Nefarious - a better way to deal with Rescue Rabbits.

[thekazu4u]

Acid Golem done right? (Actually it is nothing like Acid Golem except it is inspired by its namesake). Oh and yea, it does effectively deal with Rescue Rabbits. If anything, too effectively. Yes, this one card will mean that Rescue Rabbit will not need to be hit significantly next list. But yea... it might put too much pressure on level 4 xyzs.

[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/42455.jpg[/img]
2 Level 4 Monsters
This card can be Xyz Summoned during your opponent's Main Phase to your opponent's side of the field using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). This card cannot inflict Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0.


2 monsters for a 3000 ATKer that will reduce damage to 0 seems like a fair trade to me. So yea, lets make space in the extra deck even tighter! The once per duel clause prevents it from absolutely eradicating most deck, while still hopefully hurting Rabbits a LOT.
Your thoughts? Help with balancing it?

EDIT: thinking of making it only level 4 NORMAL monsters (or maybe only dinosaurs, but i'd have to change the name) but making it significantly badder for the player who controls it. What do you think?

[Anbu-of-Sand]

I suggest reducing its ATK and DEF to 2500 or so. 3000 is far too much without some severe restrictions. You may also have to note that which side this is Special Summoned to like Lava Golem does. To top it off perhaps make it that damage is halved instead of reduced completely. After doing that it should be better. Yu have to be fairly careful when designing this card since your using an XYZ with your opponents materials

[thekazu4u]

Sorry I don't understand exactly what you are saying. Are you saying the card is too weak? Because all the changes you are suggesting make it stronger (at least when special summoning it to opponent's side of the field.)

I would rather add some drawback to having it, instead of reducing its ATK or making the damage not 0. Like you cant Special Summon or you have to discard once per turn while it is out there or something. Preferably the first.

[Anbu-of-Sand]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333579012' post='5901788']
Sorry I don't understand exactly what you are saying. Are you saying the card is too weak? Because all the changes you are suggesting make it stronger (at least when special summoning it to opponent's side of the field.)

I would rather add some drawback to having it, instead of reducing its ATK or making the damage not 0. Like you cant Special Summon or you have to discard once per turn while it is out there or something. Preferably the first.
[/quote]
This is to make the card weaker. So is this Special Summoned onto your opponents side of the field or yours? And I don't know how reducing its stats makes it stronger, and taking half damage from no damage makes it stronger (opponent swings for 2000, instead of taking no damage you take 1000) :/

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Anbu-of-Sand' timestamp='1333579175' post='5901790']
This is to make the card weaker. So is this Special Summoned onto your opponents side of the field or yours? And I don't know how reducing its stats makes it stronger, and taking half damage from no damage makes it stronger (opponent swings for 2000, instead of taking no damage you take 1000) :/
[/quote]

Because it is Special Summoned to the opponent's side of the field?

Sorry, this is getting confusing. You can either XYz Summon it normally to YOUR side of the field, OR you can Xyz Summon it to the OPPONENT's side of the field, except you can only do the latter once per duel. I hope I made that clear. Since people are more likely going to be using the Special Summon to the opponent's side of the field effect, changing the amount of effect the card has (making it weaker when Special Summoned to the opponent's side of the field) makes the card stronger.

EDIT: this sorta puts us in a tough spot. If we make it stronger on the field, then it will be more powerful when we Special Summon it ourselves, but if we make it weaker when on the field, then it will be more powerful when Special Summoned to the opponent's field. I am tempted to make it weaker when on the field, to encourage you to Special Summon it to your opponent's side.

[Anbu-of-Sand]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333580527' post='5901827']
Because it is Special Summoned to the opponent's side of the field?

Sorry, this is getting confusing. You can either XYz Summon it normally to YOUR side of the field, OR you can Xyz Summon it to the OPPONENT's side of the field, except you can only do the latter once per duel. I hope I made that clear. Since people are more likely going to be using the Special Summon to the opponent's side of the field effect, changing the amount of effect the card has (making it weaker when Special Summoned to the opponent's side of the field) makes the card stronger.

EDIT: this sorta puts us in a tough spot. If we make it stronger on the field, then it will be more powerful when we Special Summon it ourselves, but if we make it weaker when on the field, then it will be more powerful when Special Summoned to the opponent's field. I am tempted to make it weaker when on the field, to encourage you to Special Summon it to your opponent's side.
[/quote]
Wait, so you can choose which side of the field to Summon it on? You never stated that in the effect :/ and wouldn't this be equally strong on either side of the field? I don't see any effect in specific that hinders the user / opponent of the user in any way. All I see are bonuses that help whoever gets the card. So yeah, can you explain why you would give your opponent a free beat stick / damage soaker?

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Anbu-of-Sand' timestamp='1333580876' post='5901834']
Wait, so you can choose which side of the field to Summon it on? You never stated that in the effect :/ and wouldn't this be equally strong on either side of the field? I don't see any effect in specific that hinders the user / opponent of the user in any way. All I see are bonuses that help whoever gets the card. So yeah, can you explain why you would give your opponent a free beat stick / damage soaker?
[/quote]
I think you are seriously confused.

"[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned during your opponent's Main Phase using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel)."[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Once per duel, I can use my OPPONENT'S monsters to special summon it to my OPPONENT's field during my OPPONENT's turn. Not really sure how this is not well stated on the card. It is NOT mandatory, so you can also use MY monsters to special summon it to MY side of the field during MY turn.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Why would you ever Special Summon it to the opponent's side of the field? They use Rescue Rabbit and before they can get out there evolzar you spec this out using their monsters as material, perhaps even one monster they did not use rabbit for, essentially giving you a +1. Why would you do this? Because this is easier to deal with than an evolzar, and you can use any monsters they have not just the ones they pick as material. I could in addition put "You cannot Special Summon while you control this card" to further support this way of using the card.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]OR... you could Special Summon it to your own side of the field, by using your monsters. Why would you do this? Because you need to soak up damage, or you need a big beatstick... this part seems more elementary.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I am trying to keep the card requiring at least some skill to play while also keeping it multi-faceted.[/size][/font][/color]


[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]EDIT: [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]On second thought I basically see the following 4 options:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3](1) keep it the same, probably more useful special summoning it on your own side of the field unless you really know what you are doing.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3](2) add a "you cannot Special Summon while you control this face-up card" line, making it essentially a more powerful acid golem that you can force on your opponent.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3](3) add a "during your Standby Phase you must attach 1 card from your hand or field to this card" line, making the card a great way to generate card advantage when on your opponent's side and a big but costly beatstick on your own.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3](4) get rid of the multi-use aspect and make it a only normal monster or only dinosaur monster XYZ that does something really bad when it is out. Much less interesting, but much more powerful vs. Dino-Rabbit.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Which road do you think I should take? [/size][/font][/color]

[Anbu-of-Sand]

You never stated that it Special Summons to your opponent side of the field though. What I thought was you essentially 'steal' your opponent's monsters and use them as the material for your own. And although it is easier to face against over those Evolzar's, it's still a 3000 beatstick that you may have to face. Perhaps make it that battle damage involving that card becomes 0? That way it still serves as a beatstick that can run over things, and it won't hinder you too much if you give your opponent a free beater.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Anbu-of-Sand' timestamp='1333582317' post='5901879']
You never stated that it Special Summons to your opponent side of the field though.[/quote]
My bad. Can't believe I did not see that I missed that clause.
[quote]
And although it is easier to face against over those Evolzar's, it's still a 3000 beatstick that you may have to face. Perhaps make it that battle damage involving that card becomes 0? That way it still serves as a beatstick that can run over things, and it won't hinder you too much if you give your opponent a free beater.
[/quote]
Yea, that aint a half-bad idea. How about the other ideas I proposed?

EDIT: it looks like Yugi-co is down so I can't edit it. Here is what I have:

[quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned during your opponent's Main Phase to your opponent's side of the field using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). This card cannot inflict Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0. [/quote][/size][/font][/color]

[Redgrave]

clarify 1 thing to me, the point of "While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0."

does that go for the controller of the card or the one who special summoned it? I.E. say i DO special summon it to my opponents side of the field, s/he now has a 3k beatstick and cant do any damage to me? or I cant do any damage to him/her?


cause personally, the fact i give my opponent a 3k beatstick and now i cant do any damage to them is a little pointless in the 1st place. then again i may be missing the point entirly, but meh.

[Anbu-of-Sand]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333582603' post='5901884']
My bad. Can't believe I did not see that I missed that clause.

Yea, that aint a half-bad idea. How about the other ideas I proposed?
[/quote]
2) The Special Summon clause only goes towards the controller right? Then that could encourage play to use it on your opponent.
3) Those this goes for any type of card? If so, I think it's a bit 'overpowered'. Make it just monsters; this way if you use it on your opponent you force them to use monsters on a XYZ Monster that won't use those monsters in any way, and probably add some sort of minor cost if they don't attach a monster.

1 and 4 I'm not really a fan of. Make the card so you want to give your opponent that beatstick but in return they have to face the consequences. Btw, I don't know if it's just me but I can see those emotes you did or your card image.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Anbu-of-Sand' timestamp='1333582797' post='5901892']
2) The Special Summon clause only goes towards the controller right? Then that could encourage play to use it on your opponent.
3) Those this goes for any type of card? If so, I think it's a bit 'overpowered'. Make it just monsters; this way if you use it on your opponent you force them to use monsters on a XYZ Monster that won't use those monsters in any way, and probably add some sort of minor cost if they don't attach a monster.

1 and 4 I'm not really a fan of. Make the card so you want to give your opponent that beatstick but in return they have to face the consequences. Btw, I don't know if it's just me but I can see those emotes you did or your card image.
[/quote]

Yea I am getting errors up the kazu (/pun). Nothing works these days.

You think I should do BOTH (the special summon thing AND the attaching card thing AND the reducing damage it does thing?) or just one or maybe two? And yea, I am not that big of a fan of four either. If nothing else, that should be a separate card.

Not really sure why making it only monsters is a good thing. If they don't have any monsters, they don't lose any card advantage. What would the other cost be?

There is so much to consider -.- looks like this card is going to be a lot more complex when we are done with it.

[Anbu-of-Sand]

I'd say just one of the two.

Say they have no monsters to attach, then instead they would decrease their Life Points by a set amount (possibly something along the lines of equal to the number of XYZ Material Monsters on this card x100? That'd be a bit of a double whammy though. Have monsters, forced to attach them and not use them until the XYZ is dead ((which is hard since it's a 3000 beater and doesn't use the XYZ Materials at all, and on top of that they would go to the Graveyard after)), or don't have monsters, and take some small-decent burn ((depending on how far you are willing to go with that concept)) ).

[thekazu4u]

[quote] [font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#5a5a5a][size=3]Say they have no monsters to attach, then instead they would decrease their Life Points by a set amount (possibly something along the lines of equal to the number of XYZ Material Monsters on this card x100? That'd be a bit of a double whammy though. Have monsters, forced to attach them and not use them until the XYZ is dead ((which is hard since it's a 3000 beater and doesn't use the XYZ Materials at all, and on top of that they would go to the Graveyard after)), or don't have monsters, and take some small-decent burn ((depending on how far you are willing to go with that concept)) ). [/quote][/size][/color][/font]
[font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#5a5a5a][size=3]I am dead set against burn. I just don't like the mechanic. Playing with what you can do with cards, card advantage, your own cards etc... is fine, but don't mess with Life Points [/size][/color][/font]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]So since we are sorta stuck with this one, how about we just add in the no Special Summoning clause? Just:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"[/size][/font][/color][color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned during your opponent's Main Phase to your opponent's side of the field using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). This card cannot inflict Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points. You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) while you control this face-up card. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0."[/size][/font][/color]

[Anbu-of-Sand]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333585249' post='5901956']
[/size][/color][/font]
[font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#5a5a5a][size=3]I am dead set against burn. I just don't like the mechanic. Playing with what you can do with cards, card advantage, your own cards etc... is fine, but don't mess with Life Points [/size][/color][/font]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]So since we are sorta stuck with this one, how about we just add in the no Special Summoning clause? Just:[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"[/size][/font][/color][color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned during your opponent's Main Phase to your opponent's side of the field using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). This card cannot inflict Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points. You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) while you control this face-up card. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0."[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
Should be worded like the following

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"[/size][/font][/color][color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters during your opponent's Main Phase on their side of the field (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). Battle damage your opponent would take involving this card is reduced to 0. You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) while you control this face-up card. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0."[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]But if you do it like this, I suggest removing that last bit. That makes it so both players take no battle damage (or at least for the owner of the card no damage of any kind) whatsoever while it's on the field. That pretty much says 'I want you (the person with this on the field) to keep this on the field so I (the person who doesn't have it) can keep on drawing and drawing and keep on doing what I want until I find a way to get rid of that card and OTK you'.[/size][/font][/color]

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Anbu-of-Sand' timestamp='1333585940' post='5901958']
Should be worded like the following

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]"[/size][/font][/color][color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]This card can be Xyz Summoned using your opponent's monsters as Xyz Material Monsters during your opponent's Main Phase on their side of the field (you can Xyz Summon "Nefarious, Dragon of Corruption" in this way only once per Duel). Battle damage your opponent would take involving this card is reduced to 0. You cannot Special Summon a monster(s) while you control this face-up card. While this card remains face-up on the field, reduce any damage to your Life Points to 0."[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]But if you do it like this, I suggest removing that last bit. That makes it so both players take no battle damage (or at least for the owner of the card no damage of any kind) whatsoever while it's on the field. That pretty much says 'I want you (the person with this on the field) to keep this on the field so I (the person who doesn't have it) can keep on drawing and drawing and keep on doing what I want until I find a way to get rid of that card and OTK you'.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

If that was not there nobody would use it to Special Summon to their own side of the field... unless I am missing something.

[Anbu-of-Sand]

Wait, now I'm lost xD Okay, let's check the Pros and Cons on depending on whos field it gets summoned to

[b]Your Field[/b]
PROS:
- Beatstick
- You take no Damage whatsoever (if you keep that effect in)

CONS:
- You can't Special Summon
- Your opponent takes no Battle Damage
- Can't get rid of the XYZ Materials on it

[b]Your Opponent's[/b]
PROS:
- They can't Special Summon
- They can't get rid of the XYZ Materials on it
- You take no Battle Damage with that card

CONS:
- They get a beatstick
- They take no Damage whatsoever

So as you can see, they are the same. It all depends on the situation really. If you're scared your opponent is going to start spamming monsters like crazy and you have a way to get this card off the field once it is no longer needed to 'stall' your opponent (say you have Dark Hole in your hand), place it on their side. On the other hand, if you say still have Dark Hole but now need to run over a few pesky monsters, or at least do a one for one (running into a BLS with this), then you would get it on to your field. It all depends on the situation.

[thekazu4u]

[quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]does that go for the controller of the card or the one who special summoned it? I.E. say i DO special summon it to my opponents side of the field, s/he now has a 3k beatstick and cant do any damage to me? or I cant do any damage to him/her [/quote][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]He can't do any damage to you with it, and you cant do any damage to him at all. [/size][/font][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Card finally fixed - yugico is back [/size][/font][/color]