZERATO - Do people use this? At 2.

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS - Less than 1500 only really get rid of Snipe Hunters and Sangans and has a high cost so 3.

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON - OK at 2

DESTINY HERO - PLASMA - nobody likes tributes, this needs 3 so at 3.

EPIDEMIC ERADICATION VIRUS - Even higher cost and unused anyway. 3

EMERGENCY TELEPORT - 1 it's reign is over and psychics need a boost.

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA - A beatstick yet requires some skill and not used much 3.

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE - Still inconsistent, prehaps limit Trade-in but not Morphing Jar. 1.

FINAL COUNTDOWN - Usable but not enough 2.

FIVE HEADED DRAGON - Only here because FF is at 3.

GIANT TRUNADE - We need a way to get rid of traps like Mirror Force, it only does it for a turn and lots can be just chained to it. 1 if not 2.

GORZ THE EMMISARY OF DARKNESS - Play-around-able 1 or 2.

GOTTOMS’ EMERGENCY CALL - Over powered yet can be used to counter sabers so 1.

GOYO GUARDIAN - its a bit much but 1

HEAVY STORM - with starlight, 1.

HONEST - over powered 1. Also semi beckoning light.

INFERNITY LAUNCHER - too good, 1.

JUDGMENT DRAGON - too good, easier to use than DAD yet lolnami put it at 2, I say 1.

LAST WILL - I don't know why this is banned, I'm sure there's a good reason.

LONEFIRE BLOSSOM - at 1 and limit tytanital.

LIFE EQUALIZER - When are the difference in points going to be that huge and if you were up by that much you should have field advantage enough anyway, 3.

LIMITER REMOVAL - Makes OTKs so 1

MACHINE DUPLICATION - lots of machines to choose so 1/2.

MAGICAL EXPLOSION - 1 or 0 can do lots of damage.

MASS DRIVER - stops lots of good OTKs that require skill, limit substitoad and ronintoad put this at 3.

MEGAMORPH - I understand but if used on you it wont be there for long, if used on oneself you will soon get more points bringing your monster down, 1/2.

MEZUKI - Too much swarming 1.

MIND CONTROL - 1 can' do much with it other than sycnhro or get something out of the way.

MIND MASTER - Sets up some OTKs, 2.

MORPHING JAR - 1 is OK, it's too loveable.

NATURIA BEAST - 1 never seen naturias used though

NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE - 1 stops pesky cards but then becomes pesky.

OJAMA TRIO - Synchro food now, yet with all out attacks, 1.

ONE FOR ONE - 1 stop the other problems.

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE - to easily abused 1.

REVERSAL QUIZ - Shouldn't be banned because its too unreliable, even afteer your points switch you need to be sure that you can finish your opponent

SANGAN - not completely banable, 1.

SNIPE HUNTER - backfires, 1.

SUMMONER MONK - requires spell loss, 1.

SWING OF MEMORIES - no

TRAGOEDIA - 1 because it can have low attack and can be dueled around.

TRAP DUSTSHOOT - irritating 1

ULIMATE OFFERING - not used though seemingly over powered, 2.

UNITED WE STAND - 1/2 can get to powerful

XX-SABER FAULTROLL - 1 stops loops.

 

 

I sometimes wish there would be rules like: Your total number of Infernity Launchers, Infernity Archfiends and Infernity Necromancers combined must not exceed 3.

This means there is some diversity yet still fair.

 

It would be a surprise one day if they completely banned Infernities and brought back somethign old like, Yata-Garasu.

Or each format they jumble everything around reasonably so that we can reuse our old cards and also the way we play will constantly change.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

Blaze pyro is awful

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I've got to say' date=' I don't agree with this logic at all. Sorry, but in my mind, a lot of skill comes from reading the opponent and playing safely that something like a BRD nuke wouldn't lose you the game. Taking away things that a player needs to read, such as Kal'ut, and risks such as BRD, doesn't promote skill in my eyes. I'm sure others disagree, but this just isn't the type of format I'd enjoy.

[/quote']

 

Skill in Yu-Gi-Oh is the identification of imbalances between their position and their opponent's (such as Life Points, resources in hand, resources face-up on the field, resources face-down on the field, Graveyard resources, and Extra Deck resources, etc), proper consideration of which imbalances they should prioritize, and how to treat the imbalances they've chosen to take seriously, keeping in mind that in treating an imbalance you could be making other imbalances for yourself.

 

The game is even until imbalances are found and made use of.

 

Cards become unfair when they allow for overease of imbalance management. It would be hard for a card to help manage your imbalances if it simply does not have the properties suited for the imbalance you'd like to exploit or if your opponent can easily render the card in question unsuitable for imbalance management by sending it to the Graveyard, etc.

 

Conversely, if your opponent cannot be expected to thwart a card and its properties to manage imbalances in their opponent's favour, the card is of course too good at managing imbalances.

 

Kalut and Black Rose Dragon can indeed be seen to promote skill by increasing the difficulty it makes to manage all imbalances appropriately with the resources at hand, but the question here is whether or not it would be expected to be possible for an opponent to either stop Kalut or Black Rose Dragon at the spot, or whether they should be expected to be capable of seeking other imbalances which they could use to outweigh the imbalances caused by Kalut and Black Rose Dragon.

 

If they can be expected to routinely manage Kalut and Black Rose Dragon and the imbalances they bring to the table with difficulty, yet there still being a possible way to without creating further problems for oneself, these cards can be said to promote skill.

 

If it cannot be expected that resources splashable into a given Decktype can manage these cards, the player in question must choose a different Decktype which is capable of using cards which make Kalut and BRD possible to play around, or if such a Decktype does not exist, Kalut and Black Rose Dragon must be banned.

 

Now, it's clear that there are currently Decktypes capable of overpowering cards like Kalut and BRD without much difficulty or without much skill required, but this could be in part because the Decktypes in question use banworthy cards themselves. And so, this "debris" must be cleared, the question here being, once the debris IS cleared, do we have a format in which it is possible to manage the cards most frequently used, but with difficulty?

 

If so, you have a skilled format, if not, more cards must be banned. If it so happens that this loop repeats until all or most cards are banned, the only solution is that new cards be made until this "skilled format" is reached.

 

And so, a banlist itself cannot necessarily solve the problems within the game if too many cards were based on unreasonable standards of how heavily cards should be able to remedy or accelerate imbalances, new cards must be introduced into the pool until the game becomes a skilled format.

 

Mezuki can go to 3.

 

But Foolish is unacceptable.

 

That's retarded. ^_____________^

 

Ban Plague' date=' ban Zombiegoblin.

[/quote']

 

Mezuki's reward heavily outweighs its cost in the goal of the manipulation of imbalances, making it not merely difficult to deal with, but more difficult than is reasonable. In other words, it's banworthy. The removal of a card from the Graveyard does little to inconvenience oneself and provide imbalances on your side for your opponent to work with, but gives you a large Zombie-Type monster fit for the imbalances within the current situation to be slowed or accelerated.

 

A good player will be able to work around the abilities of strong cards.

 

A valid point, but when the "strong cards'" abilities make it so that it's unreasonable for even a "good player" to be expected to manage the imbalances they create with skillful calculation of how to recover from the imbalances it creates, be it by going down a different imbalance path or by dealing with the imbalance created by the cards in question, the cards must be banned.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

ACCUMULATED FORTUNE - Difficult to get to link 4. Its at 3 and nobody uses it. Requires Deck dedication. 3

 

It's difficult to get to link 4' date=' IN THIS META. A banlist creates a new meta.

 

BRAIN CONTROL - Can be worked around, fine at 1.

BRIONAC – DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER - Can be worked around, fine at 1, thank goodness its attack is relatively low.

 

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

CYBER END DRAGON - Not enough Cyber Dragons so this is useless 3

CYBER TWIN DRAGON - Even with Cyber Dragon at 2 now this is unused so 2/3.

 

Don't be stupid. Metamorphosis is unlimited on this list. It's way too easy to get this card out.

 

DARK ARMED DRAGON - Overpowered but... 1

DARK HOLE - With Starlight and your own monsters destroyed I want this at 1.

 

You're embarrassing yourself if you honestly think that.

 

DEMISE' date=' KING OF ARMAGEDDON - OK at 2[/quote']

 

See above.

 

EMERGENCY TELEPORT - 1 it's reign is over and psychics need a boost.

 

Makes tuners hit the field too quickly.

 

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA - A beatstick yet requires some skill and not used much 3.

 

What skill? It's a one card Beatstick.

 

FINAL COUNTDOWN - Usable but not enough 2.

 

You have the same problems with 2 Final Countdowns as you do 1' date=' or 3, or any other number. Waboku, Threatening Roar, Battle Fader, and plenty of other battle blocking cards.

 

GIANT TRUNADE - We need a way to get rid of traps like Mirror Force, it only does it for a turn and lots can be just chained to it. 1 if not 2.

 

Makes Tempest FTK ridiculously consistent.

 

LIMITER REMOVAL - Makes OTKs so 1

 

... I don't think you understand how banlist logic works.

 

With that said' date=' reading the rest of your list is making me sick, so I'm just gonna quit here.

 

 

Atem's Penultimate Ban List

 

This is his second-to-last ban list?

 

It's always called the "Penultimate Ban List" because as long as Konami continues making cards he'll always have more cards to think about. It won't be the 'ultimate list' until the game makers have quit making cards.

[-Griffin]

Waboku/Mind Crush > Kal'ut

Book of Moon/Starlight/Solemn > BRD

 

There are very splashable counters, I don't see them as ruining the game in the slightest. IMO, apart from the recent Xaber/Infernity support, the current format is very good.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

A banlist alone cannot optimize the level of skill possible for this game. The game's current level of skill is much below what it could be.

[Static]

@Griffin: The fact that a card can be countered does not make the effect of the card any less cheesy. A Black Rose Dragon is a field bomb that takes 2 turns or less to set up for, and can generate a good deal of advantage if it is not taken care of, usually for less than is put into it.

 

Kal'ut, though like BRD he is counterable, is something your opponent (with Black Whirlwind at 0) generally will not know when to expect, much like Honest. It takes no skill to discard an Honest or Kal'ut, and it takes no lack of skill to run into one. If there existed any other card with a similar sort of effect for a different archetype, no matter how lousy the archetype was, I would list that card as banned, simply because of how cheesy effects like that are.

 

Also, concerning your comment on Sabers, it is Faultroll and Gottoms' E Call that are broken, not Darksoul and Boggart Knight. The recent support might have broken them, but it was not the effects of these new cards that make the deck broken.

 

@Blaze Pyro: I stopped reading after Dark Armed Dragon, don't expect a reply.

 

Also, any argument saying that "Starlight Road" makes a card fair will not be taken seriously. Honestly, no matter what deck you are building, in almost all circumstances, there is always a better option than putting in a single copy of Starlight Road. If a Stardust Dragon that was summoned by Starlight Road was allowed to come back after it negates a card, I would perhaps hold a different opinion, but since that is not the case (due to not being properly summoned), I suggest that every player steer as far away from this card as possible. IMO, the card blows.

[Jord200]

ACCUMULATED FORTUNE why?

ALL-OUT ATTACKS I highly doubt it

BLACK LUSTER SOLDIER - ENVOY OF THE BEGINNING duh.

BLACK ROSE DRAGON they won't. Aki fans will protest. besides, they won't ban 1 of the signer dragons

BLACK WHIRLWIND mabye, but I don't think so

BLACKWING – GALE THE WHIRLWIND fine where it is

BLACKWING – KALUT THE MOONSHADOW at worst it would be semi limited

BLACKWING – VAYU THE BIG FLAG I doubt it

BRAIN CONTROL possibly

BRIONAC – DRAGON OF THE ICE BARRIER possibly

BUTTERFLY DAGGER - ELMA duh

CALL OF THE HAUNTED could happen

CARD DESTRUCTION mabye

CARD OF SAFE RETURN duh

CHANGE OF HEART duh

CHAOS EMPEROR DRAGON - ENVOY OF THE END DUH

CHAOS SORCERER possibly

CHIMERATECH FORTRESS DRAGON I highly doubt it

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON fine where it is

COLD WAVE *rolls eyes*

CONFISCATION duh

CRUSH CARD VIRUS duh

CYBER DRAGON no. Zane fans will protest and its fine at 2

CYBER END DRAGON no comment

CYBER JAR duh

CYBER-STEINduh

CYBER TWIN DRAGON I highly doubt it

DANDYLION I highly doubt it

DARK ARMED DRAGON I doubt it

DARK HOLE duh

DARKLORD ZERATO why?

DARK MAGICIAN OF CHAOS duh

DARK STRIKE FIGHTER DUH

DECK DEVASTATION VIRUS duh

DELINQUENT DUO duh

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON I doubt it

DESTINY HERO - DISK COMMANDER duh

DESTINY HERO - PLASMA doubt it

DIMENSION FUSION duh

EPIDEMIC ERADICATION VIRUS duh

EMERGENCY TELEPORT mabye

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA doubt it

EXCHANGE OF THE SPIRIT duh

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE I HIGHLY doubt it

FIBER JAR duh

FINAL COUNTDOWN why?

FIVE HEADED DRAGON ......

GIANT TRUNADE mabye

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS doubt it

GORZ THE EMMISARY OF DARKNESS doubt it

GOTTOMS’ EMERGENCY CALL I doubt it

GOYO GUARDIAN fine where it is, besides Ushio fans and police will get mad

GRACEFUL CHARITY duh

HARPIE'S FEATHER DUSTER duh

HEAVY STORM mabye

HONEST mabye

IMPERIAL ORDER duh

INFERNITY LAUNCHER mabye

JUDGMENT DRAGON yes

LAST TURN duh

LAST WILL duh

LONEFIRE BLOSSOM no

LIFE EQUALIZER doubt it

LIMITER REMOVAL mabye

MACHINE DUPLICATION possible

MAGICAL EXPLOSION I can see it happening someday

MAGICAL SCIENTIST duh

MAKYURA THE DESTRUCTOR duh

MASS DRIVER no

MEGAMORPH mabye

MEZUKI doubt

MIND CONTROL mabye

MIND MASTER no

MIRAGE OF NIGHTMARE yes

MONSTER REBORN either this or Call of the Haunted

MORPHING JAR mabye

NATURIA BEAST mabye

NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE no

OJAMA TRIO no

ONE FOR ONE no

PAINFUL CHOICE yes

PHANTOM OF CHAOS no

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE no

POT OF GREED yes

PREMATURE BURIAL no

RAIGEKI no

RESCUT CAT I hope not

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION big deal

REVERSAL QUIZ no

RING OF DESTRUCTION yes

SANGAN no

SINISTER SERPENT no

SIXTH SENSE no

SKY SCOURGE NORLERAS why?

SNATCH STEAL duh

SNIPE HUNTERfine where it is

SUMMONER MONK no

SWING OF MEMORIES why?

THE FORCEFUL SENTRY who cares

THOUSAND-EYES RESTRICT duh

TIME SEAL yes

TRAGOEDIA mabye

TRAP DUSTSHOOT doubt it

TREEBORN FROG mabye

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS duh

TSUKOYOMI yes

ULTIMATE OFFERING they better not

UNITED WE STAND doubt

VICTORY DRAGON duh

WITCH OF THE BLACK FOREST duh

XX-SABER FAULTROLL mabye

YATA-GARASU DUH

[Static]

@Jord200: You missed the point.

 

This isn't a prediction of the list Konami will make. This is a list that, if implemented, would allow for the most "skill-based" meta, and would get rid of as much lucksacking as possible.

---

Since I think I ought to: To explain Five Headed Dragon:

 

This list has 3x Future Fusion and 3x Dragon's Mirror.

 

It's a pretty easy to pull off -1 to get off this 5k beatstick.

 

Also, Future Fusion being allowed to target FHD allows you to dump any 5 dragons from your deck, which allows for silly set ups with guys like REDMD which would allow for luck based set ups (games depending on whether or not you draw FF / DM). Future Fusion is fine if it sets up for a Fusion Summon and does not provide much more opportunity by doing so (such as for guys like Last Warrior and Gatling Dragon). With FHD, it does much more than that.

 

---

 

I'm considering putting "Destiny Hero - Malicious" at 0, since Malicious used in sequence is a +2 at best and is Destiny Draw fodder in worst cases. Thoughts?

---

Also, at the kid who said Monarchs would be the best deck on this list, and mentioned Substitoad, Treeborn is banned on this list.

[Tronta]

first, i'd like to ask that you bold or otherwise indicate which listing changes are yours and which are atems.

 

second:

 

Also' date=' morphing jar is one of the stupidest cards EVER made, EVER. Deckout is a stupid deck concept. The way I see it, if I wanted to play freaking solitaire I would have pulled out a deck of playing cards and played solitaire, or clock solitaire since I enjoy that game more, even though there is no skill in clock solitaire.

[/quote']

 

you're right that jar is a freaking stupid card. for all the wrong reasons though. jar is stupid because its advantage ranges from -5 to +5 circumstantially. honestly at 1, in this meta, i dont really have a problem with it.

 

your problem seems to be that you hate ftk decks. which is fair, because ftk decks are funking stupid. mill decks, however, are fine. there is nothing wrong with an alternate win condition deck. the problem is ftk decks.

 

also, darkworlds would be REALLY dead without jar.

 

 

 

 

oh, and this topic is full of idiots. anyone who doesn't understand why all-out attacks should be banned doesnt understand this game well enough, and thus shouldn't be talking. here's why though: all-out attacks is used in at least 2 otk loops off the top of my head. probably 3 or 4 if you get creative. and an otk loop is just bad for the game.