Neko Mane Troll Deck revisit

[Greiga]

Normal Spell Cards are situational? Lol. Dark Deal is infinitly better, and it's rather bad. if they MST thats why you have your staples so you can get back at them and sorta recover.

 

Pretty much in this deck where you'll hardly win against any casual deck, let alone tier, anything is better than Fine.

 

Wait kaitofusion, am I playing the game right? I didn't mention advantage at all.

 

Also yeah TC just play Piper Chaos and you can still keep your NMK and Celri.

[SynjoDeonecros]

 

Okay, I cut out the Gold Sarcophagi and Deep Divers for Mystic Piper and Kinka-Byo. Anything more I can do to this to make it more stable? I mean besides going straight to Piper Chaos?

[Greiga]

-2 Fine

-2 Sakuretsu

BTH to side

-1 Fabled Ganashia

 

+1 Solemn Judgment

+2 D Prison

+1 Dark Deal

+1 Monster Reborn

+2 Veiler

 

+10 Generic Rank 4 Xyz

+4 Generic Synchros of levels 5, 6, 7, 9

+1 Number 83: Galaxy Queen

 

Keeping the theme, making the deck better, etc

[SynjoDeonecros]

Again, how would I consistently ditch Ceruli for its effect without Fine? IF you can tell me that, I'll take fine out, otherwise, I don't see any option BUT to leave it in. And why Rank 4 monsters when the highest my monsters go is level 3? Seriously, this is a fail suggestion, if I've ever heard one; it doesn't address anything and it outright ignores what is already there for something that isn't there.

[Greiga]

Normal Spells are always coming up, whether it's duality or reborn or heavy or whatever. Fine leaves you with less cards than you started and forces you to discard 2, one of which might be a card needed to win. Dark Deal is far better, is not situational, and only picks on one card. Plus, it makes them waste a spell that might've been game winning.

 

Also I thought your tiger was a Lv 4, my bad. Replace that with Rank 3s then.

 

You could also try out Fabled Dianara (or whatever it's name is) since it's a beater and you run 3 Ganashia. It's just, Fine is really bad.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Problem with Dark Deal: the discard is completely random, whereas Fine you can choose, which makes DD less likely to get the monster I need in the grave than Fine is. And again, to my knowledge, there's only Duality, Dark Hole, Heavy Storm, and Monster Reborn that people use, not nearly enough to warrant completely relying on Dark Deal.

 

I did have the thought of using Dark Scheme, but that will help the opponent and they can stop it by discarding a card, which screws up my plans. So yeah, again, what other card CAN I use to make Ceruli/NMK more consistent than Fine?

[Greiga]

Fabled Dianara, like my ninja edit said.

[SynjoDeonecros]

The guy who helped me make this deck suggested a Dianaira Fabled deck based around this, but I still have the issue that it relies on the opponent's Normal Spells, which, quite honestly, I haven't seen people play more than 4 or 5, not enough to totally rely on it.

[evilfusion]

Most Spells I've seen in most Decks are Normal Spells. The only Quick Plays are MST and Book of Moon. Duality, Reborn, Dark Hole, Heavy Storm, Gold Sarc, Pot of Avarice, One for One, Mind Control, etc are all Normal Spells.

[Greiga]

7/40 chance for a normal spell. Reborn, Dark Hole, Heavy, 3 Duality, the occasional foolish/rota/etc. the chances of drawing a normal spell is really good, and first/second turn dualities are really common.. Dia is also a beater that you can tribute Ganashia alone to get out, so you at least have something they need to waste resources on. If you start to worry about discarding Ganashia, run 2 The Fabled Chawa. It's about as reliable as TG Striker + Warwolf, which is really good.

 

kaitofusion ninja'd me with common spells, alot of those are used during the first few turns.

[SynjoDeonecros]

yeah, but that kind of reliance on their normal spells just doesn't do it for me. It's not that I'm not going to use it, I'm just not going to fully rely on it like you think I should. I just don't think that it's worth it.

[Greiga]

Fine isn't worth it either, but the other choices are far lesser evils.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Perhaps, but it's less reliant on the opponent's plays. Again, my only other option to Fine is Dark Scheme, and not only does it make my opponent draw, as well, which I know you guys are going to say is bad, but it'll likely be negated by my opponent with a discard, which isn't any better. I'm pretty much stuck with Fine, sad to say.

[Greiga]

Dark Scheme is better because they can't use the cars they discarded anymore, because why would they get rid of a monster, when all monsters are key cards nowadays (capt obvious) and, sorry to bring advantage into this, Scheme is a -1, Fine is a -5 with Celri.

 

Scheme:

Activate trap, instant -1

They discard, +1

 

Overall +0

OR

You discard 2 -2

You draw 2 +2

They discard 2 +2

They draw 2 -2

 

Overall -1

 

Fine:

Activate card, instant -1

Discard 2 -2

Celri goes to their field -1

You discard by celri -1

 

Overall -5

 

Scheme is better and thins the deck, and either way gets rid of a card, unless that card is a plant but Plants are starting to get less popular. Even if your other discard was Ganashia, it goes from -5 to -4 which isn't much better.

[SynjoDeonecros]

And that's why I don't like advantage talk; the belief that playing the card itself makes it a -1. I don't subscribe to it, I never did, I never will. And again, the problem is that, in my experience, the opponent can easily negate it with just a discard, rendering it useless; at least with Fine, they have to use a dedicated negation card to get rid of it when I activate it. I can try with Dark Scheme, but I have a feeling that I'll ultimately go back to Fine, sorry.

[Greiga]

No matter how scheme goes, they lost what was probably a good resource.

 

Activating the card is a -1 because after resolution it will leave the field to the graveyard, where you can no longer use it. You have lost one card, or -1.

[SynjoDeonecros]

I don't believe that. You can't gain the card's advantage without using it, so whatever anyone says, I refuse to believe at any time that playing the card itself is a -1; in my opinion, I'd rather stack up the benefits of the card or the combo compared to the relative cost of it, period. And with Dark Scheme, the prospect of it having a built-in way of the opponent negating it just makes it suck to me, I'm sorry. Fine may be a "-5" to you, but for me, it's a hell of a lot more consistent and safer.

[SynjoDeonecros]

I don't believe that. You can't gain the card's advantage without using it, so whatever anyone says, I refuse to believe at any time that playing the card itself is a -1; in my opinion, I'd rather stack up the benefits of the card or the combo compared to the relative cost of it, period. And with Dark Scheme, the prospect of it having a built-in way of the opponent negating it just makes it suck to me, I'm sorry. Fine may be a "-5" to you, but for me, it's a hell of a lot more consistent and safer.

 

I don't believe that. You can't gain the card's advantage without using it, so whatever anyone says, I refuse to believe at any time that playing the card itself is a -1; in my opinion, I'd rather stack up the benefits of the card or the combo compared to the relative cost of it, period. And with Dark Scheme, the prospect of it having a built-in way of the opponent negating it just makes it suck to me, I'm sorry. Fine may be a "-5" to you, but for me, it's a hell of a lot more consistent and safer.

[Greiga]

Duel any of my decks anytime with Fine. Then duel with Scheme. Fine is far worse. Not now cuz it's late, but maybe in like 12 hours.

 

And here I thought I could get through to you.

 

And also, unless you play a different game that uses YGO cards, Fine is always bad. It may be a safer way to get off Celri but the consequences are greater.

[evilfusion]

[spoiler=Advantage explanation]

The concept of advantage is all about the number of cards you have as opposed to your opponent's cards.

 

With the Fine combo, both players have 6 cards on their Field and hand combined at the start of the opponent's turn (6 vs 6). You flip Fine, and discard 2 cards, including Ceruli. Fine goes to the Graveyard after resolving. You now have 3 cards and your opponent has 6. That's why Fine on its own is a -3: You give up 3 cards when using it, and gain nothing from its use. The loss can be alleviated a bit based on what you gain from discarding.

 

Then Ceruli activates and SSes itself to the opponent's Field. Now your opponent has 7 cards on Field and hand combined. Ceruli then makes you discard Neko Mane King, which ends the Turn. Your opponent has 7 cards (6 in hand, 1 on Field). You have 2 cards total, by losing 4 of your own cards and giving your opponent 1. (7 vs 2). That play put you down 5 cards. Thus, a -5.

 

Besides card advantage really only matters based on what you're going to gain from it. Being a -1 isn't necessarily a bad thing. But a -5 is ridiculously bad playing just to end your opponent's turn. That's why the combo is bad.

 

 

 

It's actually not that long, I just know you dont really want to read it.

[Greiga]

Fusion wins the thread.

[SynjoDeonecros]

Get through to me? How? I explained my dislike of Dark Scheme over Fine, what else is there to "get through"? Simply put, I don't care if I don't have another effect attached to Fine, the fact that it doesn't have a built-in way of negating it means it's far better than Dark Scheme, to me.

 

And Fusion, don't patronize me like that. Advantage is BS, period, and I refuse to believe it, regardless of what I'm told. You want to believe in that crap, then fine, but not me.

[evilfusion]

Nah, just wanted to illustrate the point. It has nothing to do with believing in the concept. I was even kind enough to spoiler it if you didn't want to read it, and clearly labeled it as an explanation of the Fine combo in terms of card advantage.

 

Honestly, Dark Scheme is terrible because of the negation thing, that your opponent will always be able to fulfill, considering that, like Hand Destruction, both players need 2 cards in hand to use. The fact it really is better than Fine is amusing, though. Dark Scheme will at least replenish some of the resources you give up to use it, either by taking one of your opponent's, or by letting you draw after discarding.

 

I don't think the Fine + Ceruli + Neko combo is worth using at all.

[SynjoDeonecros]

You're just taking me out of using Dark Scheme; the fact that it can't be activated if either player has less than 2 cards in their hands is another thing; at least with Fine, it only focuses on my own hand, which I can control much more easily than I can the opponent's.I'm sorry, but it's going to be Fine/Ceruli/Neko for this deck, unless there's another, better option we haven't explored, yet.

[Greiga]

You obvs haven't explored Scheme/Celri/Neko on the actual field yet. :/

 

If this deck has less than 2 cards in the hand you probably are gonna lose soon anyway, because the way it's built and it's sole purpose is to discard a specific monster.