whats worst war for the sake of religion or war for the sake of imperialsm?

[WTFauKorean]

the reason i bring this up is because iat first i though is was a very simple choice but its harder than i imagined with a little research.
war for the sake of religion has the notorious tendency to last for very long periods of time. the crusades lasted over a hundred years the war in the middle east will most likely never end in for the next 30 to 40 years already has been about 15 years starting from operation desert storm. this allows deaths to build up more than most all wars in our history.
yet war for the sake of imperialsm is a fight for wrong ethics, greed and power and for that reason altough not as much as wars of religion, more die in a shorter period of time.
share your thoughts and insight on this issue.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

Imperialism is worse... In my view...

War is entertainment for the masses... *shot*

[NobleShadow]

Imperialism.
You're fighting for your own power and it's pretty stupid in my opinion.
I really hate the fact that there are many deaths for religious wars, though.

[The Dark One]

Though we like to throw around these terms for the sake of classifying intent, it's rarely so simple.

With imperialism comes the implicit assumption that what "you" are is superior to what "other" is. That means, first of all, that a fair number of religious wars could have been classified as "imperialist" in nature. But also, it gives the opportunity for a whole host of grey shades in an "imperialist" war. In general, there is a heartfelt assumption, somewhere along the line, that being conquered is "better" for the conquered people.

Thus, I think imperialism is possibly the better motivation for war.

[Tentacruel]

War for the sake of imperialism is worse, but neither are justified.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

They're the same. And religion always has a role in imperialism...

[Amethyst Phoenix]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1298437133' post='5028253']
They're the same. And religion always has a role in imperialism...
[/quote]


A lot of the time, religion is just a pretense for invading a country viewed as savage etc.

One of the ways they can justify invading is by saying things like "It's our duty to bring <insert religion here> to these poor people!".


Religion isn't behind the war, it's just used as an excuse by imperialistic people. They really want land/power/economic footholds.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1298437133' post='5028253']
They're the same. And religion always has a role in imperialism...
[/quote]
Always is a strong word. And no, not really. Killing people because you believe you need to or have to is different than killing because of a superiority complex.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1298437394' post='5028268']
Always is a strong word. And no, not really. Killing people because you believe you need to or have to is different than killing because of a superiority complex.
[/quote]
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any war that had only one of those, and none of the other.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1298437727' post='5028277']
I think you'd be hard pressed to find any war that had only one of those, and none of the other.
[/quote]
WWII.

And no, Hitler was not religious.

Good day to you sir.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1298437778' post='5028279']
WWII.

And no, Hitler was not religious.

Good day to you sir.
[/quote]
Um, that's the worst example possible...

Hitler believed that they needed to; "Leibenstrauss"

Hitler also had a huge superiority complex, with the "Master Race".

So actually, he fits both of your categories.

[The Dark One]

Oh, and Hitler [i]was[/i] religious, too.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='The Dark One' timestamp='1298606680' post='5032807']
Oh, and Hitler [i]was[/i] religious, too.
[/quote]
Meh, he might have been, but that's hardly any reason to associate Nazism with religion, especially with specific religions such as modern-day Christianity (as some people do, not in this thread, but I've seen it.)

[Glоrious]

War for the sake of religion. Simply because you use religion as a means of war, which in most cases is the exact opposite of what the religion teaches. Imperialism is bad, but at the very least, they don't justify it by religion. However, self-defense (if another nation attacks you) is a different story.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Glоrious' timestamp='1298762403' post='5036874']
War for the sake of religion. Simply because you use religion as a means of war, which in most cases is the exact opposite of what the religion teaches. Imperialism is bad, but at the very least, they don't justify it by religion. However, self-defense (if another nation attacks you) is a different story.
[/quote]
True, I never thought of it like that. To be honest, I cringe when the subject is brought up because so many people blame religion for any war where one or more parties involved are associated with religion.

[Glоrious]

A perfect example is the Crusades. So many slaughtered in the name of Christ, yet look at the goal. A piece of land that is deemed holy. Ask yourself: would Jesus of Nazareth really want this? Did he not preach for peace?
If it was for imperialism, the reason would be like resources or slaves. Basically, survivability. Though not right, its a far better reason than "the land is holy".

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Glоrious' timestamp='1298765150' post='5036958']
A perfect example is the Crusades. So many slaughtered in the name of Christ, yet look at the goal. A piece of land that is deemed holy. Ask yourself: would Jesus of Nazareth really want this? Did he not preach for peace?
If it was for imperialism, the reason would be like resources or slaves. Basically, survivability. Though not right, its a far better reason than "the land is holy".
[/quote]
Of course. I just don't agree with people who blame the religion itself for the crusades, when it was clearly the fault of the crusaders themselves for lacking decency.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='Glоrious' timestamp='1298762403' post='5036874']
War for the sake of religion. Simply because you use religion as a means of war, which in most cases is the exact opposite of what the religion teaches. Imperialism is bad, but at the very least, they don't justify it by religion. However, self-defense (if another nation attacks you) is a different story.
[/quote]
I think most imperialists would also justify it with religion... for instance so many of the Spanish who justified what they did to the native americans because they had missionaries converting them as well.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

They're both wonderful means of achieving economic growth and resultant power over everyone else. Of course when warring for one's religion, this's totally irrelevant but just so happens to be a rather pleasant convenience.

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

[quote name='Glоrious' timestamp='1298765150' post='5036958']
A perfect example is the Crusades. So many slaughtered in the name of Christ, yet look at the goal. A piece of land that is deemed holy. Ask yourself: would Jesus of Nazareth really want this? Did he not preach for peace?
If it was for imperialism, the reason would be like resources or slaves. Basically, survivability. Though not right, its a far better reason than "the land is holy".
[/quote]
No offense but the muslim turks were just as barbaric as the Crusaders Saladin was a ruthless killer and would have crusader heads plopped up on spikes as warnings...

[Glоrious]

[quote name='Halubaris Maphotika' timestamp='1299026900' post='5044628']
No offense but the muslim turks were just as barbaric as the Crusaders Saladin was a ruthless killer and would have crusader heads plopped up on spikes as warnings...
[/quote]
No offense taken. I dislike most Muslim empires and governments. However, the Crusades attacked for religion, the Muslims defended for life (they did not attack). There's a big difference.

[AsterikcAde]

This is all I have to say, as long as their are intelligent beings on this planet, War will always be a constant, even after our species is long gone from this miserable little planet, a new intelligent species will take our place and even more and horrible wars will continue. Let's face it, there's no such thing as peace, freedom, and equality, IT'S ALL A LIE, it's a pipe dream, the only way to feel at peace, feel free, and feel equal is when we are DEAD. And one more point, Religion and Government, you can't have one without the other because Religion controls the Government and the Government pays the Religious Corporation (YES I SAID IT CORPORATION), in reality, there is no such thing as Separation of Church and State, that is all a lie, when religion is dead, government is dead, think about what I'm saying. Plain truth.

[Glоrious]

[quote name='AsterikcAde' timestamp='1299200624' post='5049436']
This is all I have to say, as long as their are intelligent beings on this planet, War will always be a constant, even after our species is long gone from this miserable little planet, a new intelligent species will take our place and even more and horrible wars will continue. Let's face it, there's no such thing as peace, freedom, and equality, IT'S ALL A LIE, it's a pipe dream, the only way to feel at peace, feel free, and feel equal is when we are DEAD. And one more point, Religion and Government, you can't have one without the other because Religion controls the Government and the Government pays the Religious Corporation (YES I SAID IT CORPORATION), in reality, there is no such thing as Separation of Church and State, that is all a lie, when religion is dead, government is dead, think about what I'm saying. Plain truth.
[/quote]
lolwhat?

[AsterikcAde]

[quote name='Glоrious' timestamp='1299203761' post='5049572']
lolwhat?
[/quote] Don't act all innocent you know that this is the truth, all of this bullshit about peace and freedom is nothing but a lie, our very existence is a prison and as long as their intelligent lifeforms like us Humans on this planet, there will always be chaos. Religion, war, political bureaucratic nonsense, who created all of this? US! HUMANS!

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

Peace can never be attained but it can be reduced...