Communism.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

China doesn't have a free market.

[Mehmani]

A communism thread and I haven't commented on it? How sad.

I have been a proud and open Marxist ever since I read Marx. Marx does not mention any kind of eugenics program (and Dark was citing for some reason) in any of his works and rightly so. To state that a Communist society must regulate birth defects is scaremongering, biased and a lie that warps neutral view. If we are going to debate the effectiveness of Communism then can we at least do it cleanly?

[Dark]

[i]I have been a proud and open Marxist ever since I read Marx. Marx does not mention any kind of eugenics program (and Dark was citing for some reason) in any of his works and rightly so. To state that a Communist society must regulate birth defects is scaremongering, biased and a lie that warps neutral view. If we are going to debate the effectiveness of Communism then can we at least do it cleanly? [/i]

So where do you draw the line where communism stops regulation and allows things to take their free course of action? You can't say that communism is a concrete belief; there are offshoots and equally correct interpretations, and one saying that communism should be more-or-less liberal is equally as "correct" as someone saying communism should be as regulatory as possible. Nobody said anything about Marx, but you can't give a logical reason why a communist society should stop regulation before one gets to regulating birth defects and age. Saying that there is only one view of communism is equally as ignorant as whatever you are accusing me of saying.

[Tentacruel]

So how would you guarantee that a Communist government would be unbiased? I'm curious.

[Brushfire]

[quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1305926496' post='5221169']
A communism thread and I haven't commented on it? How sad.

I have been a proud and open Marxist ever since I read Marx. Marx does not mention any kind of eugenics program (and Dark was citing for some reason) in any of his works and rightly so. To state that a Communist society must regulate birth defects is scaremongering, biased and a lie that warps neutral view. If we are going to debate the effectiveness of Communism then can we at least do it cleanly?
[/quote]

Knew Marxists would be mentioned in here eventually. His ideas are indeed interesting, but whether or not it can be effectively applied to Western culture in this age is unlikely. I think Marxists are far too critical of the world for myself; Capitalism certainly has it's benefits. I'm all for everyone being equal but as long as the world is so obsessed with material possessions I see it as nothing more than an ideology.

[Frunk]

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1305931666' post='5221351']
So how would you guarantee that a Communist government would be unbiased? I'm curious.
[/quote]

No less so than a capitalist one. Communist states we've seen (the USSR, China, N. Korea, Cuba, none of which ever achieved Communism but even so...) have typically and unfortunately been largely authoritarian thus far, but at least the populace knows who to hate. Capitalism is not a democracy. The power is retained by trans-national corporations who have the money, and thus the power, to do things how they want. The capitalist system allows for far too many people to fall through the cracks and end up struggling to get by. People whom few of us consider as we generally, by human nature, only thing about ourselves and what works for us. No true Communist thinks this way, and if you could get a non-corrupt party of Communists it would be a far better government than any that is under the thumb and in the pocket of the corporate world.

[Rusty Shovel]

[quote name='Frunk' timestamp='1305944576' post='5221792']
No less so than a capitalist one. Communist states we've seen (the USSR, China, N. Korea, Cuba, none of which ever achieved Communism but even so...) have typically and unfortunately been largely authoritarian thus far, but at least the populace knows who to hate. Capitalism is not a democracy. The power is retained by trans-national corporations who have the money, and thus the power, to do things how they want. The capitalist system allows for far too many people to fall through the cracks and end up struggling to get by. People whom few of us consider as we generally, by human nature, only thing about ourselves and what works for us. No true Communist thinks this way, and if you could get a non-corrupt party of Communists it would be a far better government than any that is under the thumb and in the pocket of the corporate world.
[/quote]

Much better defense then I could've given. <3

Though, I agree completely.

[Masochistic Joker]

Capitalism is like the human penis. It works great for a long time but over the years after being so large it will never become strong and powerful ever again.
Translation: Capitalism is fed by greed. Too much greed creates inflation which causes hunger, war(Germany), and crime.

[Frunk]

[quote name='Masochistic Joker' timestamp='1305960525' post='5222289']
Capitalism is like the human penis. It works great for a long time but over the years after being so large it will never become strong and powerful ever again.
Translation: Capitalism is fed by greed. Too much greed creates inflation which causes hunger, war(Germany), and crime.
[/quote]

You're right about it relying on greed, but WWII had little to do with capitalism. At the time feudalism was still slowly evolving into capitalism, and this process was hastened in the boom period for allied nations after the war. Rather, Nazism was so successful as it is a very extreme, very thorough form of fascism. The various oppositions to Hitler's regime were stamped out in stages, to a point where there was essentially only a handful of classes: the government, the military, the aristocracy and the peasantry. There was nothing but loyalty for Hitler in the government and military, and the aristocracy (what was left of it after the Jews were removed) had little reason or will to oppose Hitler. The peasantry, meanwhile, and as is always the case in the world, especially in the modern day, had no influence no matter what the individuals within it thought.

Adding to this is the fact that at the end of the WWI, the German national pride was severely hit by the Treaty of Versailles, which it had no choice but to sign and injured the German nation greatly. For that reason, the Weimar Republic, which the Allies helped create to replace Imperial Germany, was always doomed to fail, especially when faced with a popular radical like Hitler. Quite simply, the German people wanted retribution, and that is why the war was initially supported by the German populace, and likely would not have met severe opposition had they continued to "win". Their fatal mistake was betraying the USSR, with whom they had a peace treaty (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), opening a second front before properly subduing the French and British.

tl;dr: WWII was not caused by capitalism. WWII was caused by WWI.

[Masochistic Joker]

[quote name='Frunk' timestamp='1305963334' post='5222314']
You're right about it relying on greed, but WWII had little to do with capitalism. At the time feudalism was still slowly evolving into capitalism, and this process was hastened in the boom period for allied nations after the war. Rather, Nazism was so successful as it is a very extreme, very thorough form of fascism. The various oppositions to Hitler's regime were stamped out in stages, to a point where there was essentially only a handful of classes: the government, the military, the aristocracy and the peasantry. There was nothing but loyalty for Hitler in the government and military, and the aristocracy (what was left of it after the Jews were removed) had little reason or will to oppose Hitler. The peasantry, meanwhile, and as is always the case in the world, especially in the modern day, had no influence no matter what the individuals within it thought.

Adding to this is the fact that at the end of the WWI, the German national pride was severely hit by the Treaty of Versailles, which it had no choice but to sign and injured the German nation greatly. For that reason, the Weimar Republic, which the Allies helped create to replace Imperial Germany, was always doomed to fail, especially when faced with a popular radical like Hitler. Quite simply, the German people wanted retribution, and that is why the war was initially supported by the German populace, and likely would not have met severe opposition had they continued to "win". Their fatal mistake was betraying the USSR, with whom they had a peace treaty (Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact), opening a second front before properly subduing the French and British.

tl;dr: WWII was not caused by capitalism. [b]WWII was caused by WWI.[/b][/quote]
That's common knowledge as WWI not being Germany's fault but war can spark manufacturing buisiness' productivity but in these days we can't quite do that due to the US giving women's suffrage and hiring illegal immigrants and giving them low pay. Sure the US did that during the potoato famine in Ireland but it didn't grow as fast during the WWII period. Though the mass manufacturing done by the US wouldn't have been started if it weren't for FDR's reforms which still stand today. This is why Communist countries have better economies. Women aren't given much suffrage so they work in the factories. The men are at war and the flow of cash is going in and out. Sure most supplies feed the ones battling and those not much at home but the US did that as well and it helped them. Stalin probably planned on betraying Fuhror Hitler at one point anyway. The two hated each other very much which is why Fuhror Hitler attacked Russia rather than Spain and Italy. Both were comprised of fascist parties after the revolts in their countries. Fuhror Hitler supported the Fascist side of the Spanish government rather than the Spanish Communist, Loyalist, and those that sought Democracy.
EDITED for spelling corrections.