Caseywwm Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Haha, hey guys. I was more or less bored, and decided to see if I could pump out the most unique alternate win condition there was. I can't say I'm dissapointed with the result, however: I don't like how small the text had to become to fit everything on it. With this card, I was thinking that it would be cool to generate a win condition with another random card. However, I'm thinking of nerfing it and reducing the tributes to 3. Reason being: with the field it would require to summon this hunk of beast might end up already being a field to win the duel. Contemplating 4, however four is such an ugly number in terms of you and the Yu-gi-oh field. Anyways, comments and feedback, give me something to work with to help make this card better. I think it's kind of cool, probably not very practical at it's current stage, but definitely cool. Here's the card: [img]http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/zz71/Purplish_Guy/DragonDiety.jpg[/img] (Current) Lore: This card cannot be Normal Summoned or set. This card can only be Special Summoned by banishing 5 monsters on your side of the field. This card cannot be Tributed, targeted or destroyed by card effects, and the Special Summon of this card cannot be negated. When this card is Summoned, reduce both player's Life Points to 0. While this card is face-up on the field, neither player can lose the duel. Increase the controller of this card's Life Points by 500 per Standby Phase. Five of your turns after this card was Summoned, banish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0SS Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 This is a hard one to judge. The reason being that if you have five monsters on the field, you are most likely in a winning position anyway. On the other hand, reducing it to three could make it too easy. Another issue on the opposite end of the scale is that it seems to be too easy to take off the field. What stops the controller destroying it themselves in the second turn, before the opponent has had time to react? It's attack and defense is fairly low, but at the same time, it's probably in the opponents best interest to keep this on the field. I can see this card causing a helluva lot of problems for most decks. For better or for worse, I can't say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRose0202 Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 This card is really in all honesty not good at all. Im sorry i dnt mean to be mean. Look final countdown is a COUNTDOWN u just dnt automatically win so to say. Plus the duel will never end due to the fact it says no one can lose. ur creativity is astounding tho so kudos for that but try remaking this card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 uh... final countdown in and of itself is bad design... why would you want to make it better? Also it is an OTK in and of itself. It essentially says "if you control 5 monsters and you have this card in your hand, you win the Duel." The 5 turns is just ultra random... when the game is over, why force the game to take longer except when they have some chance to destroy it, which they dont with this card... what do you expect them to do, metaion it? Even if they did that, the most they could get is a tie. Basically, it is an OTK that is based on bad mechanics and does not encourage player/player interaction because the win condition is essentially having 5 monsters on your side of the field and one stall card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caseywwm Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='BlackRose0202' timestamp='1333625063' post='5902410'] This card is really in all honesty not good at all. Im sorry i dnt mean to be mean. Look final countdown is a COUNTDOWN u just dnt automatically win so to say. Plus the duel will never end due to the fact it says no one can lose. ur creativity is astounding tho so kudos for that but try remaking this card. [/quote] You don't appear to have read the entire card. Five turns after this card is summoned, it's banished. With this, the duel can be lost by either player. Ideally, you are the victor due to your opponent still having 0 Life Points from its effect, while you have some to stay alive off of from its effect granting you 500 per Standby phase. The five turns is a downgraded requirement for the duel to win. This mechanic change from Final Countdown comes from the difficulty in just getting this damned thing on the field to begin with. That's why it's basically a 10 turn Final Countdown instead of a 20 turn. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333641145' post='5902601'] uh... final countdown in and of itself is bad design... why would you want to make it better? Also it is an OTK in and of itself. It essentially says "if you control 5 monsters and you have this card in your hand, you win the Duel." The 5 turns is just ultra random... when the game is over, why force the game to take longer except when they have some chance to destroy it, which they dont with this card... what do you expect them to do, metaion it? Even if they did that, the most they could get is a tie. Basically, it is an OTK that is based on bad mechanics and does not encourage player/player interaction because the win condition is essentially having 5 monsters on your side of the field and one stall card. [/quote] That's the entire reason I wanted to make it better? Final Countdown is little better than crap, so I wanted to spice it up as a monster and improve the effect's overall design. Not to mention I was more or less boredly tinkering with this card and ended up with what you see now. And of course this card encourages player/player interaction. You have to keep your opponent from getting resources to prevent you from getting your field completely full, which is a very involved job, mind you. There are plenty of stall cards, but almost every popular deck today comes with methods of getting around this, so a stall and five monsters is a little less viable, besides you need to make room for cards to help you fill your field more quickly. This in itself is pretty hard, I don't see many duels in which either player can manage to keep a field of five monsters going, let alone four. A deck you'd probably see this is would be a fodder type deck that specializes on crippling an opponent's options while simultaneously bringing low level/attack fodder onto the field for the eventual summon of this card. What I would have understood better would be the surprising ease at which this card could be summoned with an archetype like the Wind-ups. Contradictory to my previous paragraph, this card could probably be brought onto the field much more easily with the Wind-up Carrier loop, which generates an upwards of three monsters to your side of the field quite quickly. To however go to the opposite end of this spectrum, this card can be destroyed quite easily and turned into your opponent's advantage. There are plenty of cards that can be teched or sided into a meta's deck which grants additional Life Points. Let's go on a play about how this card could horribly backfire: You summon Diety --> End your turn --> Opponent takes advantage of card by pulling off any play which gives them a 2100+ monster while gaining any number of Life Points --> Destroy your monster by battle, because it's not protected by that --> You have 0 Life Points, so you lose and they win. I will however note that this card in general is not very good and likely isn't worth the effort it takes to achieve the desired win condition. I'm probably going to be forced to abandon this card, as it probably can't be fixed by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]With this, the duel can be lost by either player [/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Uh... no. It is either a tie or a win for you. One turn out and it is basically a win for you. (Nobody plays healing cards). You just play scapegoat during their end phase, and summon *insertmonsternamehere* during your main phase. Now you special summon this, they can't negate it. Now you use waboku/threatening roar/etc... and win.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I mean basically this card is a 1 card, boring win condition. Why create these types of cards? I mean, in the bad design category one day of peace was enough. No need for more random skillless deck support.[/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caseywwm Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='Tqne' timestamp='1333618035' post='5902381'] This is a hard one to judge. The reason being that if you have five monsters on the field, you are most likely in a winning position anyway. On the other hand, reducing it to three could make it too easy. Another issue on the opposite end of the scale is that it seems to be too easy to take off the field. What stops the controller destroying it themselves in the second turn, before the opponent has had time to react? It's attack and defense is fairly low, but at the same time, it's probably in the opponents best interest to keep this on the field. I can see this card causing a helluva lot of problems for most decks. For better or for worse, I can't say. [/quote] This card is all but impossible for you to take off of the field. You can't destroy your own monsters by battle, that's just plain silly. It can't be targetted or destroyed by card effects, so you torrential tributing or dark holing is out of the question. It can't be tributed either, so you can't just do that to win the second turn. There is absolutely nothing the player controlling this card can do to remove this thing from the field, it's just plain impossible. The only viable way to get this thing to be destroyed by you is to use a creature swap on it. Even then, things will only go sour for you, because now your opponent gets 500 LP every Standby phase, and now your plan just went down the shitter. [s]Overall, thanks for everyone who commented on this card. I appreciate it, I really do. I'm probably done with this card and am likely going to end up leaving this thread for whoever decides to pick it up. I won't be bumping, but it this topic is still prone for discussion, so be it. Anyone else is permitted to bump this as they see fit.[/s] Lolnevermind it seems we're not done here yet. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1333688405' post='5903492'] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Uh... no. It is either a tie or a win for you. One turn out and it is basically a win for you. (Nobody plays healing cards). You just play scapegoat during their end phase, and summon *insertmonsternamehere* during your main phase. Now you special summon this, they can't negate it. Now you use waboku/threatening roar/etc... and win.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I mean basically this card is a 1 card, boring win condition. Why create these types of cards? I mean, in the bad design category one day of peace was enough. No need for more random skillless deck support.[/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Thing such as trap stun and dark bribe exist and are used quite often mind you. If my knowledge serves me correctly in orde rin which events take place in battle phase, two cards battle, then damage is inflicted to the player with the lower attack. The lower attack monster is then destroyed/banished/ what ever happens to that particular card depending on current effects in play. You've only gained 500 LP during the first Standby phase of their turn. They play anything with 2500 attack or more, and happen to have a trap negating card, instant tie. Besides, I see some players who run healing cards, or cards with healing effects. Just take the psychic archetype for example. P.S. I also realize I'm on the losing side of a battle with you, as I kind of agree with you on certain terms, where this card can be a very difficult tie to get out of. If anything, this is like slef-destruct button. It's very, very easy to turn this card into a tie for both players. I mean, beyond easy. However, there are slim chances for it either being a win or a lose for you. Regardless, I understand that this card is more or less s***. I just thought it'd be a cool concept. Y'know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut - Envoy of the End Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 *Forgets why he abandoned RC section and transfer to Written* *Sees this thread* *Remembers* There's a really obvious flaw here. Thekazu spotted it, but didn't spell it for those who somehow haven't. [quote name='Caseywwm' timestamp='1333611020' post='5902354'] Anyways, (Current) Lore: This card cannot be Normal Summoned or set. This card can only be Special Summoned by banishing 5 monsters on your side of the field.[/quote] Easy enough in Gadgets or with some other cards (Rekindling, RftDD). [quote]This card cannot be Tributed, targeted or destroyed by card effects, and the Special Summon of this card cannot be negated.[/quote] Similar to Venominaga, except instead of being completely immune to card effects, it can't be got around in the only way Venominaga can (ie by random Lava Golem, etc). [quote]When this card is Summoned, reduce both player's Life Points to 0. While this card is face-up on the field, neither player can lose the duel. Increase the controller of this card's Life Points by 500 per Standby Phase. Five of your turns after this card was Summoned, banish it. [/quote] So baisically, wait, let me read that again. [quote]When this card is Summoned, reduce both player's Life Points to 0. While this card is face-up on the field, neither player can lose the duel.[/quote] Sorry, back up further. [quote]When this card is Summoned, reduce both player's Life Points to 0. [/quote] No seriously, I can't be reading this right. [quote][size=6]WHEN THIS CARD IS SUMMONED, REDUCE BOTH PLAYER'S LIFE POINTS TO 0!!![/size][/quote] So, like kazu said, summon this, and you win. Because if your opponent removes it, they have zero life points. And by that time there's been a Standby Phase, and you've gained 500 life points. So you win. So all you need is to summon this, and then one turn later activate some card that banishes, bounces, or sends to graveyard without targeting, and you win. Instantly. Or simpler yet, if you've banked enough life points, ram it! Here the can't be tributed clause comes in to stop that, as does the high level preventing Synchroing or XYZing it off the field (not that something can't be done about that). The opponent can't do anything, because their life points are zero, and I'm going to guess they haven't got a Creature Swap or a healing card handy. So, bearing all this in mind, please explain to me how you thought this was a good idea (or even remotely countdown like, given how unnecessary the countdown was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caseywwm Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 [quote name='Verz Bahamut' timestamp='1333689667' post='5903500'] *Forgets why he abandoned RC section and transfer to Written* *Sees this thread* *Remembers* There's a really obvious flaw here. Thekazu spotted it, but didn't spell it for those who somehow haven't. Easy enough in Gadgets or with some other cards (Rekindling, RftDD). Similar to Venominaga, except instead of being completely immune to card effects, it can't be got around in the only way Venominaga can (ie by random Lava Golem, etc). So baisically, wait, let me read that again. Sorry, back up further. No seriously, I can't be reading this right. So, like kazu said, summon this, and you win. Because if your opponent removes it, they have zero life points. And by that time there's been a Standby Phase, and you've gained 500 life points. So you win. So all you need is to summon this, and then one turn later activate some card that banishes, bounces, or sends to graveyard without targeting, and you win. Instantly. Or simpler yet, if you've banked enough life points, ram it! Here the can't be tributed clause comes in to stop that, as does the high level preventing Synchroing or XYZing it off the field (not that something can't be done about that). The opponent can't do anything, because their life points are zero, and I'm going to guess they haven't got a Creature Swap or a healing card handy. So, bearing all this in mind, please explain to me how you thought this was a good idea (or even remotely countdown like, given how unnecessary the countdown was). [/quote] I understand and appreciate your criticism, though there's not much need to state the obvious, i.e. this card is a pile of s*** at best. To go along with this, not once have I stated I ever thought this card was a good idea. I merely thought it was a cool concept to think about. I understand it's an insta-win at best, and a tie at worst when compared to most decks out in today's meta. Besides, I'm not sure where, but I have stated something akin to the following; I made this card while I was bored and had nothing else to do. I would have posted it in the alternate/other cards section, but it was late enough, [i]and[/i] I was tired enough to think this card would have a chance in the realistic section, which having 'sobered up' I realize this is obviously not the case. As I'm certain you're aware, I can't exactly delete threads on a whim I am also not pathetic enough to just edit all of the text out of the original post and declare this a dead thread to avoid more talk about why the card sucks -- because I know it does and I made the mistake to post it here. [size=5][u]Lastly: I intend to go nowhere with this card, just to say now for anyone else who thinks I'll take their criticism from here on out and use it to change the card; you're mistaken.[/u][/size] That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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