detailed befliefs part 1: When you dont get it... simple is usually right

[WTFauKorean]

before I start this
lecture, rant, ego's pride, flame war, preach, debate, education; call it what you want.
there are a few things I would like to warn you or at least alert you about before you even go into the meaty parts

1. If you have very strong views and you hate being open minded its better if you did not read this and make yourself feel offended.... or if you feel some sort of exhilarating rush from being offended and arguing your point, you're free to do that also.

2. yes this does argue about religion... shut up, i"m not smart enough to use numbers and equations, and bringing in discoveries about religion is the only way to make myself exceptionally intelligible.

3. this might be used for my senior project so if I hear a lot of arguments that kind of sound like "well you are pompous cock-suck, f** nut." Then most likely my senior project will be about me liking dick.

4. hell its an internet forum, these thing are actually meant for things like this

5. if you think, actually listening to something from me, that I think is worth presenting to TED, is quite the remarkable, you shouldn't be afraid to tell me so (I only bite in bed) and maybe I'll have more interesting things for you guys that have nothing to do with mundane and overrated issues such as religion =P.


when you look at any unsolved mystery or perplexing puzzle a lot of times you will find that the simplest solution is the best solution. The ones who are so proud that they can create and decipher the complex are not that wise at all. They actually have quite a hazy tunnel vision and have taken a harsher road to the same conclusion that some one could have done with very minimal effort, and most times the conclusion deciphered with a more complex equation will have more inaccuracies and loop holes.

"okay that's cool you railed on professionals and experts in almost every possible subject of research so what?" Is what all of you might be thinking if you read up to this point, especially since I've told you this is the question that should be swirling around in your head.

well using this dogma of a method I've come to discover many truths about almost all major religions in the entire world. Now the key word is "many", not "all" what I say might have seemed to cover everything by the time you are thru with this but it certainly has not and I will explain what is missing later.

but lets start with the question that would probably raise the most question at the very beginning so I can answer them in a chronological order.

and that question is "where is in the world is the garden of Eden?"

this is the reactions that I'd probably expect the most
*who the f*** said that any event in the bible was actually real?*
*so what all the other religions are wrong, you are narrow minded punk*
*wtf is the garden of eden?*
*I already know that answer to that tell me something I don't know*
*I came to hook up with chicks here, can you tell me what page they posted on so I can compliment them about their thoughtful insight even if I think what ever they said was a load of s***?*

those are all very good thought processes, except maybe the one about hooking up with chicks
then you might want to go to a adult chat site.... and no I will not suggest any to you even if I know/knew some really great ones.....

but let me continue and it will hopefully answer a all of your questions if not most.

first of a for those of you who don't know what the garden is it is theoretically the first settlement of man kind. IF and ONLY IF you take what that book says quite literally. Which is what most pastors believe. Further more this location was in theory believed to be a lost paradise where every animals existed and was named by a single man. This is all a load of crap. The book is actually right and it is speaking the truth, but not in literal terms. People have been complicating this issue by finding scientific explanations for such events. well they are getting absolutely know where.

I asked a pastor a few weeks ago where he thought the garden of Eden was and he said he did not know. He claimed it was a lost paradise. I came to ask 5 more different pastors of the same religion and they said similar answers except one who said Hawaii might be it, but it is also being plagued with sin as of now. I asked 2 pastors of different religions and they told me it never existed in the first place. Well I can tell you that all of them are wrong, seriously Hawaii is the dying garden? You gotta be joking.

most likely is around a 49-50 split between idk and it never existed. the other .9% probably said something stupid, like that thing about hawaii back there.

the last .1% is me

and I can tell you the ones with the best answer are the ones that said "they don't know" because they are absolutely right, they don't know..... But I with confidence say "I do." In fact if you go on to goggle maps I can point it out to you.... in fact I will tell you It's now exact current location right now with Google maps. All you have to do is Google map search the term Mesopotamia and locate 2 rivers Euphrates River and her neighbor the Tigris River. At one point these rivers form into one which causes many floods and always has done since the famous/infamous story of Noah's ark which I will also go into detail later.

All world historians know one very clear fact. some of the very, very first great civilizations started in Mesopotamian because of geography. Rivers are a essential part of civilization and those 2 rivers are the best of the best when it comes to landmarks of human evolution. So no Eden was not a tropical paradise, but it sure did have the essential water supply needed for a civilization to make themselves some leisure time... In that leisure time I'm almost certain that one of the first and most influential organized religions were made then. Thus we have one chaos of clump of idealism that eventually split into 3. All 99% the same, yet all 100% viewed these religions as distinct. That I will also get into detail later.

now although this location is ideal for human growth that does not necessarily mean it was the starting point of the entire human race. Instead it was the starting point of the very first organized civilizations which have evolved from nomads, rivers in Asia being followed soon after. Thus the ottoman empire and the Chinese empire. This also explains the first man alive thing, this man Is most likely one of the few men who were educated enough at the time to utilize literacy. Also the very first man to create a government. Oh yeah this religion is the first organized government known by most as historians and politicians as "church." but no one ever took that very simple answer to thought. Before this religion there was a religion known as shamanism, but this church system was separate from their governing system. Shamanism started in ancient china and was most likely older than the religion originating from Mesopotamian. The problem was that Shamanism never really had truth to it making it die out. Its counter part how ever held truth until man misinterpreted its written documents which is why it still exist today in 3 split religions actually at war against each other.

now this is a lot of information but
for now you should have these to truths very clear in your head.

1. the religion originating with the garden does have some truth to it
2. this does NOT mean all other religions are false, for I have only proved a geographical location to exist.
3. the garden never had, every animal species in the world nor was it the origination location of man kind.
4. the geographical location was ideal location for great civilization but not the only location.
5. this religion was split into 3
6. this religion has been misinterpreted
7. this religion was also the first organized government for non-nomads

Id write more but I think I'm running out of space so I'll continue with more another time, but for now tell me what you think. I'd like to hear you guys rant about loop hole and inaccuracies to find simple proof and truth for that also. I have a feeling many of you have a reaction similar to one of these.

*okay I knew 70% of that load of s*** I refuse to listen to anymore*
*okay I knew 70% of that load of s*** but I'll give him a chance to tell me more*
*interesting but I bet I can find a loophole or inaccuracy*
*I already found an inaccuracy*
*this is insulting*
*man that chick is totally on to me*

[Darth Revan of the Sith]

Your hypotheses is amazing... However I believe the Garden of Eden was a test facility used by our ancestors to test out humans as they would soon be sent to earth... I feel it was an Artificial garden that was placed by the four rivers Tigris, Euphrates, Pishon, and Gihon... I love your theory though

This theory coincides with Ancient Astronaut Theorism...

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Anthony Hatsune' timestamp='1312842706' post='5425826']
Your hypotheses is amazing... However I believe the Garden of Eden was a test facility used by our ancestors to test out humans as they would soon be sent to earth... I feel it was an Artificial garden that was placed by the four rivers Tigris, Euphrates, Pishon, and Gihon... I love your theory though

This theory coincides with Ancient Astronaut Theorism...
[/quote]

thx for the feed back my man
I'm most likely gonna make this into some sort of series
tagged under *wtfaukoreans detailed beliefs*
seeing that no ones ever had beliefs done in detail and with legit proof
nor with any entertaining attributes needed for any kind of great writing

this is gonna probably ultimately end with why the "end of the world" is a lie proven with science and history
and why pastors would most likely kill Christ if he ever existed to come back
if not ending with proven prophesies

[Dark]

So I read the title and immediately thought of this:

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor[/url]

I read the first portion of the thread until you claimed that Mesopotamia is/was the Garden of Eden, which assuredly has no physical nor logical proof to back it up (not necessarily making it false, though). So I got bored and decided to poast.

[Tentacruel]

Funny, this may actually support my religious beliefs a bit, but that grammar is way too atrocious for me to care.


tl;dr

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1312862008' post='5426650']
So I read the title and immediately thought of this:

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor"]http://en.wikipedia....Occam%27s_razor[/url]

I read the first portion of the thread until you claimed that Mesopotamia is/was the Garden of Eden, which assuredly has no physical nor logical proof to back it up (not necessarily making it false, though). So I got bored and decided to poast.
[/quote]

lol I'm not done yet, thanks for reminding me though
I'll probably cover that part next, it was kind of covered in the sense that, with what I have its hella obvious, but I never went into detail yet.
oh yeah and that Occam razor thing, is pretty spot on, except I'm using it to subtly say "stay open minded", not really to argue my point/s. By saying "simple wins" doesn't prove s***, as you can see my arguments are only geography and imperial expansion so far =P

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1312865537' post='5426825']
Funny, this may actually support my religious beliefs a bit, but that grammar is way too atrocious for me to care.


tl;dr
[/quote]

=D cool you're one of the
*okay I knew 70% of that load of s*** but I'll give him a chance to tell me more (added) only if he fixes his f***ing grammar*
be sure to tune in next time, hopefully my grammar will be a lot better than

[Vough]

3. the garden never had, every animal species in the world nor was it the origination location of man kind.
I'd like to see your reasoning/proof behind this.

@Dark Genesis 2:10-14“A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold…The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.” The exact identities of the Pishon and Gihon Rivers is unknown, but the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are well known.

@Korean
I actually knew that the garden was located somewhere near the Tigris and Euphrates. I don't know why those pastors thought it was in Hawaii?
Anyway, I'd have paid more attention to your argument if it had better diction. Just clean it up please, and I'll re-read the whole thing.

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1312871675' post='5427042']
3. the garden never had, every animal species in the world nor was it the origination location of man kind.
I'd like to see your reasoning/proof behind this.

@Dark Genesis 2:10-14“A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold…The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.” The exact identities of the Pishon and Gihon Rivers is unknown, but the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are well known.

@Korean
I actually knew that the garden was located somewhere near the Tigris and Euphrates. I don't know why those pastors thought it was in Hawaii?
Anyway, I'd have paid more attention to your argument if it had better diction. Just clean it up please, and I'll re-read the whole thing.
[/quote]

thx so much, for proof by written text toward dark, that makes my job easier by not having to do it myself. I was gonna use that and one other piece of evidence to back up my argument but I guess I'll only have to throw out one for the next one now

the pastors were unsure of themselves because they took things to a literal point, believing that the garden can only exist as a paradise where no man can set foot on, in this case, the part that's a load of s***. Most pastors will tell you where it was once located but will fail to tell you its present location, mainly because they have convinced themselves it is not a geographical location but a spiritual/holy location now non-existent. When in actuality it never moved from its geographical location at all.

more proof of this in the next one
also might talk about, Buddhist and proverbs
this will all intertwine together eventually

as for cleaning up this thing..... yeah many have requested it, so I'll fix it as I write up my second one. I have s*** grammar when I get carried away or when anything I write exceeds 2 pages on word because I'm to lazy to fix it. I'll higher editors for that s*** (that means the rest of you).

[Vough]

Of course, the Garden would no longer be a "Garden", per se, but just a piece of land, because of the rotting apple effect. It'd no longer be "sacred" either.

Anyway, I didn't get to see your reasoning about #3?

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1312959232' post='5429695']
Of course, the Garden would no longer be a "Garden", per se, but just a piece of land, because of the rotting apple effect. It'd no longer be "sacred" either.

Anyway, I didn't get to see your reasoning about #3?
[/quote]

like i said proven by text
and the other stuff I'll have in the next write up probably due to come out next Friday, not this weeks one
its taking long because i want the delivery as well as everyones requested "cleaning"

[Larxene]

I skimmed through it, and from what I gathered you believe that the Garden of Eden actually exists.

Yeah, I don't think so. That would be implying that everything in the Bible was in fact, true. More specifically, the Old Testament was true.
Whether you believe in God or not, or the Bible or whatever, I am going to pretty much say this.

The Old Testament, especially Genesis, is pretty much completely symbolic. It's highly unlikely that ANY of the events in the creation stories ever happened exactly as they were written. In fact if I recall correctly, there were TWO creation stories in the Bible that contradict each other in a lot of ways. That really calls into question the credibility of both stories right from the start.

I'm not here to question religions of the Bible as a whole, just pointing out that the creation stories are nothing but symbolic stories, not actual recorded events. Thus the Garden of Eden doesn't actually exist. At least, not the one mentioned in the stories.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Larxene' timestamp='1313044183' post='5432555']
I skimmed through it, and from what I gathered you believe that the Garden of Eden actually exists.

Yeah, I don't think so. That would be implying that everything in the Bible was in fact, true. More specifically, the Old Testament was true.
Whether you believe in God or not, or the Bible or whatever, I am going to pretty much say this.

The Old Testament, especially Genesis, is pretty much completely symbolic. It's highly unlikely that ANY of the events in the creation stories ever happened exactly as they were written. In fact if I recall correctly, there were TWO creation stories in the Bible that contradict each other in a lot of ways. That really calls into question the credibility of both stories right from the start.

I'm not here to question religions of the Bible as a whole, just pointing out that the creation stories are nothing but symbolic stories, not actual recorded events. Thus the Garden of Eden doesn't actually exist. At least, not the one mentioned in the stories.
[/quote]

[img]http://images.wikia.com/halofanon/images/1/16/Meme_-_Citation_Needed.png[/img]

But seriously, I'm pretty sure a bunch of trees in a valley somewhere isn't exactly scientifically impossible.

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Larxene' timestamp='1313044183' post='5432555']
I skimmed through it, and from what I gathered you believe that the Garden of Eden actually exists.

Yeah, I don't think so. That would be implying that everything in the Bible was in fact, true. More specifically, the Old Testament was true.
Whether you believe in God or not, or the Bible or whatever, I am going to pretty much say this.

The Old Testament, especially Genesis, is pretty much completely symbolic. It's highly unlikely that ANY of the events in the creation stories ever happened exactly as they were written. In fact if I recall correctly, there were TWO creation stories in the Bible that contradict each other in a lot of ways. That really calls into question the credibility of both stories right from the start.

I'm not here to question religions of the Bible as a whole, just pointing out that the creation stories are nothing but symbolic stories, not actual recorded events. Thus the Garden of Eden doesn't actually exist. At least, not the one mentioned in the stories.
[/quote]

skimming isn't enough man you really have to read it and yeah, yeah, I know tl;dr, but it might answer some of your assumptions because for one I didn't say anything about everything in genesis being literal in fact I said the complete opposite, yes many things are indeed symbolic, but the characters and events are all in a sense true.

Thanks to sedimentary carbon scans, new tech for visually analyzing changing land mass and the psychology of past societies. you'll see that my evidence cannot be ignored.

Tune in next time I can assure you by the time you are finished with these series of detailed beliefs, you are gonna laugh at every pastor in the world for being so ignorant and you yourself can stomp on every argument thrown at you using both scientific, historic and EVEN religious evidence. All thanks to me =D

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1313119112' post='5434890']

[img]http://images.wikia.com/halofanon/images/1/16/Meme_-_Citation_Needed.png[/img]

But seriously, I'm pretty sure a bunch of trees in a valley somewhere isn't exactly scientifically impossible.
[/quote]
you didn't read it didju? Really read It and in time I will be expecting your apology >=)

[Dark]

It may very well be that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers were named well after the first thoughts of writing a "Bible" arose. Because if otherwise, the Bible makes it very clear that Mesopotamia [b]is[/b] the Garden of Eden, and there would be no debate about this.

Also, I claim that my pubic hair is the Garden of Eden. I dare you to prove me wrong.

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1313129597' post='5435303']
It may very well be that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers were named well after the first thoughts of writing a "Bible" arose. Because if otherwise, the Bible makes it very clear that Mesopotamia [b]is[/b] the Garden of Eden, and there would be no debate about this.

Also, I claim that my pubic hair is the Garden of Eden. I dare you to prove me wrong.
[/quote]

thanks for the back up, be sure to tune in for more, I always appreciate the ones who ask me "what about this inaccuracy?"
only makes my job a whole lot more.... *troll face*

and I prove you wrong with your own contradiction "it very clear that Mesopotamia [b]is[/b] the Garden of Eden"
next!

[Dark]

The point is that priests, people who are apparently supposed to know a ton about Christianity, don't all agree that Mesopotamia is the Garden of Eden. You have no way to explain this. You also have no way to dispute my claim that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers may have been named well after the Bible was "born" (not necessarily written). So those rivers were named as such to bolster Christianity, or to show a place of holiness, et cetera.

[WTFauKorean]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1313130086' post='5435316']
The point is that priests, people who are apparently supposed to know a ton about Christianity, don't all agree that Mesopotamia is the Garden of Eden. You have no way to explain this. You also have no way to dispute my claim that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers may have been named well after the Bible was "born" (not necessarily written). So those rivers were named as such to bolster Christianity, or to show a place of holiness, et cetera.
[/quote]

haha, you're gonna love it when I get to the part about pastors all over the world are gonna wanta kill jesus
sit back and relax while everything unfolds

[Vough]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1313130086' post='5435316']
The point is that priests, people who are apparently supposed to know a ton about Christianity, don't all agree that Mesopotamia is the Garden of Eden. You have no way to explain this. You also have no way to dispute my claim that the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers may have been named well after the Bible was "born" (not necessarily written). So those rivers were named as such to bolster Christianity, or to show a place of holiness, et cetera.
[/quote]

Of course, since the Bible is completely literal, all priests should have the same view on it =)

And it was assumed that Moses wrote Genesis AFTER the mesopotamian society had flourished. Thus, the rivers would have had names prior to the writing (or birthing, lol) of the Bible.

[Dark]

[i]Of course, since the Bible is completely literal, all priests should have the same view on it =)[/i]

If it were true that Mesopotamia is the Garden of Eden, more priests would have claimed that. They are the experts of their religion, right? Why is it that the first time I'm hearing this claim is from some random person on YCM? It makes no sense, does it?

[i]And it was assumed that Moses wrote Genesis AFTER the mesopotamian society had flourished. Thus, the rivers would have had names prior to the writing (or birthing, lol) of the Bible. [/i]

Yeah, but I don't want to [i]assume[/i] that.

[Vough]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1313133313' post='5435386']
[i]Of course, since the Bible is completely literal, all priests should have the same view on it =)[/i]

If it were true that Mesopotamia is the Garden of Eden, more priests would have claimed that. They are the experts of their religion, right? Why is it that the first time I'm hearing this claim is from some random person on YCM? It makes no sense, does it?

[i]And it was assumed that Moses wrote Genesis AFTER the mesopotamian society had flourished. Thus, the rivers would have had names prior to the writing (or birthing, lol) of the Bible. [/i]

Yeah, but I don't want to [i]assume[/i] that.
[/quote]

ITT: Hitler, a supposed Christian, should be recognized as a religious leader.

The Bible can be interpreted many different ways, and just because a majority interprets it 1 way doesn't mean that way is more correct or false.

Oh, so you want to assume that it wasn't written after King Hammurabai's reign? (Even though it was written after)

[Dark]

[i]The Bible can be interpreted many different ways, and just because a majority interprets it 1 way doesn't mean that way is more correct or false.[/i]

So my pubic hair argument is equally as probably as his Mesopotamia argument? He obviously has more people backing up his side of the story, but I get an equal cut in probability? A-okay!

[i]Oh, so you want to assume that it wasn't written after King Hammurabai's reign? (Even though it was written after) [/i]

I don't think the Bible has a copyright date, just saying.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1313214949' post='5438534']
ITT: Hitler, a supposed Christian, should be recognized as a religious leader.
[/quote]
Hitler had brilliant ideals. Everyone's problem is how he tried to make those ideals reality.

[Vough]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1313258415' post='5439483']
[i]The Bible can be interpreted many different ways, and just because a majority interprets it 1 way doesn't mean that way is more correct or false.[/i]

So my pubic hair argument is equally as probably as his Mesopotamia argument? He obviously has more people backing up his side of the story, but I get an equal cut in probability? A-okay!

[i]Oh, so you want to assume that it wasn't written after King Hammurabai's reign? (Even though it was written after) [/i]

I don't think the Bible has a copyright date, just saying.
[/quote]

You'd be the .00001% who believe that, but as you have nothing to back it up, you're still entitled to your...flawed...opinion.

Yes, but we know who wrote it, and we also know that because that person wrote it we know what time period it would have been in or after,

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1313282337' post='5440599']
You'd be the .00001% who believe that, but as you have nothing to back it up, you're still entitled to your...flawed...opinion.
[/quote]
What's your backup?

[Dark]

[i]You'd be the .00001% who believe that, but as you have nothing to back it up, you're still entitled to your...flawed...opinion.

Yes, but we know who wrote it, and we also know that because that person wrote it we know what time period it would have been in or after, [/i]

...how is my opinion flawed? My opinion is just as probable as the OPs, so if mine is flawed, so is his. And you seem to back up his. I am probably the only person who believes that the Garden of Eden is in my pubic hair, but that doesn't make my opinion any less viable than the OPs, nor any more flawed.

Also, the Bible may have been written (supposedly) after the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers were named, but note that the conceptual stories in the Bible may have been folktales before the book was ever written. You never thought that whoever wrote the Bible might have pulled some passages from things he's heard? Stories? So the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers could have been named as such [b]because[/b] of the Bible.