Barrier of Ignorance

[MissionGenocide]

Sitting across from a brutal field and about to lose? Just close your eyes and pretend it isnt happening :3

[img]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6055/271038.jpg[/img]

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

[color="#9932CC"][center][b]Broken. That's all I can say.[/b][/center][/color]

[Jaedumuth]

[quote]Broken. That's all I can say.[/quote]

Oh now, don't be mean, this is an interesting card, and I love interesting cards.

The player with the fewest cards is indestructible, right? Well, just decrease that player's life points to 0 and then get rid of all of your cards. Then it's basically a card-discarding race.

That sounds pretty funny if you'd ask me.

[MissionGenocide]

[quote name='KazukiShizuoka2' timestamp='1282498575' post='4554006']
Oh now, don't be mean, this is an interesting card, and I love interesting cards.

The player with the fewest cards is indestructible, right? Well, just decrease that player's life points to 0 and then get rid of all of your cards. Then it's basically a card-discarding race.

That sounds pretty funny if you'd ask me.
[/quote]

Exactly seen as the controller of the card cant go to no cards in hand (or it will be destroyed) the opponent will always have the ability to switch the effect to them. The trick is bieng ready to punish the opponent when they are forced to play out thier hand.

Alternatively you could combo it with cards that increase your opponents hand size like Gift of Greed or Hiro's Shadow Scout, but then you increase the chance of them drawing cards to destroy it.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

...Yea...Broken is true, and Strawberry wasn't mean o.O
If you think that's mean, get ready for whole lots of meanies

Hard to say anything else.

[Jaedumuth]

[quote]...Yea...Broken is true, and Strawberry wasn't mean o.O
If you think that's mean, get ready for whole lots of meanies

Hard to say anything else.
[/quote]

I'm not sure if you're interpreting the card's effect correctly. Even if you are, then I suppose it's a matter of taste. As an opponent I would be pretty okay with this card.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

What? Balance has nothing to do with taste?

This card would be banned like [url=http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_Dragon]Victory Dragon[/url]

Just because players like/love/are ok with cards doesn't make them balanced. Look at Rescue Cat. I love him yet he's banned

Substitoad or whatever he is. I hate his guts but plenty of people like him. That doesn't keep him from being broken.

[Jaedumuth]

Balance indeed has nothing to do with taste, but I don't see how Barrier of Ignorance is unbalanced.

Plus, Victory Dragon's effect is not impressive either. If the opponent's Lifepoints are reduced to 0, you win the match either way.

I don't see any problems.

[MissionGenocide]

[quote name='♥Łövëły Ċ.Ċ♥' timestamp='1282500609' post='4554133']
What? Balance has nothing to do with taste?

This card would be banned like [url=http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Victory_Dragon]Victory Dragon[/url]

Just because players like/love/are ok with cards doesn't make them balanced. Look at Rescue Cat. I love him yet he's banned

Substitoad or whatever he is. I hate his guts but plenty of people like him. That doesn't keep him from being broken.
[/quote]

Rescue cat and substitoad all have effects which essentially win you the duel. This card just temporarily stops you from losing which is something very different. I personally think its very easy to counter/play around. Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps I could add another limiting factor it, such as it only staying on the field for a few turns like Swords of Revealing Light.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

[quote name='KazukiShizuoka2' timestamp='1282500895' post='4554147']
Balance indeed has nothing to do with taste, but I don't see how Barrier of Ignorance is unbalanced.

Plus, Victory Dragon's effect is not impressive either. If the opponent's Lifepoints are reduced to 0, you win the match either way.

I don't see any problems.
[/quote]
This card changes Game Play Rules.

Just as Victory Dragon LP: 0 victory, this card completely eraticates loses until it's destroyed.

Victory Dragon's effect doesn't have to be impressive, it was banned for it's final effect like all cards with that effect.

[Zeaux]

[quote name='KazukiShizuoka2' timestamp='1282500895' post='4554147']
Balance indeed has nothing to do with taste, but I don't see how Barrier of Ignorance is unbalanced.

Plus, Victory Dragon's effect is not impressive either. If the opponent's Lifepoints are reduced to 0, you win the match either way.

I don't see any problems.
[/quote]
No, no, no. If you reduce the Life Points of your opponent by just using a normal card you win the DUEL, not the [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Match"]MATCH[/url].

Victory Dragon can win a match in the first duel. How is that not impressive?

[Jaedumuth]

And I think cards which change gameplay rules are interesting, and that is why I like it. People might want to ban it, but that doesn't mean it's a bad card. I can imagine thousands of duels involving Barrier of Ignorance, which are just as fun as any other duel.

Sure, in all honesty, I carefully suggest a limit for Barrier of Ignorance, so that it can only be played at the end of a match.

[quote]No, no, no. If you reduce the Life Points of your opponent by just using a normal card you win the DUEL, not the MATCH.

Victory Dragon can win a match in the first duel. How is that not impressive?
[/quote]

So a match is like, multiple duels or something?
In that case...

[b]BAN VICTORY DRAGON! >:C[/b]

[Zeaux]

He already was. lol

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

[quote name='MissionGenocide' timestamp='1282501276' post='4554176']
Rescue cat and substitoad all have effects which essentially win you the duel. This card just temporarily stops you from losing which is something very different.
[b]Which is why it's Broken. This card and Victory Dragon are virtually the same in terms of bannable power. Their exact opposites. Victory Dragon generates an overall defeat in a Duel while this card generates "immortality" in a duel. Konami would not allow it[/b]
I personally think its very easy to counter/play around.
[b]So is Victory Dragon. Opponent Summons victory Dragon, pop open some Bottomless Trap Hole, course cleared. That doesn't make it balanced.[/b]
Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps I could add another limiting factor it, such as it only staying on the field for a few turns like Swords of Revealing Light.
[/quote]
I don't think that would balance it either. Being indestructable for any number of rounds is broken.

[Jaedumuth]

[quote]Being indestructable for any number of rounds is broken.[/quote]

It's not broken, the gameplay just changes from monsters attacking eachother to discarding cards. If you disagree with this card, nobody forces you to approve of it, but personally I think this card can throw things around.

Because I hope you realise that, once the opponent has less cards than the player, the opponent is indestructible and the player not anymore, making the player of this card an easy target.

This card has so many tactical uses for both parties that I just find it interesting.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

[quote name='KazukiShizuoka2' timestamp='1282502607' post='4554261']
It's not broken, the gameplay just changes from monsters attacking eachother to discarding cards. If you disagree with this card, nobody forces you to approve of it, but personally I think this card can throw things around.

Because I hope you realise that, once the opponent has less cards than the player, the opponent is indestructible and the player not anymore, making the player of this card an easy target.

This card has so many tactical uses for both parties that I just find it interesting.
[/quote]
Yes this card can throw things around, but it's unbalanced. Indestructablility isn't realistic if it's achieveable with one single card. This card is Broken when combined with LS. Broken when inserted into DW. Broken when added to Fabled. Countless other deck builds would become indestructable, ruining game play. It's unrealistic. Lockdown decks consist of multiple cards needed to Lock your opponent into submission. That is balanced since it requires a variety of different cards or multiples of 1. This card is a self lockdown in itself. Broken.

Your second point doesnt balance it. It changes nothing since it's just pretty much acting as if it's your opponents card and not yours. Same deal.

I'm not saying the card isn't interesting Im saying its just unrealistic and broken.

[Jaedumuth]

I never mentioned combinations, and maybe you're right. And I agree that maybe this card should be split into a more difficult way to achieve this effect. But as long as both players have equal opportunities as the same advantage, it's not broken, but a gameplay feature.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

Perhaps you explaining why you see it as unbroken will help me better understand you stand point.

[Jaedumuth]

Well, it's just that I do not agree that being temporarily indestructible, makes the card broken. It's not realistic and nobody in Konami would even consider using it, but it just alters the game from deducting Lifepoints to discarding cards.

I don't see how this card breaks anything except for the original game's intentions.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

Ah. What you just described is what Broken means.

To me, it sounds as though you think its ment literally as something that is broken.

The term broken as I've come to understand means Exceedingly OverPowering. Which is what this card is.

[MissionGenocide]

[quote name='♥Łövëły Ċ.Ċ♥' timestamp='1282503976' post='4554335']
Ah. What you just described is what Broken means.

To me, it sounds as though you think its ment literally as something that is broken.

The term broken as I've come to understand means Exceedingly OverPowering. Which is what this card is.
[/quote]

I think I understand what you mean. I thought I had made the card balanced by making it an effect both players could abuse, and one the opponent could use easier. But its the overall power of the effect that makes it broken. Effecting the game way too much in a single card.

[Jaedumuth]

[quote]To me, it sounds as though you think its ment literally as something that is broken.

The term broken as I've come to understand means Exceedingly OverPowering. Which is what this card is.
[/quote]

I am well aware of what Broken is; A feature that makes it impossible to play a game.

But I hope you do realise that I am an amateur videogame analyst who specialises in feature tuning, and with my current knowledge, this card does not make the game impossible or unfair. It alters the gameplay in a way it was not originally intended to be.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

Well balance can be seen as that but thats not always the case.
I mean this card would be very interesting to see between DW and Fableds.

Yea.

Although thats how Broken was described to me as I originally didn't understand the turn. But after people explained things and I read more into comments about how a card is broken I figured out what it ment (though i still dont like using the term)

[quote name='KazukiShizuoka2' timestamp='1282504433' post='4554365']
I am well aware of what Broken is; A feature that makes it impossible to play a game.
[b]Not really. In some cases yes but in most no.[/b]

But I hope you do realise that I am an amateur videogame analyst who specialises in feature tuning, and with my current knowledge, this card does not make the game impossible or unfair. It alters the gameplay in a way it was not originally intended to be.
[/quote]
Videogame analysis is a seperate art than Yu-Gi-Oh TCG analysis

Perhaps I'm not explaining my reasoning properly, I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable person in the area of determining if a card is Broken or not (although I'm quite adept to telling what is OP and UP and Balanced) maybe someone else can explain more efficiently. Talk to Griffin about this card, he should be-able to explain.

[Jaedumuth]

Mah, I'd just like to say that opinions will always be different. I'm already satisfied that our discussion could help this beginning card-maker to improve his... Card-making.

And maybe after all of this, I'll be less likely to venture into this kind of "being indestructible" card effect territory. Nonetheless I remain to be fascinated with what people think up of.

[♥Łövëły-Ċħän♥]

Same :3 Its nice to have discussions that don't turn into raging arguements @.@

My opinions on this card have been stated :3 I'll just let others decide for themselves.