Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 [quote name='Anthony Lu'Steezy'' timestamp='1305687864' post='5216065'] you can only have 1 future fusion and 1 dragons mirror. they are limited cards.... [b](Correction: Only Future Fusion is limited. Dragon's Mirror is unlimited.)[/b] and also no correct OCG is ?. Gren Maja De Eza has just a ?. i have no idea if that was the right spelling. hahaha and also my grammar doesnt matter. My OCG is perfect on the card. [b](Uh, no, not really.)[/b] And my source is the Official YuGi-oh card game rules, the best ssource there is hahaha [b](Orly? I'd like to see the source for myself.)[/b] and yes, GOOD players use polymerization [b](No, they don't.)[/b], as it can be re added to your hand or deck numerous times. [b](Even a good E-Hero build doesn't run Poly anymore. Poly is a piece of crap.)[/b] this line is used to terminate the effects of Ultimate Offerings. [b](Why? Ultimate Offering still doesn't allow for Normal Summons of Fusion Monsters. It's impossible anyways.)[/b] which little people know this... the card is now banned because do to its inability to state proper guidelines [b](Uh, no, it hasn't. Once again, show me the source.)[/b], you may use it to normal summon fusion monsters [b](No, you can't.)[/b]..... anyways..... also, its only powerful if you have proper sources. [b](Which are ridiculously easy to find.)[/b] you guys act like there aren't real cards that have possibilities of being as powerful as this one. [b](Because there ARE NONE.)[/b] haha also OCG once again is flawless [b](No, it isn't.)[/b], point out one thing on that card that no real card says? you cant [b](And it should be that way. If a card says something that isn't part of a real card, then that's just bad on your part.)[/b].... besides i know the rules in and out [b](Orly?)[/b], ive been to regional 3 times [b](Proof or it didn't happen.)[/b] thank you very much... so dont act supperior cuz your really not making any since [b](No, you're just not listening.)[/b] up there at the top bud^^^^ [/quote] In conclusion: Yep. This guy is definitely a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zextra Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 First of all, you CAN use Tokens to Fusion Summon - the only thing you're not allowed to use Tokens for are Exceeds. Now, as far as the card goes, it is pretty OP'ed. The only thing broken about it is the x1500 ATK gain - if you lower that to 1000 (like Rag said), this might become slightly less OP'ed. However, I think you should know that Chimera Overdragon broke a whole format on its own, forcing the restrictions of Overload Fusion and Future Fusion, and this thing seems worse than that, so perhaps you could edit it so the balance is slightly better. Trust me, I like OP'ed cards, since they are the only playable ones, but there is a limit to how "mildly OP'ed" you can get, and this card unfortunately goes past that limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 last time i checked, no offense, they updated the rules to change the ability to use tokens as fusion. the thing about 1000 is, then it is UP in my opinion. you would have to fuse 3 monsters just to get 3000 ATK! and thats just way too much to have to give up for a card as strong as blue eyes! i do infact have a new way to fix this though..... i will add a new effect that i have never seen before. it will be updated soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zextra Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I checked wikia just to double check - the only Fusion you can't Summon (that doesn't have strict Fusion materials) is Chimeratech Fortress Dragon, as its "Fusion Summon" is simply conducted by sending the materials to the Graveyard. For that matter, Tokens are also allowed for Synchro Summons. The only reason they can't used for an Exceed Summon is that they can't be overlaid - they "cease" to exist the moment they leave the field. However, as a Fusion/Synchro monster does not require the actual token for its effects, they can be summoned fine. If you do say that the rules state that Tokens are prohibited for Fusion Summons, please direct me towards a source - I would need to know as well if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 no link, download yugi-oh rulebook or look in an existing rulebook you have. not actually stated, but if you look at fusion summon and look at aspects of tokens, its made pretty clear that you cant fuse them. seeing as how they are tokens and not monsters... monsters are what is needed for a fusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 If you've ever played the World Championship games, for Nintendo DS, then you know that tokens CAN be fused. And no link, no proof. No proof, no credibility. No credibility means that everything you've been saying has to be confirmed by either one of the more knowledgable members, or by the actual website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 also note, that WIKI and WIKIA arent valid sites as they are able to be posted on by anyone. this means you are getting opinions and not actual facts. that is why in college, you are not permitted to use such sites as sources for exams or papers.wow look in a god damn rule book! theres your proof! if your too garbage to own a rule book then you are too garbage to play, and if you are too garbage to play, then get off this site! point proven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Also note that the video games are made to follow those same rules. Point disproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zextra Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 I don't know if this is enough, but here's my proof: "Token Monsters can be Tributed (where applicable), and can be the legal targets of effects that return cards to the hand or Main Deck as part of an effect, but not as part of a cost. Token Monsters are also useful for Synchro Summons as they still have Levels. Similarly, they can also be used for Ritual Summons and even Fusion Summons. However, Tokens cannot be used as Exceed Material Monsters, because Tokens are usually Summoned in groups of the same Token and that would make a Exceed Summon too easy." Also, wikia is different from Wikipedia. Yugioh wikia is essentially an internet database of facts contributing to the game, and while it is true that there are many editors, all the rulings are by Konami. Also, I agree with your Wikipedia statement - I haven't been allowed to use it for a single research paper since 6th grade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 the reason you can fuse them in the games is because they place a token card in the slot that they would be in. in real life you dont do that! and to fuse, you need the compatible cards. the ruling for a fusion states that in the rules! so scape goats gives you imaginary tokens, not actual cards. no actual cards means no fusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zextra Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 [quote name='Zextra' timestamp='1305697481' post='5216249'] I don't know if this is enough, but here's my proof: "Token Monsters can be Tributed (where applicable), and can be the legal targets of effects that return cards to the hand or Main Deck as part of an effect, but not as part of a cost. Token Monsters are also useful for Synchro Summons as they still have Levels. Similarly, they can also be used for Ritual Summons and even Fusion Summons. However, Tokens cannot be used as Exceed Material Monsters, because Tokens are usually Summoned in groups of the same Token and that would make a Exceed Summon too easy." Also, wikia is different from Wikipedia. Yugioh wikia is essentially an internet database of facts contributing to the game, and while it is true that there are many editors, all the rulings are by Konami. Also, I agree with your Wikipedia statement - I haven't been allowed to use it for a single research paper since 6th grade [/quote] Oh, and also, regarding your previous post: [img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081028185120/yugioh/images/thumb/c/c7/Token-SheepBlueTKN1-EN-C-UE.jpg/300px-Token-SheepBlueTKN1-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img] I'm sorry for sounding like a**hole - It's quite out-of-character for me. It's just that I'm trying my best to prove a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Can someone call Darkplant? He'd get almost 10 Forces of Darkness from this guy. They do have cards that are meant as tokens. To put it simply: You can use a Proxy, which is a card used as a substitute, or a token. @Zextra: Sometimes, you need to be an a**hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 [quote name='Anthony Lu'Steezy'' timestamp='1305697491' post='5216250'] the reason you can fuse them in the games is because they place a token card in the slot that they would be in. in real life you dont do that! and to fuse, you need the compatible cards. the ruling for a fusion states that in the rules! so scape goats gives you imaginary tokens, not actual cards. no actual cards means no fusion! [/quote] yeah well nowadays the Scapegoats you can only use for synchro then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 yes sir i fully understand i guess in that case you would be able too, but in every tournament ive been to, it has been prohibited. besides, this is actually a topic that is hugely debated all the time. besides, i changed my card so it really wouldnt matter if you used tokens to fuse or not, its max ATK has been reduced to 4500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Ragnarok, you CAN use a Scapegoat token for a Fusion Summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 that's what I was arguing before, but someone said that's not true anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 i still disagree, how would you fuse a token!? they wouldnt go to the grave or anything, it doesnt make sense, please just look at the rules. sure you can use cards in place of them, but what if you dont have the card? then what? but whatever, i know what i know. like i said, ive been to regional 3 times, im pretty sure youve never been anywhere with your dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 well you said it yourself tokens could be used in the past so there had to be SOMEWAY to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 ive been playing since LOB first came out, and you could do tons of things in the past! the rules werent completely set up yet, they had tons of holes in them. eventually when they saw this and the rules became more full-proof, they started to ban cards and prohibit things and make rules more clear. the scape goat first came out in one of Joeys Structure Decks and was used for a wide amount of things from fusion to tributing to activate monster card effects. things like the Fusion had to be banned though due to the ease of fusing if you use them. in official tournaments you cannot fuse them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnarok1945 Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 so you're 100% sure they don't let you fuse tokens anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Ask a judge. Go to your local card or hobby shop, and talk to a Tier 1, 2, or 3 judge. He/she will be able to tell you the correct ruling. If you won't listen to us, then listen to Konami's official rulings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 i always go by the Advanced Rules ( which are the official tournament rules) and no, your not allowed to. other rules include: Cannon Soldier: Tribute 1 monster to inflict 500 points of damage to your opponent (cant tribute opponents monsters for this effect in OT) Tribe infection virus (banned) victory dragon (banned) magician of faith(banned) raegeki (banned) Penguin soldier cant be returned to your hand with its own effect the list goes on.... i could name them all if youd like?i know the official rules, once again, ive been to regional 3 times. do you not know what that is or something? haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 You're acting like you know everything. You're not a judge. You're not listening. You're only proving yourself wrong. To put it simply, if you'll even listen to that, you're playing the part of the failtroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Lu'Steezy' Posted May 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 haha wow, yeah this is one thing i do know quite a bit about, your not a judge either! just cuz you own cards and are on this site doesnt mean you know what your talking about! how about you go to an official tournament in texas, win 10,000 dollars and then go to regional... after that we will see until then, i DO know more on this topic then you do the fact that you refuse to beleive that me, having played this for 11 years and also have gone on to major Official tournaments, cant know more about this then you.... that my friend makes you the failtroll. you dont know more about this then i do, i promise you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dementuo Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 You just said "just cuz you own cards and go on this site doesnt mean you know more than i do" Yeah, you're one to talk. I've actually been to Nationals, I have been a visitor to the Worlds, and I know a Tier 2 judge personally. I Emailed him about this, and here's what he wrote: "It's been the same rule side day 1: You can use tokens as Fusion Materials. You can use tokens as Synchro Materials. They don't have to be sent to the Graveyard, they just have to leave the field. That's also why you can't use tokens as Exceed/Xyz materials; they have to be overlaid, which Tokens can't. Tokens have to be either on the field, as monsters, or nonexistent." That's the word of a Tier 2 judge, which means he knows much more about the game than any of us here. He's more knowledgable than me, and you. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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