GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='tonymann' timestamp='1293500770' post='4888477'] technically no outer force would stop you from doing that many people carry guns around them as a means of self defense which means they are trying to survive only the strong and clever will survive is what it means. [/quote] No, nothing would stop me... and yet, I don't. Just because you are stronger than something doesn't mean you need to kill everything weaker. You don't kill people just because they are weaker than you, why would animals be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Almost half of the greatest empires of history were forged from destroying and taking over weaker countries. And the laws of nature never seemed to stop cerial killers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='tonymann' timestamp='1293501028' post='4888497'] Almost half of the greatest empires of history were forged from destroying and taking over weaker countries. And the laws of nature never seemed to stop cerial killers... [/quote] Oh my god... that is NOT what i'm saying. Yes, people have a right to eat meat. Most vegetarians would agree that it's nonsensical to ban people from eating meat in all circumstances. But just because people have a CAPABILITY to eat meat, doesn't mean they [i]want[/i] to exercise that capability. This is what i'm getting at with the gun analogy: if you have a gun, you are stronger than someone who doesn't. But the vast majority of people would agree that simply having a gun is not a reason to shoot people; even in those empires you talk about, they were [i]conquering[/i] the countries to expand themselves, not just doing it because they felt like it. Just because you are stronger than animals doesn't mean you are under a moral obligation to kill them if you don't want to. If someone prefers not to be cruel, that's their preference; whether they CAN be cruel is another issue altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Aah and here comes the "Moral" argument to me morals were presented by human society to put limits on what they deemed as inappropriate or unworthy for their society, which i feel doesnt apply to the laws of nature. Aside from that i believe that until cows are able to readily able to properly defend themselves burgers will still be eaten and there shouldnt be a reason to care. Truthfully if someone CAN do it thats a perfect reason TO do it. And im pretty sure Hitler had that same idea in mind. (sorry couldnt think of anyone else to make an example of.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='tonymann' timestamp='1293501645' post='4888554'] Aah and here comes the "Moral" argument to me morals were presented by human society to put limits on what they deemed as inappropriate or unworthy for their society, which i feel doesnt apply to the laws of nature. Aside from that i believe that until cows are able to readily able to properly defend themselves burgers will still be eaten and there shouldnt be a reason to care. Truthfully if someone CAN do it thats a perfect reason TO do it. And im pretty sure Hitler had that same idea in mind. (sorry couldnt think of anyone else to make an example of.) [/quote] Exactly my point; there should be no reason to care. Therefore, if you like being not cruel, then that's a perfectly sensible reason to be a vegetarian. It's not the cow's choice, it's your choice. Um, most people would not consider Hitler to have had a "good reason" to have caused the holocaust. The very fact that you AREN'T killing people on the street right now already shows that you aren't even walking your talk on this issue; just because you can do something doesn't mean you want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 True true but then again the mass majority of people blindly hate hitler because of the holocaust without recognizing the good things he did. Whats funny about him is he was a vegan. EDIT: Or a vegetarian im not sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 He was a vegetarian, and regardless of his improvements to the economy the things he did seriously hurt Germany in the long run (not to mention the millions who died stopping him). That's not even counting the holocaust itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 But he brought Germany out of a serious economic downturn and spreaded that wealth to all the places he conquered. Again you are overlooking his improvements because of the bad things people need to learn to balance these two things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 [quote name='tonymann' timestamp='1293502398' post='4888634'] But he brought Germany out of a serious economic downturn and spreaded that wealth to all the places he conquered. Again you are overlooking his improvements because of the bad things people need to learn to balance these two things [/quote] And because of the war he started, Germany reverted into bad economy and was actually divided into two. End sum=Hitler made economy worse. Spread the wealth? I'm sorry but that's just incorrect. Whatever spreading he did was very limited and not representative of most countries attacked by Germany. I'm not overlooking the good things. I'm saying that the bad he did was far, far greater in magnitude than the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Issun Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Personally, I could never kill an animal, but if an animal is already dead, don't let its meat go to waste, because I really do like meat. On the topic of dairy products, there also very important to the human diet, milk especially, helps grow strong bones and what not. As for clothes, wool is an important fiber for alot of things, if I'm correct, Australlia (or is it new zealand) is one of the leading producers in wool, without it, alot of them would be out of a job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 I believe its New Zealand... I could be wrong though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Both of them are large wool producers. Vegetarians (and some vegans) still use wool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Issun Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Regardless, like I said, I could never kill an animal, and I despise people who hunt for fun, people who hunt to put meat on the table, or in the shelves of supermarkets, I can understand, but no one should ever take joy in killing anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Well i feel if they can do it for fun its almost like a game, except animals could die. To tell you the truth I just dont want to put it as. *Animals are an inferior species* but i just cant find another way to put it. Then again you people probably think im gonna be a future serial killer or something... XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Well, your logic actually makes serial killers the most moral people there are, since to you people should kill anything inferior. Personally, I don't like sport hunting just because I don't like the type of people who usually do it. But I wouldn't deny someone the right to hunt for sport, within limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 True true some people abuse it out of proportions. The settlers for example kept hunting bull and left none for the indians. But the settlers just did it for fun and wasted a lot of precious resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 That's why I said "within limit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~ P O L A R I S ~ Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 [quote name='Opalmoon' timestamp='1289341937' post='4774478'] Obviously a person following whatever diet in the world isn't going to hurt anyone (except huge meat-eaters), [/quote] Strongly disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinnamonStar Posted January 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 Really? How will vegans hurt anyone by sticking with a plant-based diet? Sure, whatever you do will always leave some footprint and hurt someone, a plant, an insect,... But veganism or fruitarianism (sticking with eating only fruits)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted January 1, 2011 Report Share Posted January 1, 2011 uhm cuz oviously if everone turns into a vegamatrian den NO PLANTS LEFT 2 EAT DUHHHHR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Issun Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 If all you eat is plants, you need more plants to survive, eventually, if everyone followed this, there would be less plants, and the animals would die out, leaving no meat for the meat eaters, meaning they would have to eat plants, until there were no plants, den evury wun dias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.:Raging Man:. Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 diet is something stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 What about people who are obese, wanna lose weight, but cant get excercise just yet? They use a diet until they have lost enough weight to be able to excercise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xazeon Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 I couldn't go 2 days without meat :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Culpa Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 Well, without the fats and other animal byproducts won't exactly be detrimental to your health, obviously, but it won't cause many bad effects. Honestly, I know three strict vegans and their perfectly fine, except for being abnormally thin compared to the rest of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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