Ira, Force of Cursed Earth

[Max Darkness]

[center][b]It That Cannot Be Summoned[/b]

Following my [url=http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/231640-different-dimension-babel/]previous strike[/url] into unsummonable monsters, here I've gone the whole way and made a monster that cannot be Summoned.

Rate and enjoy.

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/34odira.png[/IMG][/center]

[b]Effect:[/b] This card cannot be Summoned or Set. You can remove 1 Field Spell Card from your side of the field, hand, or Graveyard from play to remove this card in your hand from play. During your next Standby Phase, return this card to your side of the field in face-up Attack or Defense Position. When this card attacks, it gains ATK equal to the number of Field Spell Cards on the field and in either player's Graveyard x 200. When this card destroys a monster by battle, you can reveal 1 Field Spell Card in your hand to inflict 500 damage to your opponent.


[spoiler=Old Image]
[center][IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/opaf0l.png[/IMG][/center]
[/spoiler]

[DarkForce™]

This is amazing. Although the ATK gain being at 150 is a little harsh for a card of this calibur... To be subtle this card is the shiz, and I would assume it would best be used in a Crystal Deck, or another Field Heavy deck i guess. Anyways, great job. 9/10

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='DarkForce™' timestamp='1292029134' post='4842790']
This is amazing. Although the ATK gain being at 150 is a little harsh for a card of this calibur... To be subtle this card is the shiz, and I would assume it would best be used in a Crystal Deck, or another Field Heavy deck i guess. Anyways, great job. 9/10
[/quote]

I went along the lines of its 'Summoning' (can't actually say that) conditions are quite drawn out and you have to wait a turn for it to appear, and the ATK gain only applies when it attacks, so it's balanced. But perhaps 100 per Field Spell (especially if your opponent is using "Umi" or "Necrovalley") is better.

Thanks for the rate.

[Smesh]

[quote name='Max Darkness' timestamp='1292023452' post='4842519']
This card cannot be Normal Summoned, Special Summoned or Set.
[/quote]

Then it can't be Summoned at all.

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='Smesh' timestamp='1292038910' post='4843269']
Then it can't be Summoned at all.
[/quote]

Exactly. It gets returned during your next Standby Phase. Similar to "Interdimensional Matter Transporter". Since 'returning' doesn't count as Special Summoning, it simply appears on the field after a turn.

[GamemasterGunnar]

I have no problems with the card as it stands, it is balanced just fine and it has a cool effect. but here's how i think it would be read, first with how it stands, and then my version.

This card cannot be Normal Summoned, Special Summoned or Set. You can remove 1 Field Spell Card from your side of the field, hand, or Graveyard from play to remove this card in your hand from play. During your next Standby Phase, return this card to your side of the field in face-up Attack or Defense Position. When this card attacks, it gains ATK equal to the number of Field Spell Cards on the field and in either player's Graveyard x 150. When this card destroys a monster by battle, you can reveal 1 Field Spell Card in your hand to inflict 500 damage to your opponent.

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set, This card cannot be Special Summoned except by it's own effect. You can remove from play 1 Field Spell card from your Field, hand or Graveyard to remove from play this card. During your next Standby Phase, Special Summon this card to your side of the field if it was removed from play with it's effect. When this card attacks, it gains 150 ATK for each Field Spell Card on the Field and in either player's Graveyard. When this card destroys a monster by battle and sends it to the Graveyard, you can reveal a Field Spell Card in your hand to inflict 500 damage to your opponent.

Hope that helps, Good luck and have fun =D

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='GamemasterGunnar' timestamp='1292070631' post='4843990']
I have no problems with the card as it stands, it is balanced just fine and it has a cool effect. but here's how i think it would be read, first with how it stands, and then my version.

This card cannot be Normal Summoned, Special Summoned or Set. You can remove 1 Field Spell Card from your side of the field, hand, or Graveyard from play to remove this card in your hand from play. During your next Standby Phase, return this card to your side of the field in face-up Attack or Defense Position. When this card attacks, it gains ATK equal to the number of Field Spell Cards on the field and in either player's Graveyard x 150. When this card destroys a monster by battle, you can reveal 1 Field Spell Card in your hand to inflict 500 damage to your opponent.

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set, This card cannot be Special Summoned except by it's own effect. You can remove from play 1 Field Spell card from your Field, hand or Graveyard to remove from play this card. During your next Standby Phase, Special Summon this card to your side of the field if it was removed from play with it's effect. When this card attacks, it gains 150 ATK for each Field Spell Card on the Field and in either player's Graveyard. When this card destroys a monster by battle and sends it to the Graveyard, you can reveal a Field Spell Card in your hand to inflict 500 damage to your opponent.

Hope that helps, Good luck and have fun =D
[/quote]


The whole point of this card is one that cannot be Summoned and never will be Summoned; relying on its effect to bypass the Summon Traps and anything that activates when a monster is Summoned. You've made it vulnerable to "Bottomless Trap Hole" and the like by converting its Return into a Special Summon.

This card uses the 'Return from RFP' mechanic only so far used (to my knowledge) with "Interdimensional Matter Transporter". That return is not treated as a Summon, so a monster returning during the End Phase doesn't fall prey to something like "Bottomless" and "Chaos Trap Hole".

This card simply 'appears' on the field during your Standby Phase.

[ayy lmao]

It has to be one of my favourite bybass Summoning cards. I think it, overall is a very impressive card and could probably make a set around things like this.

10/10

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='Unorthodox Simplicity' timestamp='1292073356' post='4844019']
It has to be one of my favourite bybass Summoning cards. I think it, overall is a very impressive card and could probably make a set around things like this.

10/10
[/quote]

Glad you like it.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

The idea is just...so...awesome. Creative. Hell, Konami can never even think something like this. Wait, sorry, Konami isn't even worth comparing with you.

I personally think the attack boose should be x300 or something, but I still love it enough to give 10/10.

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='=Evangelion=' timestamp='1292073831' post='4844032']
The idea is just...so...awesome. Creative. Hell, Konami can never even think something like this. Wait, sorry, Konami isn't even worth comparing with you.

I personally think the attack boose should be x300 or something, but I still love it enough to give 10/10.
[/quote]

Thank you.

I gave 150 as a medium mark between 100 (too low) and 200+ (possibly too high). I'm in two minds about the ATK boost.

[Max Darkness]

Any further comments?

[Nazryl]

This wouldn't work. Returning a card, means to return it to where it was previously, if it never hit the field it can not be returned too it. A monster [i]Must[/i] be Summoned in some way if it is going to hit the field, it's the main focus of the game, this card breaks the fundamental rules of YGO.

But if the above wasn't the case, it would be an amazing idea! Creative and fun. The art doesn't fit the effect either in my opinion, so I'd change that.

If the card would work in the TCG I'd give this a 7/10 (Lower due to the picture)

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='Nazryl' timestamp='1292115449' post='4845443']
This wouldn't work. Returning a card, means to return it to where it was previously, if it never hit the field it can not be returned too it. A monster [i]Must[/i] be Summoned in some way if it is going to hit the field, it's the main focus of the game, this card breaks the fundamental rules of YGO.

But if the above wasn't the case, it would be an amazing idea! Creative and fun. The art doesn't fit the effect either in my opinion, so I'd change that.

If the card would work in the TCG I'd give this a 7/10 (Lower due to the picture)
[/quote]

You can return from the field, hand or Graveyard to the hand or Deck. I'm simply extending that and going from hand to RFP Zone and returning to the field. This, in a technical sense, does work; if you think of returning cards going back to get closer to the Deck: ie RFP Zone -> Graveyard -> Field -> Hand -> Deck, with steps skipped out for specific effects.

Returning in YGO means returning it to where it was previously only if it doesn't mention a new location. "IMT" returns to the field since it doesn't specify anywhere else. However, every other card that returns cards gives the new location; as this does. This just happens to be the first to return from the RFP Zone to the field without hitting the field first, and the first to return to the field compared to the hand or Deck.

So, my own understanding of YGO's rulings does allow this to get to the field, since this doesn't break the rules; it simply exploits them in a new way.


As for the picture, does it not look like an aggressive, fiery rock dragon? I thought that fitted with the ATK-gain effect and burning. The 'Cursed Earth' part of the name is simply to tie in the removed Field Spells.

[Nazryl]

I do see your point, and although I'm sure we could discuss it for many hours, I'll accept your view of the rulings, as it is your card
With the picture, I'm just picky when it comes to art, with this, I think the colors clash.
But as I said, I'm picky.

[GamemasterGunnar]

[quote name='Max Darkness' timestamp='1292072856' post='4844008']
The whole point of this card is one that cannot be Summoned and never will be Summoned; relying on its effect to bypass the Summon Traps and anything that activates when a monster is Summoned. You've made it vulnerable to "Bottomless Trap Hole" and the like by converting its Return into a Special Summon.

This card uses the 'Return from RFP' mechanic only so far used (to my knowledge) with "Interdimensional Matter Transporter". That return is not treated as a Summon, so a monster returning during the End Phase doesn't fall prey to something like "Bottomless" and "Chaos Trap Hole".

This card simply 'appears' on the field during your Standby Phase.
[/quote]
I hate to tell you this, but it could never work like that since, to return to the field, it would have to have come from the field. the mechanic of it being just returned doesn't make scence, why not just add to the effect, "Trap cards cannot be chained to the summoning of this card." and there you go, problem solved, no more bottomless, if that's all your worried about. no solem warning ether.

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='Nazryl' timestamp='1292117133' post='4845499']
I do see your point, and although I'm sure we could discuss it for many hours, I'll accept your view of the rulings, as it is your card
With the picture, I'm just picky when it comes to art, with this, I think the colors clash.
But as I said, I'm picky.
[/quote]

It makes sense to me. And thanks.

Picture-wise, with me wanting a FIRE Rock-Type (odd type and attribute for an odd card), it was best I could find. It could do with a better background and it did blur a lot when I uploaded it...

Perhaps the new, alternate artwork is better?



[quote name='GamemasterGunnar' timestamp='1292118575' post='4845535']
I hate to tell you this, but it could never work like that since, to return to the field, it would have to have come from the field. the mechanic of it being just returned doesn't make scence, why not just add to the effect, "Trap cards cannot be chained to the summoning of this card." and there you go, problem solved, no more bottomless, if that's all your worried about. no solem warning ether.
[/quote]


That's not the point. And see below.

[quote name='Max Darkness' timestamp='1292116702' post='4845485']
You can return from the field, hand or Graveyard to the hand or Deck. I'm simply extending that and going from hand to RFP Zone and returning to the field. This, in a technical sense, does work; if you think of returning cards going back to get closer to the Deck: ie RFP Zone -> Graveyard -> Field -> Hand -> Deck, with steps skipped out for specific effects.

Returning in YGO means returning it to where it was previously only if it doesn't mention a new location. "IMT" returns to the field since it doesn't specify anywhere else. However, every other card that returns cards gives the new location; as this does. This just happens to be the first to return from the RFP Zone to the field without hitting the field first, and the first to return to the field compared to the hand or Deck.

So, my own understanding of YGO's rulings does allow this to get to the field, since this doesn't break the rules; it simply exploits them in a new way.
[/quote]

[Kyakan]

I love the concept idea, it's pretty sweet.
I think that the first picture needs a little tune-up, but the second is awesome and would go pretty great for the concept.
Never before have I even thought of a card that gets summoned without actually being summoned, 10/10.

[Master White]

[center][quote name='GamemasterGunnar' timestamp='1292118575' post='4845535']
I hate to tell you this, but it could never work like that since, to return to the field, it would have to have come from the field. the mechanic of it being just returned doesn't make scence, why not just add to the effect, "Trap cards cannot be chained to the summoning of this card." and there you go, problem solved, no more bottomless, if that's all your worried about. no solem warning ether.
[/quote]

Dude, you need to ACTUALLY READ THE CARD before you say, or go to complain to konami about this card...

[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100629152737/yugioh/images/8/8b/InterdimensionalMatterTransporterDPKB-EN-C-1E.png[/img]

In essence with that card, it don't say that its returned or is summoned, which negates all the possibilites of Summoning traps...Max here has found away to tie that in with Monsters and other cards and in a wonderful new way...If you really don't like it, then why did you even come into this thread once again?

--------------

Anyone saying this don't work, read here....

It actually does work, b/c you can return cards hence in other form of cards, as return to your hand, return to your deck, with a locator in essence. So, in other words, this works no matter what, b/c it is returned to the field by the effect....So GTFO if you don't like this thread.[/center]

---

Also, it states in the Rule book if a card effect is played and you are not sure, it is Ruled that the card effect is placed before the rules...Hence why you can say ignoring the summoning conditions...

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='Kyakan' timestamp='1292120134' post='4845589']
I love the concept idea, it's pretty sweet.
I think that the first picture needs a little tune-up, but the second is awesome and would go pretty great for the concept.
Never before have I even thought of a card that gets summoned without actually being summoned, 10/10.
[/quote]

Thanks.

I decided to change the artwork after seeing this better version of basically the same dragon.

[GamemasterGunnar]

[quote name='General White' timestamp='1292120892' post='4845611']
[center]

Dude, you need to ACTUALLY READ THE CARD before you say, or go to complain to konami about this card...

[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100629152737/yugioh/images/8/8b/InterdimensionalMatterTransporterDPKB-EN-C-1E.png[/img]

In essence with that card, it don't say that its returned or is summoned, which negates all the possibilites of Summoning traps...Max here has found away to tie that in with Monsters and other cards and in a wonderful new way...If you really don't like it, then why did you even come into this thread once again?

--------------

Anyone saying this don't work, read here....

It actually does work, b/c you can return cards hence in other form of cards, as return to your hand, return to your deck, with a locator in essence. So, in other words, this works no matter what, b/c it is returned to the field by the effect....So GTFO if you don't like this thread.[/center]

---

Also, it states in the Rule book if a card effect is played and you are not sure, it is Ruled that the card effect is placed before the rules...Hence why you can say ignoring the summoning conditions...
[/quote]
calm the f-bomb down buddy, I'm not hating on this card, read my first comment and tell me that was a hateful comment, I'm just trying to get you to understand this effect is kinda hard to make scene out of, I know that card in question, it's great for Absolute Zero decks, I know this, but regardless I was JUST giving alternate wordings to reach the same goal, wile avoiding all this confusion. I'm not trying to hate on him. I don't like trolls nor am I trying to be one.

[Master White]

[quote name='GamemasterGunnar' timestamp='1292122938' post='4845677']
calm the f-bomb down buddy, I'm not hating on this card, read my first comment and tell me that was a hateful comment, I'm just trying to get you to understand this effect is kinda hard to make scene out of, I know that card in question, it's great for Absolute Zero decks, I know this, but regardless I was JUST giving alternate wordings to reach the same goal, wile avoiding all this confusion. I'm not trying to hate on him. I don't like trolls nor am I trying to be one.
[/quote]
Okay, now we are getting somewhere, but that's the point of being creative, hence why if you try to find a better way, its still virtually different and if like you said this, "The Summon of this card cannot be negated by trap cards" is good, but its not creative, therefore it wouldn't be as much liked, is what I am getting at, so sometimes let someone be creative and be themselves, b/c that is what this forum is for, is to create realistic cards while being creative, original in essence...

Why do you suppose if you make a card and its an original it higher rated than to opposed to a card that isn't original? Its because of originality....If I was being harsh, well thats b/c it sounded like you were being harsh, thats all...Sorry if I was being harsh, but truly truly, please tell me that you create original well thought out cards and got good scores, unless it was op'd or up'd of course...

[Max Darkness]

[quote name='GamemasterGunnar' timestamp='1292122938' post='4845677']
I'm just trying to get you to understand this effect is kinda hard to make scene out of, I know that card in question, it's great for Absolute Zero decks, I know this, but regardless I was JUST giving alternate wordings to reach the same goal, wile avoiding all this confusion. I'm not trying to hate on him. I don't like trolls nor am I trying to be one.
[/quote]

I realise this effect is rather difficult to understand, since no card in the TCG has an effect quite like it. However, the very goal of this card was to see if it was possible to make a monster that could bypass summoning altogether, not simply be immune to Traps when it hit the field.

[-Griffin]

I Book of Moon this card, then flip-Summon it.

Also, it's really easy to get a monster on the field without it ever being Summoned:

* Set it
* It gets attacked and not destroyed.

Being flipped face-up isn't a Summon, so that doesn't count as ever being Summoned.

By those two factors, this isn't actually doing anything unusual (and even if it was, I don't think it'd be a point worth mentioning that much, since it's only really dodging a couple traps.)

Personally, I don't think it'd see any play =s It's fairly inconsistent and it doesn't give much return. I guess some Decks could splash it to remove something from the Graveyard and use it to tribute/synch, but I'd normally rather use Tricky, or Confit, or something.

Personally, I don't like it. Perhaps if it was more useful on the field.

[Nazryl]

The new art is much better! It is basically the same but looks more... Yugioh-ish lol.
+rep for taking the feedback and using it!
As for the ruling discussion, I don't think it belongs in the thread as it isn't adding to the created card, hence why I didn't continue my argument on the subject.