thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [img]http://yugico.com/customcard/89642.jpg[/img] Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo + Gilasaurus When this card is Fusion Summoned: Destroy all other Special Summoned monsters on the field. Neither player can Special Summon monsters. If your opponent Special Summons a monster: You must Special Summon this card from your Graveyard in face-up Attack Position. Hilarious name, great card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 > Play Instant Fusion > Every single deck has Royal Oppression Feel free to add "Must first be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343587919' post='5991980'] > Play Instant Fusion > Every single deck has Royal Oppression Feel free to add "Must first be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon". [/quote] You do realize that all Fusion Monsters have that effect built in, right? You do realize it doesn't negate the Special Summon it used to get Special Summoned by, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1343589614' post='5991999'] You do realize that all Fusion Monsters have that effect built in, right? You do realize it doesn't negate the Special Summon it used to get Special Summoned by, right? [/quote] 1. I'm probably doing the wrong wording. In old OCG wording: "This monster can only be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon (from the Extra Deck) or by its own effect." 2. Yes. It still wastes opponents' turns like a machine gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='9913589614' post='5991999'] You do realize that all Fusion Monsters have that effect built in, right? [/quote] They don't. Some can be softcast by Summoner of Illusions because they don't list that condition. I think this card is OK. The materials are flavorful, the ATK and DEF are surmountable, and it's Summoned in face-up ATK so it mainly stops Tour Guide and Hieratics. The only issue I have is how it revives itself indefinitely. How about "This card cannot be Tributed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1343591520' post='5992027'] They don't. Some can be softcast by Summoner of Illusions because they don't list that condition. I think this card is OK. The materials are flavorful, the ATK and DEF are surmountable, and it's Summoned in face-up ATK so it mainly stops Tour Guide and Hieratics. The only issue I have is how it revives itself indefinitely. How about "This card cannot be Tributed"? [/quote] Maybe I should make the Special Summon from Graveyard effect mandatory. That way people won't play it except in a deck that doesn't do much Special Summoning itself. Since there are basically no useful tribute monsters except for Raiza, Caius, LADD and DMOC if it ever gets unbanned, and even those are underpowered (well not DMOC) I don't think it would be a problem. [quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]It still wastes opponents' turns like a machine gun. [/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]No, it doesn't. It just prevents your opponent's abusive cards. Any deck in which basically 2 Special Summons (1 before battle phase, 1 after) and 1 Normal Summon, AND prevention of your opponents Special Summons next turn is considered a wasted turn is already vastly OP'd. [/size][/font][/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well, maybe an overstatement, but still shouldn't be able to be Instant Noodled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343587919' post='5991980'] > Play Instant Fusion > Every single deck has Royal Oppression Feel free to add "Must first be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon". [/quote] [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Instant_Fusion"]http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Instant_Fusion[/url] [quote] (This Special Summon is treated as a Fusion Summon.) [/quote] Wouldn't make a difference bro. Also a note, it only destroys stuff when Fusion Summoned. So if it summons itself by its own effect, it doesn't destroy anything. [quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1343589614' post='5991999'] You do realize that all Fusion Monsters have that effect built in, right? [/quote] Wrong. Js. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1343594054' post='5992062'] [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Instant_Fusion"]http://yugioh.wikia..../Instant_Fusion[/url] Wouldn't make a difference bro. Also a note, it only destroys stuff when Fusion Summoned. So if it summons itself by its own effect, it doesn't destroy anything. Wrong. Js. [/quote] I was trying to point out it had to be Fusion Summoned first, in order to be Summoned again, considering she said "must FIRST be Fusion Summoned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 As said, wrong wording. i.e. "This monster can only be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon (from the Extra Deck) or by its own effect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343595072' post='5992075'] As said, wrong wording. i.e. "This monster can only be Special Summoned by Fusion Summon (from the Extra Deck) or by its own effect." [/quote] Are you really that worried about Summoner of Illusions? Considering it self destructs and Summoner gets 0 play anyway, I hardly think we have to compensate, lol. Edit: Just so you know, summoning it with Summoner would not do much of anything because it can't come back by its effect when summoned that way. Just making sure you know. It just turns Summoner into a Pachy flip effect that requires a tribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hmm, "Must first be Fusion Summon using the above Fusion Materials", in the same vein as Rainbow Neos. It's probably not broken for every deck to have access to this, but it's bad design for every deck to have access to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343595539' post='5992084'] Hmm, "Must first be Fusion Summon using the above Fusion Materials", in the same vein as Rainbow Neos. It's probably not broken for every deck to have access to this, but it's bad design for every deck to have access to this. [/quote] In other words, basically make it completely unplayable. And "every deck" won't have access to it because there is no easy way to get rid of it on your side of the field and it stops your specs as well. Its probably best for Frognarchs and Anti-meta/stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 "no easy way to get rid of it on your side of the field" Attack an opponent's monster? Besides, I'd rather it be unplayable than purposefully badly designed. It's perfectly easy to sweep an opponent's field and carry on with your own Special Summons and OTK with this and Instant Fusion. Only way I can think of making it good design is remove that awful first effect and possibly make the last effect compulsory. Might not be as usable, but better than a mini-nuker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343596334' post='5992100'] "no easy way to get rid of it on your side of the field" Attack an opponent's monster? Besides, I'd rather it be unplayable than purposefully badly designed. It's perfectly easy to sweep an opponent's field and carry on with your own Special Summons and OTK with this and Instant Fusion. Only way I can think of making it good design is remove that awful first effect and possibly make the last effect compulsory. Might not be as usable, but better than a mini-nuker. [/quote] I am going to make the last effect compulsory. But as for the rest of what you are saying, I don't even... How exactly do you plan to do a Special Summon OTK if you can't Special Summon? Special Summon -then- Instant Fusion this card? In that case, it destroys all Special Summoned monsters anyway, so thats not really going to work. Instant Fusion and use it as a Dark Hole? In that case, you can't Special Summon, until it dies. It would take turns of setup, and would require an extra card in your hand just to prevent any additional Special Summons during their turn, when they will probably just kill the card anyway to get a 2nd Special Summon. Remember, it CAN'T trigger on your own Special Summons, so its not like I can wait until my last Special Summon for the turn and protect my self from Gorz/Trag. I honestly don't understand why you are so obsessed with protecting Special Summons. Any card that anybody releases that stops them you claim is bad design for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Meh, oversight on my part regarding the 'carry on SSing and OTK' bit. I'm more worried on its card advantage. Most cases, it's basically at least a +1 from the hand. Besides, I'm pretty sure most decks wouldn't mind not Special Summoning for a bit for a Dark Hole. I'm not arguing that it's balanced, because it pretty much is (ignoring my previous fail). It's balanced. It's still pretty bad design though. An interesting way to basically fix all my qualms is to change the first sentence to: "When this card is Fusion Summoned with the above Fusion Materials: Destroy all other Special Summoned monsters on the field." In which case, it's about on the same level as Vanity's Emptiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343597894' post='5992132'] Meh, oversight on my part regarding the 'carry on SSing and OTK' bit. I'm more worried on its card advantage. Most cases, it's basically at least a +1 from the hand. Besides, I'm pretty sure most decks wouldn't mind not Special Summoning for a bit for a Dark Hole. I'm not arguing that it's balanced, because it pretty much is (ignoring my previous fail). It's balanced. It's still pretty bad design though. An interesting way to basically fix all my qualms is to change the first sentence to: "When this card is Fusion Summoned with the above Fusion Materials: Destroy all other Special Summoned monsters on the field." In which case, it's about on the same level as Vanity's Emptiness. [/quote] There is NO GUARANTEED +1. In order for it to be a +1, your opponent would have to have 2 Special Summoned monsters, none of which are things like Zenmaines, AND you would have to have 0. Oh, and it costs 1000 Life Points. Oh, and you can't Special Summon for the remainder of the turn. Decks that don't Special Summon could use a +1 against decks that only Special Summon anyways. The hillarious part is, the destruction is actually a balancing factor. If I changed it to what you are suggesting, it would actually become MORE broken in exactly the WRONG type of decks. It COULD be used as a way to protect your swarm, you just Special Summon like crazy, Instant Fusion into it, and then use it like a royal oppression. The Special Summon destruction stops it from being used that way. The decks it would be used in is EXACTLY the types of decks I would be trying to use it against, i.e. things like Rescue Rabbit, and it WOULD work like Vanities Emptiness, i.e. basically unusable except sometimes used as a tech in the problematic decks to make them even more problematic. In other words: it can only be used as a Dark Hole against decks that are already problematic, and just as Heavy Storm is used to prevent "lol, set 5 end turn" formats, this could be used to prevent "lol, special summon 5 end turn" formats. Only, thats where the similarities with Heavy Storm end. It -can't- be used to protect your OTKs, it -isn't- going to become a staple, by any strength of the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well, I cannot think of a design-orientated solution outside of making it non-usable with Instant Fusion, which you seem to be against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343602812' post='5992184'] Well, I cannot think of a design-orientated solution outside of making it non-usable with Instant Fusion, which you seem to be against. [/quote] Perhaps we could come up with a solution if we knew the problem? So far, I have not heard any real problem. All I have heard it that "its bad card design, but still bad card design." Care to explain why its bad card design if it isn't a balance issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guuu1234 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 this card is nicely balanced. my only complaint would be that it is too weak. after all, why would i waste my dyno to summon this if they have the same atk? even if this does revive itself. in terms of instant fusion, there is no problem. because it doesn't get any benefits if it's not fusion summoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquispullie Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 i see rock stun or dinos getting Rank 5 xyz potential with this card in play. it would be beneficial against decks that rely on special summoning because it becomes that of a treeborn frog in a sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekazu4u Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='marquispullie' timestamp='1343608176' post='5992309'] i see rock stun or dinos getting Rank 5 xyz potential with this card in play. it would be beneficial against decks that rely on special summoning because it becomes that of a treeborn frog in a sense. [/quote] Read the card again, and you will realize that it removes potential for all Xyzs, doesn't add rank 5 potential.[quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1343607905' post='5992298'] this card is nicely balanced. my only complaint would be that it is too weak. after all, why would i waste my dyno to summon this if they have the same atk? even if this does revive itself. in terms of instant fusion, there is no problem. because it doesn't get any benefits if it's not fusion summoned. [/quote] Instant Fusion is a Fusion Summon. (That makes this card worth it). And I would trade a Pachy and gilla for this any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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