Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 no, but I'm close. You would think so because I made you look stupid, and for those whom I cannot communicate this idea properly, this notion is completely stupid. Therefore, I am made into a troll simply through your ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1318719920' post='5581748'] Am I the only one thinking OP is ser? [/quote] Why? Because he's discussing theories based on a children's card game? I find this topic to be quite insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Just so you know they have super computers that are still trying to calculate a perfect game of chess. I bet that if somebody is able to figure out how to do this they will make millions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I know right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Bob the Rainicorn' timestamp='1318720000' post='5581749']no, but I'm close. You would think so because I made you look stupid, and for those whom I cannot communicate this idea properly, this notion is completely stupid. Therefore, I am made into a troll simply through your ignorance.[/quote] You made me look stupid? ._. Sure I didn`t have the best arguements, but your bieng illogical. I don`t understand what your problem is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 am I being illogical? what concepts have I brought about, do not make sense to you? or rather, what statements have I made that you obviously could not interpret because of the barrier that is language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 Tic-Tac-Toe has.... [b]255,168 [/b] possible games. A 40 card deck has.... [b]78,960,960 [/b]possible [b]opening hands[/b]. The two don't even compare. Flawless play will never be possible in Yu-Gi-Oh! even assuming Chess [i]could[/i] be played perfectly, because every time a new card comes out there are an explosion of new possible plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I always thought he was Ser/Mage. But he's significantly less trolly, so... The problem with this topic is it doesn't seem to have a POINT. I still dont get what the discussion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1318720168' post='5581755'] You made me look stupid? ._. Sure I didn`t have the best arguements, but your bieng illogical. I don`t understand what your problem is.. [/quote] Considering your only post was "Is the op Ser?", you aren't helping yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1318720306' post='5581761'] Considering your only post was "Is the op Ser?", you aren't helping yourself. [/quote] I realize that. I`m talking about another topic. I really, don`t want to argue anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I got a better summary of Yu-Gi-Oh! And it doesn't require an entire page of text How to win at Yu-Gi-Oh! in 6 points: 1. Know the cards in the game. 2. Know the Strategies of Archetypes and Decks 3. Know which Decks you are likely to play against. 4. Know how your cards work together in your Deck. 5. Limit your chances of having a Dead Draw. 6. Use all 5 of these points to make logical decisions and moves that allow you to play well. Easy. (even if I probably missed something) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='AggroDrago' timestamp='1318720487' post='5581763'] I got a better summary of Yu-Gi-Oh! And it doesn't require an entire page of text How to win at Yu-Gi-Oh! in 6 points: 1. Know the cards in the game. 2. Know the Strategies of Archetypes and Decks 3. Know which Decks you are likely to play against. 4. Know how your cards work together in your Deck. 5. Limit your chances of having a Dead Draw. 6. Use all 5 of these points to make logical decisions and moves that allow you to play well. Easy. (even if I probably missed something) [/quote] You forgot mind haxors (inb4thecard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Expelsword%20%26amp%3B%23045%3B%20%E8%BC%9D%E3%81%8D' timestamp='1318720265' post='5581759'] Tic-Tac-Toe has.... [b]255,168 [/b] possible games. A 40 card deck has.... [b]78,960,960 [/b]possible [b]opening hands[/b]. The two don't even compare. Flawless play will never be possible in Yu-Gi-Oh! even assuming Chess [i]could[/i] be played perfectly, because every time a new card comes out there are an explosion of new possible plays. [/quote] flawless play in the physical world WILL NEVER HAPPEN for yugioh, but it certainly exists in the world of forms.@ Evilfusion: what people have been arguing over is the support to my thesis, which I feel is not being communicated properly because a lot of arguments against me are either irrelevant or just support what I'm saying, yet are clearly seen as an argument against me.My thesis is this: To be close to perfect as possible in relation to skill, you must be more rational than your opponent. This can be done either by making rational moves, or making your opponent play irrationally.And, my second thesis is: The game is fun when it is irrational, thereby making your opponent play irrationally the best way to have fun and be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Bob the Rainicorn' timestamp='1318720607' post='5581767'] flawless play in the physical world WILL NEVER HAPPEN for yugioh, but it certainly exists in the world of forms.@ Evilfusion: what people have been arguing over is the support to my thesis, which I feel is not being communicated properly because a lot of arguments against me are either irrelevant or just support what I'm saying, yet are clearly seen as an argument against me.My thesis is this: To be close to perfect as possible in relation to skill, you must be more rational than your opponent. This can be done either by making rational moves, or making your opponent play irrationally.And, my second thesis is: The game is fun when it is irrational, thereby making your opponent play irrationally the best way to have fun and be competitive. [/quote] But this doesn't pertain to tic-tac-toe, because there is a way to NEVER LOSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 By rational, do you mean logical, or do you mean predictable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='AggroDrago' timestamp='1318720487' post='5581763'] I got a better summary of Yu-Gi-Oh! And it doesn't require an entire page of text How to win at Yu-Gi-Oh! in 6 points: 1. Know the cards in the game. 2. Know the Strategies of Archetypes and Decks 3. Know which Decks you are likely to play against. 4. Know how your cards work together in your Deck. 5. Limit your chances of having a Dead Draw. 6. Use all 5 of these points to make logical decisions and moves that allow you to play well. Easy. (even if I probably missed something) [/quote] That would be a definition to what yugioh "logic/reason" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Bob the Rainicorn' timestamp='1318720697' post='5581770'] That would be a definition to what yugioh "logic/reason" is. [/quote] The point is that there is no luck in tic-tac-toe, and I CAN always either tie or win in tic-tac-toe, which is virtually impossible in yugioh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='AggroDrago' timestamp='1318720777' post='5581771'] The point is that there is no luck in tic-tac-toe, and I CAN always either tie or win in tic-tac-toe, which is virtually impossible in yugioh. [/quote] The first 2 or 3 moves require luck to see how it ends up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1318720832' post='5581772'] The first 2 or 3 moves require luck to see how it ends up. [/quote] But for EVERY SINGLE MOVE, I ALWAYS have a move that counters it that will lead to my win or tie. And people shouldn't be playing to stop the opponent from doing what they do, because then you aren't playing to win. You're playing not to lose, which is a terrible strategy because it means only one of the two of you are trying to win. Meaning you will lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think it's common knowledge that playing smart and making your opponent misplay will only increase your chances of winning. This is your your thesis, correct? As for the fun aspect...fun is different depending on the person so I won't really go there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 But that's an issue with using TicTacToe as an example. Only the first two moves make any difference. From that point on, you almost always have 1 or 2 moves, and that dictates every other move in the game in predictable fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob the Rainicorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 That would be because the perfect game for Tic Tac Toe is very easily achieved because of the limited amount of choices you can make. My argument is that perfect game does indeed exist in yugioh, even if it doesn't exist in the physical world but of the world of Forms. By virtually you mean almost, which means it does exist, just that it will never be achieved physically, and it certainly is beyond our grasp to determine what it would be in any game situation for yugioh. Though, I suppose if a spell card came out that said "you win the duel", then perfect game would be very easy to determine now wouldn't it? For me to argue further, I must ask, do you not believe in the concept of "perfect game" in yugioh, not meaning that it can be achieved physically, but simply that the thought of its outcome exists but cannot be discovered because the process by which to discover it is too abstract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1318721043' post='5581780'] But that's an issue with using TicTacToe as an example. Only the first two moves make any difference. From that point on, you almost always have 1 or 2 moves, and that dictates every other move in the game in predictable fashion. [/quote] If you know how to play, then EVERY move dictates what you must do. After the first move, there should be a maximum of 4 moves you SHOULD make if you want to win. @bob: it's called koazy'sselfdestructbutton.dek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Bob the Rainicorn' timestamp='1318721098' post='5581784'] For me to argue further, I must ask, do you not believe in the concept of "perfect game" in yugioh, not meaning that it can be achieved physically, but simply that the thought of its outcome exists but cannot be discovered because the process by which to discover it is too abstract? [/quote] I'm not gonna lie, the pursuit of the perfect YGO game would make an excellent anime. Kinda like Hikaru no Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 So your saying, that perfect game exists on paper, but not in real play? Just wondering, but this is only correct if you don`t add the possible factors of bad draws, opponents overpowering you, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.