Mula Mola

[:bcoe]

[URL=http://img852.imageshack.us/i/129631244jpgset1bcoeset.jpg/][IMG]http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/6841/129631244jpgset1bcoeset.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

I think the high ATK and DEF are balanced by the fact its normal and fish type.

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[img]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8496/359185m.jpg[/img] [img]http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/8538/359185o.jpg[/img]

V.1Lore:
This card is treated as a Normal Monster while face-up on the field or in the Graveyard. While this card is face-up on the field, you [b][u]must[/u][/b] Normal Summon it (if possible) to have it be treated as an Effect Monster with this effect: Change this monsters Battle Position to Defense Position during each End Phase.

V.2 Lore:
This card is treated as a Normal Monster while face-up on the field or in the Graveyard. While this card is face-up on the field, you [u][b]must[/b][/u] Normal Summon it (if possible) to have it be treated as an Effect Monster with this effect: Destroy face-up "Mula" monsters you control until you control only 1 face-up "Mula" monster.

[Limited Edition KING]

[quote name=':bcoe' timestamp='1300040166' post='5071459']
I think the high ATK and DEF are balanced by the fact its normal and fish type.
[/quote]
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]You're incorrect.
The level of the monster and ATK/DEF determine the balance when you make Normal Monsters your card is not balanced.
Monster-Type has nothing to do with balance in any card, unless of course it is apart of a combination of card effects.

I suggest you change the level to 5 or you lower the ATK points to around the 1200-1600 mark if you wish to keep it a level 3 monster, if you want to make it a Level 4 I suggest you make the ATK range between 1600-2000 that would make it much more balanced than a Level 3 2150 ATK monster.[/b][/font][/size]

[Zextra]

[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070304014010/yugioh/images/thumb/6/62/Gene-WarpedWarwolfSTON-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-Gene-WarpedWarwolfSTON-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]

Gene Warped Warwolf is currently the strongest Level 4 or under vanilla - yours is stronger, so that's saying that yours is too strong.
Technically, the strongest Level 3 is currently Hunter Dragon which has 1700 ATK and a pathetic 100 DEF.

[-Griffin]

[quote name='King.' timestamp='1300041311' post='5071514']
[size="3"][font="Times New Roman"][b]You're incorrect.
The level of the monster and ATK/DEF determine the balance when you make Normal Monsters your card is not balanced.
Monster-Type has nothing to do with balance in any card, unless of course it is apart of a combination of card effects.

I suggest you change the level to 5 or you lower the ATK points to around the 1200-1600 mark if you wish to keep it a level 3 monster, if you want to make it a Level 4 I suggest you make the ATK range between 1600-2000 that would make it much more balanced than a Level 3 2150 ATK monster.[/b][/font][/size]
[/quote]

You're an idiot.

Normals could safely go up to like, 2400 for a level 4. That simply wouldn't be an issue in the current game.
Monster-type is a major balancing factor in any card. If you can't understand that, please don't try and comment on balance.

Still, Enchanted Fitting Room doesn't need more OTK fuel. And Symbols Coel doesn't need support. Unless you can give a valid reason it's good for the game, I don't really like Normal Monsters. Still, it's not a major issue. Card is overall pretty boring and doesn't do much.

[:bcoe]

[quote name='Zextra' timestamp='1300042182' post='5071569']

Gene Warped Warwolf is currently the strongest Level 4 or under vanilla - yours is stronger
[/quote]

Ya I know. I guess balanced was the wrong word. I think for an overpowered card (compared with current normal cards), its somewhat balanced by the fact its fish. And the fact its dark means it gives most other decks that want to use it an option.

You can't really do much with normal monsters except push their ATK and DEF. And the name definitely doesn't support any current effects. I think having it at level 3 would make it interesting as long as you never released a level 4 with the same attack. It would make it harder to be searched by effects like summoner monk, but easier to get around effects like gravity bind.

[thekazu4u]

Ok. Personally I think that a there should be a 2400 atk 4 star vanilla and a 3000 atk 6 star vanilla, and a 5000 atk 8 star vanilla. Then maybe they would actually get some play. I think that this should be 4 stars not 3.

[-Griffin]

A 5000 ATK Vanilla of any level would be stupid because Birthright exists and OTKs are bad.

[thekazu4u]

Birthright is just a call of the haunted for normal monsters. Not seeing why that would make OTKs any more broken.

[-Griffin]

Because you're giving CotH a 5000 ATK target, and an unlimited CotH at that. 2x Birthright becoming an OTK is not a good thing.

[thekazu4u]

Ok, you are right. Drop the atk 5000 8 star. But the rest are fine :-0

[:bcoe]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1300044606' post='5071679']
Ok. Personally I think that a there should be a 2400 atk 4 star vanilla and a 3000 atk 6 star vanilla, and a 5000 atk 8 star vanilla. Then maybe they would actually get some play. I think that this should be 4 stars not 3.
[/quote]

If you think there should be a 4 star with 2400, why not a 3 star with 2150?

I'm pretty adamant about keeping this a 3 star tbh. agreed with Griffin, - Soul Resurrection, Cry Havoc

[thekazu4u]

Because anything 1900 ATK plus should be four star at least.
And if you are not going to take any input at all, then why even make this thread?

[:bcoe]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1300046824' post='5071760']
Because anything 1900 ATK plus should be four star at least.
And if you are not going to take any input at all, then why even make this thread?
[/quote]

I appreciate your input thekazu4u, your definitely one of the more open minded and creative people I've come across on the forum.
I just think having a 3 star with higher ATK than most other 4 stars with no drawbacks would be interesting and in no way game-breaking.

[thekazu4u]

But it goes against the whole theme of level.
"A Monster Card's Level is a rough indication a card's power ranking"
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level

It also says that in the yugioh rulebook.

[ShadowQueen]

Why do people keep forgetting all the great support Normal Monsters have? Or for Fish for that matter?
The only reason Normal Monsters don't have ATK higher than G-Wolf and Frostosaurus is because they've had them set as the defined MAXes for their LV range without having the drawbacks of high-ATK Effect monsters do for their ranges. THAT is what "balance" is supposed to mean in this game. If we let power levels creep like Mula Mola, we'd see a vanilla-battle that would then have the levels of Effect monsters change to compensate... Otherwise, this should be put in the "Fun Cards" area instead.
That said, this really should be changed to a LV4 monster with either a high ATK OR high DEF. The ATK shouldn't be higher than 2000 (or 1800 for a LV3, to beat out Jerry Beans Man's 1750, the current highest for that LV), nor the DEF higher than 2200, due to precedents. The other stat should be very low. If you want higher ATK or DEF, make it an Effect Monster with a debilitating effect (you could always use Forbidden Chalice or Skill Drain to get rid of that effect).
If you did, based on that flavour text you have, I'd say its effect would just be along the lines of "This card can only declare an attack if a Fish-type, Aqua-Type or Sea-Serpent-type monster has been removed from your side of the field." Then its ATK can be all the way up to 2400 (i.e. Chainsaw Insect).

[:bcoe]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1300047796' post='5071801']
But it goes against the whole theme of level.
"A Monster Card's Level is a rough indication a card's power ranking"
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Level

It also says that in the yugioh rulebook.
[/quote]

I know, but when it comes to [u]effects[/u] there are plenty of cards that defy common rules. I know when it come to Level vs. ATK its simpler, but still I feel normal monsters could afford the push. I think this still falls into being a rough estimate, but definitely pushing the boundary. Especially since its a lesser supported type and an attribute that doesn't really benefit its type, but can be widely used in most decks.

[quote name='ShadowQueen' timestamp='1300048374' post='5071822']
Why do people keep forgetting all the great support Normal Monsters have? Or for Fish for that matter?
The only reason Normal Monsters don't have ATK higher than G-Wolf and Frostosaurus is because they've had them set as the defined MAXes for their LV range without having the drawbacks of high-ATK Effect monsters do for their ranges. THAT is what "balance" is supposed to mean in this game. If we let power levels creep like Mula Mola, we'd see a vanilla-battle that would then have the levels of Effect monsters change to compensate... Otherwise, this should be put in the "Fun Cards" area instead.
That said, this really should be changed to a LV4 monster with either a high ATK OR high DEF. The ATK shouldn't be higher than 2000 (or 1800 for a LV3, to beat out Jerry Beans Man's 1750, the current highest for that LV), nor the DEF higher than 2200, due to precedents. The other stat should be very low. If you want higher ATK or DEF, make it an Effect Monster with a debilitating effect (you could always use Forbidden Chalice or Skill Drain to get rid of that effect).
If you did, based on that flavour text you have, I'd say its effect would just be along the lines of "This card can only declare an attack if a Fish-type, Aqua-Type or Sea-Serpent-type monster has been removed from your side of the field." Then its ATK can be all the way up to 2400 (i.e. Chainsaw Insect).
[/quote]

Which is why I'm saying just have the 1 card, it doesn't have to be this card, but a card like this so there is max 3. Think of normal monsters like an archtype, most archtypes have 1 or 2 stupidly overpowered cards that would never get by on there own.

And fish do have a lot of great support, but a lot of there effects require a monster to be WATER attribute as well as fish or aqua. even more so than other types.

[:bcoe]

[quote name='ShadowQueen' timestamp='1300048374' post='5071822']
Why do people keep forgetting all the great support Normal Monsters have? Or for Fish for that matter?
[b]Normals do have great support, but their support is costly since they don't have any built in engines like blackwings, your afforded greater freedom when it comes to things like summoning from the grave but as far as the amount of cards it costs you and the lack of built in defense or counter measures they aren't all that viable.[/b]

The only reason Normal Monsters don't have ATK higher than G-Wolf and Frostosaurus is because they've had them set as the defined MAXes for their LV range without having the drawbacks of high-ATK Effect monsters do for their ranges.
[b]And I agree that it should stay like that. Thats another reason I would have this stay at 3 star. Just another way of saying this is not the norm, its an exception. Search-ability and special summoning conditions don't vary a whole lot between 3 + 4 and in the way the game is now, making it 3 star could even be a neg for the card. Technically they are the maxes but really they are not v v [/b]

THAT is what "balance" is supposed to mean in this game. If we let power levels creep like Mula Mola, we'd see a vanilla-battle that would then have the levels of Effect monsters change to compensate... Otherwise, this should be put in the "Fun Cards" area instead.
[b]I feel there should be 1 card like this. If there was only 1 card like this and Konami were strict about that, it would give normal monsters and normal monster strategies a boost. No need to change the whole balance of the game around it. I don't think vanilla battles are going to happen any time soon since destroying cards with effects is so easy and widespread.[/b]

That said, this really should be changed to a LV4 monster with either a high ATK OR high DEF. The ATK shouldn't be higher than 2000 (or 1800 for a LV3, to beat out Jerry Beans Man's 1750, the current highest for that LV), nor the DEF higher than 2200, due to precedents.
[b]It used be 2000 was the highest DEF and cards couldn't reach 2100 ATK so easily - Jain Lightsworn, Gladiator Beasts, Cyber D (5 but easy summon). [/b]

The other stat should be very low. If you want higher ATK or DEF, make it an Effect Monster with a debilitating effect (you could always use Forbidden Chalice or Skill Drain to get rid of that effect).
[b]Forbidden Chalice - not very economic, Skill Drain much better cards out there to use with it with better strategies.[/b]
If you did, based on that flavour text you have, I'd say its effect would just be along the lines of "This card can only declare an attack if a Fish-type, Aqua-Type or Sea-Serpent-type monster has been removed from your side of the field." Then its ATK can be all the way up to 2400 (i.e. Chainsaw Insect).
[/quote]

[poinl]

[quote name='Zextra' timestamp='1300042182' post='5071569']
[img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070304014010/yugioh/images/thumb/6/62/Gene-WarpedWarwolfSTON-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-Gene-WarpedWarwolfSTON-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]

Gene Warped Warwolf is currently the strongest Level 4 or under vanilla - yours is stronger, so that's saying that yours is too strong.
Technically, the strongest Level 3 is currently Hunter Dragon which has 1700 ATK and a pathetic 100 DEF.
[/quote]


i know i have a level 4 monster with 2200 atk and 0 def. and wait its an effect card nvrmind

[Weer432]

Fish=water aqua=water smh.

[Zextra]

[quote name='Weer432' timestamp='1300410915' post='5079955']
Fish=water aqua=water smh.
[/quote]
No Type is obligated to stick with one particular Attribute - For example, Fiends are usually classified under the DARK Attribute, but check out the Fabled Archetype, which is comprised of all LIGHT Attribute Fiends.
Therefore, this point is invalid.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

The fact that it supports Fishborg makes it too strong in my eyes.

[Zextra]

@ Tsukasa - it wouldn't work with Fishborg, though - it's a DARK attribute, not WATER (though that can easily be altered)...

However, the card does seem abusable - There are many cards that have limits at Level 3, so this card would be too strong.
For example, there's Gravity Bind, Level Limit - Area B, Enchanted Fitting Room, etc.

Even if its supposed to be the "one and only mega super awesome ace trump" beatstick, it's still a bit powerful...not game-breaking, but OP'ed (but then again, there are plenty of OP'ed cards in the game...)

[:bcoe]

[quote name='Zextra' timestamp='1300422981' post='5080386']
@ Tsukasa - it wouldn't work with Fishborg, though - it's a DARK attribute, not WATER (though that can easily be altered)...

However, the card does seem abusable - There are many cards that have limits at Level 3, so this card would be too strong.
For example, there's Gravity Bind, Level Limit - Area B, Enchanted Fitting Room, etc.

Even if its supposed to be the "one and only mega super awesome ace trump" beatstick, it's still a bit powerful...not game-breaking, but OP'ed (but then again, there are plenty of OP'ed cards in the game...)
[/quote]

When I first made the card, I originally meant it as support for fishborg, but then decided against it. Instead I went the road as discussed.
And I agree, it is overpowered. But every archtype has 1 or 2 cards that are really overpowered and wouldn't get by on there own. I guess when it comes to normal monsters, it's harder to limit people from using them in every deck.

I added a gemini version that doesn't really nerf it that much, but would stop people from just throwing it into any deck.

[:bcoe]

Gemini

[:bcoe]

I think this Gemini version is pretty balanced. I'd like to hear what other people think.

Uploaded a second version which I think helps it stay as close to a normal monster as possible while just restricting the player a bit and applying a cost that is the only cost a normal monster can really have - a normal summon.