Βyakuya Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Kabasaurus' timestamp='1341769264' post='5970694'] Personally I think Leviair should be banned as it defies the point of banished cards and summons a banished card way too easily for way too little input. Also I'm iffy about banning Gaia Dragon so early on as it hasn't really proven to be purely broken yet, and although I agree that the Chaos Xyz summon method is kind of broken it's hardly a threat and needs quite a big cost. The reasoning behind the ban seems solid though so maybe you're right. [/quote] The reason Leviair is seemingly broken is because of TGU making it easy; Similar to Evolzar Laggia and Rescue Rabbit. Out side of TGU, I nothing wrong as it's a fine card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Wildflame' timestamp='1341703609' post='5969902']And come on!, who the heck uses Self-Destruct Button anyways?[/quote] You rang? [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341697003' post='5969738']@Self-Destruct Button: What's wrong with my reasoning then?[/quote] The error in your reasoning is how Self-Destruct Button has never been used in tournaments since about 5 years ago. Why would Konami hit a card that can't be used in tournaments? And why would Konami even care about it in the first place? Just sayin. Also, Brionac won't be killed because of Chaos Dragon/Inzektor/Wind-Up Format overshadows it's use. Another reason would be that the previous format discouraged the use of Synchro Monsters. And do note that I used a similar reasoning last format in describing why Brionac would not be banned this format. If anything, the one Wind-Up card that SHOULD be banned needs to be Wind-Up Rat. It is the card responsible for being able to reabuse Hunter. By banning Rat, the player will have to rely on being able to get multiple copies of Shark or even Instant Fusion in the hand to abuse Hunter. Putting a limit (or even a semi-limit) on Zenmaity would also help balance the deck as a whole, but I doubt it will happen. By doing so, it will help reduce the need for Maxx "C" or Effect Veiler in that respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 This is more of a "my own list" than one I fully expect Konami to do. @Brio, refer to previous statement. So, instead of banning the one that's out of place and sole use is hand looping, you want me to ban a card the deck makes good use of? Wat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiithepeople Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341782092' post='5970858'] So, instead of banning the one that's out of place and sole use is hand looping, you want me to ban a card the deck makes good use of? Wat? [/quote] Just like the last guy who said that he didn't believe that Hunter was the problem (whom I totally agree with on this issue), banning it won't make the deck any less broken. Zenmaity is just too much of an autopilot card. But if you can't comprehend me or the other guy's reasoning, let's think of this in a different way. Why do you think Hornet should get banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 Do you actually know what autopilot is? Spamming 3 Zenmaitys will rarely ever win a duel. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 With all due respect, even though you say you car for TCG only, you mentioned getting rid of OTK-only cards. Example of this being Dupe. Where's Rekindling, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1341783426' post='5970906'] With all due respect, even though you say you car for TCG only, you mentioned getting rid of OTK-only cards. Example of this being Dupe. Where's Rekindling, then? [/quote] Dupe was more clear-cut OTKs. Rekindling in the TCG can't even do that without 40 turns to setup. Would make sense to limit it though, I guess. Need more of a compelling argument really rather than "needs way too long to setup but it OTKs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341783544' post='5970908'] Dupe was more clear-cut OTKs. Rekindling in the TCG can't even do that without 40 turns to setup. Would make sense to limit it though, I guess. Need more of a compelling argument really rather than "needs way too long to setup but it OTKs." [/quote] No card that can produce +4s should walk away Scott Free. Another mindless OTK card which might go unnoticed is Short Circuit. Micro-Cell and Charger are a joke to pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadius Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hey Chris, since when is burn skillful? Also what stops me from playing Offering Gadgets and auto-winning if I get my Shock Masters out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Shadius' timestamp='1341803903' post='5971299'] Hey Chris, since when is burn skillful? Also what stops me from playing Offering Gadgets and auto-winning if I get my Shock Masters out? [/quote] I actually completely forgot about Burn... And how the f*** does one actually kill burn? The fact that Offering is semi'd and Offering Gadgets are bad? Heck, I forgot Shock Master even existed since it isn't legal in Europe. But yeah if Offering Gadgets [i]were[/i] to be any good then it'd be a simple case of banning Offering, but I doubt that they'd make even a slight impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadius Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341804088' post='5971302'] I actually completely forgot about Burn... And how the f*** does one actually kill burn? The fact that Offering is semi'd and Offering Gadgets are bad? Heck, I forgot Shock Master even existed since it isn't legal in Europe. But yeah if Offering Gadgets [i]were[/i] to be any good then it'd be a simple case of banning Offering, but I doubt that they'd make even a slight impact. [/quote] Kill stall cards or kill cards like Cylinder/Chain Strike? The stuff where they get most of their damage. Offering Gadgets wouldn't be that bad in a format like this, the ability to good sized monsters like Machina Fortress in a format that is based around being more balanced what deck would really over beat on it? It also seems like you didn't really address Chaos Dragons either, you got rid of BLS, hit Tour Guide, and Future Fusion but the deck is still pretty solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Shadius' timestamp='1341804257' post='5971305'] Kill stall cards or kill cards like Cylinder/Chain Strike? The stuff where they get most of their damage. Offering Gadgets wouldn't be that bad in a format like this, the ability to good sized monsters like Machina Fortress in a format that is based around being more balanced what deck would really over beat on it? It also seems like you didn't really address Chaos Dragons either, you got rid of BLS, hit Tour Guide, and Future Fusion but the deck is still pretty solid. [/quote] Other than Chain Strike idk what to really hit, I mean the options that make most sense would likely involve basically: Ban Chain Strike Ban Ojama Trio Limit Secret Barrel But that seems a bit like it's overdoing it even if they are used for nothing else. What can Chaos Dragons do exactly? They have no TGU, no FuFu, no BLS and no REDMD. You can make Chaos, yeah, but nothing more than that, and it doesn't look like it'd be that great with the best chaos bosses (BLS and REDMD) both gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Hitting Ojama Trio would be a decent way to hurt Chain Burn IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadius Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341804528' post='5971309'] Other than Chain Strike idk what to really hit, I mean the options that make most sense would likely involve basically: Ban Chain Strike Ban Ojama Trio Limit Secret Barrel But that seems a bit like it's overdoing it even if they are used for nothing else. What can Chaos Dragons do exactly? They have no TGU, no FuFu, no BLS and no REDMD. You can make Chaos, yeah, but nothing more than that, and it doesn't look like it'd be that great with the best chaos bosses (BLS and REDMD) both gone. [/quote] Chain Strike, Secret Barrel, and One Day of Peace would hurt burn. As for Chaos Dragons we've been having that discussion, we as in the best players in my area and the people I know that are good at the game. Without TGU, FuFu (which was just win more), BLS (Win more) and REDMD the deck still can drop big monsters. I mean yeah you slow it down but you would be able to run 3 trooper in your format, the LS engine would still help with milling, Foolish is still a card too. You have a slower format as it is so it would still be a stable deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 What else can you even do to hit the deck more outside of hitting Chaos Sorc? I mean the deck's pretty much lost all its big bosses and loop plays, the best variant you can make is Chaos, ignoring the dragons pretty much entirely. it doesn't seem like much of an impact at all. I still don't believe One Day should really be hit, it's a -1 and with the right list there is no decks that can abuse its secondary effect so much, and seeing as Ojama Trio is a big part of it, it seems like the right decision would be Chain Strike, Trio and Barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadius Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341805676' post='5971325'] What else can you even do to hit the deck more outside of hitting Chaos Sorc? I mean the deck's pretty much lost all its big bosses and loop plays, the best variant you can make is Chaos, ignoring the dragons pretty much entirely. it doesn't seem like much of an impact at all. I still don't believe One Day should really be hit, it's a -1 and with the right list there is no decks that can abuse its secondary effect so much, and seeing as Ojama Trio is a big part of it, it seems like the right decision would be Chain Strike, Trio and Barrel. [/quote] -shrug- It's your list not mine I just pointed out things I noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Shadius' timestamp='1341806041' post='5971333'] -shrug- It's your list not mine I just pointed out things I noticed. [/quote] And I'm asking you to elaborate. Honestly, how threatening does a deck that can at best spam a 2300 beater a few times actually seem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadius Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341806223' post='5971342'] And I'm asking you to elaborate. Honestly, how threatening does a deck that can at best spam a 2300 beater a few times actually seem? [/quote] Because appearantly Dark Armed Dragon, Light Pulsar Dragon, and Dark Flare Dragon don't exist? Pretty sure a 2500 is still pretty solid, Dark Armed wouldn't be too hard to drop either. The deck could be adapted to be ran into a more control deck or find cards to fill the void. Now if the format stayed how it was and it completely lost tour guide and redmd, the deck would be running a bit slower and would struggle keeping up but the other cards would keep it playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Just going to play Konami here for a few seconds. From your changes, here's what I can see Konami actually doing. [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1341694176' post='5969694'] [spoiler=Forbidden]Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning *NEW* [b](Problem Card)[/b] Gorz the Emissary of Darkness *NEW* [b](Problem Card, but it may be a necessary evil as an anti-OTK card)[/b] Inzektor Hornet *NEW* [b](Problem Card, Rotates Inzektors out of the meta)[/b] Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon *NEW* [b](Problem Card, Rotates Chaos Dragons out of the meta and bumps Hieratics down a notch)[/b] Wind-Up Hunter *NEW* [b](Problem Card, won't necessarily kill Wind-Ups)[/b] Gladiator Beast Gyzarus [b]*NEW* (Have been thinking about how to bring Glads back, this is an option. Not necessarily one that needs to be done, but it's a possibility. If we feel like Glads should get a boost and think this will help, we'll do it)[/b] Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger *NEW*[b](Problem Card, I see this more like BoM's case. It's a great card for one deck, but abusive in others as well. BoM is a main deck card, however, and this is an extra deck card, so it could definitely be on the ban-cannon's radar.[/b] Final Countdown *NEW* ([b]Problem card? I'm not actually sure if Konami really sees it as a problem, that's the issue.)[/b] Future Fusion *NEW* [b](Problem Card, doesn't severely hurt any decks, easy hit)[/b] [/spoiler] [spoiler=Limited] Judgment Dragon *NEW* [b](Like I said about Gyzarus, we could flip around the bans to try and bring up Lightsworns. Though I see that you've simply limited JD, I think it'd be alright to give them back one or two of there other limited/semi'd cards without a problem. Both if you ban JD)[/b] Rescue Rabbit *NEW* [b](Problem Card. We still want to encourage Xyz's and Rabbit is one of the best at it. It will be extremely tough to use, however, in any regular deck with TGU at 1 as well.)[/b] Snoww, Unlight of Dark World *NEW* [b](Dark Worlds may need a hit, but I wonder if they truly will. I haven't seen them do any sort of thing at any tournaments recently, so I wonder if they need a hit yet.)[/b] Tour Guide from the Underworld *NEW* [b](Problem Card. Almost every deck now NEEDS to run it to keep up. Therefore, by forcibly taking up space in every deck, it needs to be rid of, even if it's only TCG. By limiting it, you also limit the amount of decks it can be played in)[/b] Miracle Fusion *NEW* [b](Possible Problem Card. HEROs are #2 in the OCG and a very strong anti-meta deck in the TCG, they need a little hit to make sure they don't overpower the entire meta next format. Of course... maybe that's what we want :3)[/b] [/spoiler] [spoiler=Semi-Limited]Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind *NEW* [b](Only if we feel like Blackwing decks could use the boost)[/b] T.G. Striker *NEW* [b](Only if we feel like T.G. Agents won't overpower the meta with this)[/b] The Agent of Mystery - Earth *NEW* [b](See above)[/b] [/spoiler] [spoiler=Newly Unlimited]Card Trooper [b](I don't want to move it just yet. It was a staple @2 in Chaos Dragons so I want to wait at least a format before we bring it back to 3.[/b] Spore [b](Many of us don't feel like it should come back because it's a +1 from the Graveyard for no cost, but some have argued that the banishment really is a cost, so we may be able to give it a try)[/b] Gladiator Beast Bestiari [b](See Gladiator Beast Gyzarus)[/b] Tsukuyomi [b](It's certainly worth the test, but I'd think that starting it at limited or semi'd would be the best route)[/b] Book of Moon [b](I explained our feelings toward this card when talking about Gaia Dragon, and BoM has been back and forth a lot. While putting it @3 would slow the format down and give several decks a great new resource, it may also force everyone to play 3, something we don't want to do. I think if we are going to move it, we should simply test the waters and put it @2)[/b][/spoiler] [/quote] So just to go over what I think is a definite next format: Forbidden: Inzektor Hornet Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Wind-Up Hunter Future Fusion Limited: Rescue Rabbit Tour Guide from the Underworld Though I do feel that Rabbit and TGU could be in different spots. Those that I feel could be moved based on being a problem or making some decks too good: Forbidden: Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning <- I'm just not sure after it staying for this format Gorz the Emissary of Darkness <-Konami may not feel the same way most others do. Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Final Countdown Limited: Snoww, Unlight of Dark World Miracle Fusion Everything else, I feel would only be used to try and boost or lower certain decks to cycle in the next round of top tiered decks. And those are my thoughts. *leaves never to return* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Lol Exodia and Countdown being banned. Yeah, that's never gonna happen. Know why? Because even though they are skill-less decks, there's always a chance that they either mess up or you beat them before they meet their win. Matter of fact, that's a BIG chance. Also, book of moon at 3? Dude, wind-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1341815314' post='5971497'] Lol Exodia and Countdown being banned. Yeah, that's never gonna happen. Know why? Because even though they are skill-less decks, there's always a chance that they either mess up or you beat them before they meet their win. Matter of fact, that's a BIG chance. [/quote] We dont want even 1 in every 10 people getting a free win off a lolnoskill.dek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1341815521' post='5971499'] We dont want even 1 in every 10 people getting a free win off a lolnoskill.dek [/quote] So tell me how Konami is going to care about what you guys want. You know how they are, them with their logic. No, I don't play the two decks anymore, but I still don't see Exodia and countdown ever being banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Konami should ban Exodia and Countdown if not for being broken, but for being old cards that aren't being sold anymore that are favored over the new cards that are being sold. /argument to persuade the company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='God Machismo!!!!!' timestamp='1341816378' post='5971511'] /argument to persuade the company [/quote] Good luck with that. *Waits for September so I get to laugh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 [quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1341816039' post='5971508'] So tell me how Konami is going to care about what you guys want. You know how they are, them with their logic. No, I don't play the two decks anymore, but I still don't see Exodia and countdown ever being banned. [/quote]Explain to me why Konami cares in general. This thread is in no way trying to persuade Konami, to use that logic as an argument isn't helping anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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