Deckscavator: More like Mining than Milling

[Stan Alda]

I'm somewhat surprised (and disappointed) that there aren't more cards for stealing your opponent's cards, either through shifting control or by taking cards from an opponent's deck, hand, Graveyard, or what-have-you. "Deckscavator" uses the latter concept, which I call "mining" (as opposed to milling).

While not terribly powerful, "Deckscavator"'s utilitarian effect can either give you the card you need or make sure your opponent [i]doesn't [/i]get the card they need. It's a very good Side Deck monster; try slipping this into your Main Deck when you know you'll be facing an opponent that uses roughly the same deck/strategy that you do.

[i][b]Deckscavator[/b][/i]
[img]http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff443/El_Almhjbat_Wahd/deckscavator-1.jpg[/img]
EARTH
Level 5
Machine/Effect
Once per turn, during your Main Phase, you can draw 1 card from the top of your opponent's deck. This monster cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect.
2500/1900

After receiving some comments about the low cost of this card's effect, I have written a couple of hopefully better-balanced alternate effects.

[b][i]Alt. Effect 1:[/i][/b]
Once per turn, during your Draw Phase, you can discard the top card of your deck to draw the top card of your opponent's Deck. This monster cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect. [1-for-1 cost, cannot attack]

[b][i]Alt. Effect 2:[/i][/b]
Once per turn, during your Draw Phase, you can discard the top card of your deck to draw the top card of your opponent's Deck. Skip your next Draw Phase. This monster cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect. [1-for-1 cost, skip next Draw Phase, cannot attack]

[Pyroalphamale]

I agree. There's only a few I know, and even less that aren't banned. Like change of heart / snatch n steal. Or amazoness chain master.

However, I think this one is a little overpowered. only 1 tribute for a 2500 attacker, that can steal a card(permanently) from the top of your opponents deck. The only downfall I see is basically drawing a card that you have no use for. Which isn't really a drawback since you're still milling their deck/messing up their strategy.

I'd suggest making it 2 tribute, and adding in a disadvantage of some sort. Like when the effect is used, go to defense or something.. Just my opinion

Also, may i ask what site you used to create the picture?

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Pyroalphamale' timestamp='1335882470' post='5930088']
I agree. There's only a few I know, and even less that aren't banned. Like change of heart / snatch n steal. Or amazoness chain master.

However, I think this one is a little overpowered. only 1 tribute for a 2500 attacker, that can steal a card(permanently) from the top of your opponents deck. The only downfall I see is basically drawing a card that you have no use for. Which isn't really a drawback since you're still milling their deck/messing up their strategy.

I'd suggest making it 2 tribute, and adding in a disadvantage of some sort. Like when the effect is used, go to defense or something.. Just my opinion

Also, may i ask what site you used to create the picture?
[/quote]

This thing already has a disadvantage: it can't attack if you use its effect. I suppose I could add another tribute, but I based its stats on a slightly buffed "Summoned Skull", which I consider the baseline for level 5/6. Then again, my knowledge of the metagame is horribly outdated.

As for the pic, I got it from deviantART (don't worry, I asked politely), then futzed around with it in GIMP. It does look a little blurry; I'll see if I can sharpen it later.

[Tentacruel]

It's not overpowered. Have you seen how broken the Yugioh meta is?

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Comrade Trollestia' timestamp='1335883483' post='5930106']
It's not overpowered. Have you seen how broken the Yugioh meta is?
[/quote]
That's common knowledge. I was originally going to give it 2800 ATK, but bumped it down because I thought that would be too high for a LV 6. Now, aside from that remark, do you have any comments on the card itself?

[Pyroalphamale]

I like the picture as it is. no need to change. I was just commenting on the idea of stealing a card straight of their deck top, to use permanently. Seems like a great advantage, which is why I'd say another tribute is needed. But all in all, great work.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Pyroalphamale' timestamp='1335884071' post='5930120']
I like the picture as it is. no need to change. I was just commenting on the idea of stealing a card straight of their deck top, to use permanently. Seems like a great advantage, which is why I'd say another tribute is needed. But all in all, great work.
[/quote]

I'm still not buying that. If your strategy isn't the same as your opponent's (then again, with all the netdecking and overall broken meta, that might not be that uncommon), it'll be a dead draw anyway, unless you get a staple card. For example, if I were running a Legendary Ocean--which I usually do--and my opponent is running Gladiator Beasts, then this thing is nigh-worthless. But if we're both running GBs, then it might be more useful (although its EARTH/Machine typing doesn't fit in that well).

In short: 2 Tributes for a 2500/1900 Earth/Machine that can take a (often dead) draw from the opponent at the expense of not attacking that turn is too high a cost.

But thanks for the picture comment.

[Tentacruel]

The effect is fairly creative, as simple as it is, and I could see this getting some actual use. Requiring a tribute at all is enough of a disadvantage in today's metagame. Good card. Balanced stats. Quite effective.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Comrade Trollestia' timestamp='1335884668' post='5930128']
The effect is fairly creative, as simple as it is, and I could see this getting some actual use. Requiring a tribute at all is enough of a disadvantage in today's metagame. Good card. Balanced stats. Quite effective.
[/quote]

Yeah, I like simple and creative effects. Thanks for the comments.

[Tentacruel]

Omigosh I just now realized the name was Deckscavator. Thought it was Devastator for some reason. XD That's a good name.

[Redgrave]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1335884387' post='5930127']
I'm still not buying that. If your strategy isn't the same as your opponent's (then again, with all the netdecking and overall broken meta, that might not be that uncommon), it'll be a dead draw anyway, unless you get a staple card. For example, if I were running a Legendary Ocean--which I usually do--and my opponent is running Gladiator Beasts, then this thing is nigh-worthless. But if we're both running GBs, then it might be more useful (although its EARTH/Machine typing doesn't fit in that well).

In short: 2 Tributes for a 2500/1900 Earth/Machine that can take a (often dead) draw from the opponent at the expense of not attacking that turn is too high a cost.

But thanks for the picture comment.
[/quote]


Personally, i love the effect not something you see often. As far as the balance issue of weather drawing a card from your opponent ends in more of a "Dead" draw or not, unless you actually play test this card in variouse scenarios then neather one of you can say for certain. On a side note, as far as the single tribute ATK stat goes, i personally go by the monarchs when it come to single tribute "Effect" monsters, as Summoned Skull is "Normal" it needs that extra ATK to basically compete(even tho nowadays you have normal single tributes coming out at around 2600-2800 just to compete) with all the Special summoned Synchros and Xyz monsters out nowadays.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Redgrave' timestamp='1335889461' post='5930190']
Personally, i love the effect not something you see often. As far as the balance issue of weather drawing a card from your opponent ends in more of a "Dead" draw or not, unless you actually play test this card in variouse scenarios then neather one of you can say for certain. On a side note, as far as the single tribute ATK stat goes, i personally go by the monarchs when it come to single tribute "Effect" monsters, as Summoned Skull is "Normal" it needs that extra ATK to basically compete(even tho nowadays you have normal single tributes coming out at around 2600-2800 just to compete) with all the Special summoned Synchros and Xyz monsters out nowadays.
[/quote]
Judging by Monarchs, Deckscavator can at least stand up in battle. Thanks for the advice.

[Garthfunkle Vii Backwards]

maybe make it lv 6 with a unquie special summoning that is a disadvantage ?
maybe like ...

EARTH
Level 6
Machine/Effect
This card can not be Special Summoni except by this card effect. You can Special Summon this card (from your Hand) when your Opponent controls 2 or more monsters and you do not control any monsters and draw 1 card from the top of your Opponent's Deck (if this card was special summoned you do not Draw during your next Draw Phase, this card can not attack or activate its effect until your next Ffirst Main Phase) Once per turn, during your Main Phase, you can draw 1 card from the top of your opponent's deck. This monster cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Herman The German' timestamp='1336031794' post='5931551']
maybe make it lv 6 with a unquie special summoning that is a disadvantage ?
maybe like ...

EARTH
Level 6
Machine/Effect
This card can not be Special Summoni except by this card effect. You can Special Summon this card (from your Hand) when your Opponent controls 2 or more monsters and you do not control any monsters and draw 1 card from the top of your Opponent's Deck (if this card was special summoned you do not Draw during your next Draw Phase, this card can not attack or activate its effect until your next Ffirst Main Phase) Once per turn, during your Main Phase, you can draw 1 card from the top of your opponent's deck. This monster cannot attack during the turn you activate this effect.
[/quote]

You're over-thinking this. I made this to be a simple, utilitarian monster. Your idea is full unnecessarily of needless (and poorly written) prerequisites.

[Redgrave]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1336044122' post='5931576']
You're over-thinking this. I made this to be a simple, utilitarian monster. Your idea is full unnecessarily of needless (and poorly written) prerequisites.
[/quote]

Thats one of the reasons i like this card, its simple strait forward and does what you want it to. If people wanna overthink simplicity let them, as far as im concerned, only thing that would ever need changing is maybe make its atk 2400 or make it a lvl 6, and even then it's not really that necisary to do any such thing. As i said before, Play test this card, see how it runs, THEN judge how(if at all) to modify it. More then not most people will find its a really good card, really well balanced for the current state of the game and then prolly lay off, granted youd prolly get less feedback about it, but you might not want the feedback in general.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Redgrave' timestamp='1336117204' post='5932340']
Thats one of the reasons i like this card, its simple strait forward and does what you want it to. If people wanna overthink simplicity let them, as far as im concerned, only thing that would ever need changing is maybe make its atk 2400 or make it a lvl 6, and even then it's not really that necisary to do any such thing. As i said before, Play test this card, see how it runs, THEN judge how(if at all) to modify it. More then not most people will find its a really good card, really well balanced for the current state of the game and then prolly lay off, granted youd prolly get less feedback about it, but you might not want the feedback in general.
[/quote]
Thank you, Redgrave.

[Love of Ghibli]

This card is OP

Change of heart, Snatch Steal, and brain control were banned because you were able to take something for little cost and even those cards we're a temporary this thing is a permanent steal. With this card you gain hand advantage with someone else's deck! How this that not overpowered? At least with Amazoness Chain Master she had to die by battle, pay 1500 life points, AND the card had to be a monster. And even then the opponent knew what you were taking. Who cares if he can't attack? I personally wouldn't attack with him. I would rather get the free card from the opponent any day.

This isn't a side deck card its a main deck card. There is no way you could get a useless card because there is the base fact that your opponent is not going to get that card AND they do not even know what card they will never get. At least with all other cards that involve stealing or switching your opponent knows what is being taken this card breaks that basic fairness.

The more I think about it the more broken this card is and because it is so simple it is hard to say what I would change. I would say make it monarch like and it can do the draw steal move when it is tribute summoned.

[NeoTwice]

I agree with Beginning, this seems broken to me.
Althoug I would love to see 2 decks built around this monster going head to head and see one person end up with 5 on the field at once.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='Beginning446' timestamp='1336478313' post='5935024']
This card is OP

Change of heart, Snatch Steal, and brain control were banned because you were able to take something for little cost and even those cards we're a temporary this thing is a permanent steal. With this card you gain hand advantage with someone else's deck! How this that not overpowered? At least with Amazoness Chain Master she had to die by battle, pay 1500 life points, AND the card had to be a monster. And even then the opponent knew what you were taking. Who cares if he can't attack? I personally wouldn't attack with him. I would rather get the free card from the opponent any day.

This isn't a side deck card its a main deck card. There is no way you could get a useless card because there is the base fact that your opponent is not going to get that card AND they do not even know what card they will never get. At least with all other cards that involve stealing or switching your opponent knows what is being taken this card breaks that basic fairness.

The more I think about it the more broken this card is and because it is so simple it is hard to say what I would change. I would say make it monarch like and it can do the draw steal move when it is tribute summoned.
[/quote]
That seems fair, and I can see your point. My rationalization was that if you got a card that you couldn't use, it would be more of a mill, which is still damaging (but not to an extreme degree). Remember that you don't know what you'll get either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a considerable difference between [i]gross hand advantage[/i] (the number of cards in your hand) and [i]meaningful hand advantage [/i](the number of cards in your hand [i]you can actually use[/i])? Given the often insular (i.e., archetype support cards support their archetype, and little else) nature of decks nowadays, you could end up with a card that would be nigh-worthless in your play strategy. Unless your strategy consists [i]entirely[/i] of stealing other people's cards--which is difficult, considering most stealing cards are banned--you could hamper yourself by taking useless cards, or possibly help your opponent by taking cards they don't need. Even in a svelte 40-card deck, there's bound to be some support cards that won't be needed in every duel; and if you take one of those, you could help thin your opponent's deck. That said, the operative word here is "could[i]"[/i], and I can see possibilities for abuse. Thanks for your critique.

Considering I want to keep "Deckscavator"'s effect simple, would it be better if I made a counter card or two? Maybe a card that inflicts damage if the opponent takes it from your deck, or one that allows you to draw from your opponent's deck if they steal a card from your deck?

[zeldaneverends]

its a good card just needs a draw back tbh how about the turn this effect was used you can not conduct your battle phase. also maybe suggesting that the card cannot be special summoned.

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='zeldaneverends' timestamp='1336498011' post='5935139']
its a good card just needs a draw back tbh how about the turn this effect was used you can not conduct your battle phase. also maybe suggesting that the card cannot be special summoned.
[/quote]
It already says that this card cannot attack if you use its effect. Did you not read the card's effect?

[zeldaneverends]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1336499061' post='5935143']
It already says that this card cannot attack if you use its effect. Did you not read the card's effect?
[/quote]
obvi i did if im posting but for a card of that effect which gives so much advantage i believe a bigger draw back is needed is all or just making the card effect instead of drawing during ur draw phase u can draw 1 card off the top of ur opponent deck. then making it able not to attack the turn that effect was used

[Stan Alda]

[quote name='zeldaneverends' timestamp='1336499456' post='5935148']
obvi i did if im posting but for a card of that effect which gives so much advantage i believe a bigger draw back is needed is all
[/quote]
OK, that makes more sense. Judging from your first post, it sounded more like it needed [i]a[/i] drawback, which it already has (albeit a small one). I'm not sure if disallowing Special Summons would help, but I could add another cost without too much trouble.

Now that you mention it, making this draw during your Draw Phase makes much more sense than during the Main Phase. I can dig that (pun intended).

[zeldaneverends]

[quote name='Stan Alda' timestamp='1336499631' post='5935150']
OK, that makes more sense. Judging from your first post, it sounded more like it needed [i]a[/i] drawback, which it already has (albeit a small one). I'm not sure if disallowing Special Summons would help, but I could add another cost without too much trouble.

Now that you mention it, making this draw during your Draw Phase makes much more sense than during the Main Phase. I can dig that (pun intended).
[/quote]

lawl that pun made me laugh and yah the effect during the draw phase would balance the card out very nicely

[Stan Alda]

I wrote a couple of alternate effects below the card on the first post. Give them a look and tell me what you think.