Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 14, 2012 Report Share Posted September 14, 2012 [center]Objective 1: Give Gladiator Beasts a viable form of competing with more decks, give them more plausible speed and make Test Tiger plays more value in playing.[/center] [center]Objective 2: Give Gladiator Beasts another way of getting around key boss monsters so that they are no longer 1 card trampled or are forced to waste valuable resources to get around said key monsters (key monsters include: Stardust Dragon/BLS/Scrap Dragon, etc)[/center] [center]Result from these objectives:[/center] [center][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/111453.jpg[/img][/center] [center][b]Lore:[/b][/center] [center].[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]2 "Gladiator Beast" monsters[/size][/font][/color][/center] [color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]Must first be Special Summoned (from your Extra Deck) by shuffling the above cards you control into the deck. (You do not use "Polymerization".) When this card is Special Summoned: You can banish 1 card on the field. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck.[/size][/font][/color] [center][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/111452.jpg[/img][/center] [center][b]Lore:[/b][/center] [center][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]When this card is Special Summoned by the effect of a "Gladiator Beast" monster: Add 1 "Gladiator" Spell or Trap Card from your Deck to your hand. That card cannot be activated this turn. At the end of the Battle Phase, if this card attacked or was attacked: You can shuffle it into the Deck; Special Summon 1 "Gladiator Beast" monster from your Deck, except "Gladiator Beast Prodegius".[/size][/font][/color][/center] [center][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3]So do your thing YCM~[/size][/font][/color][/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sickly bump since I can't do it during the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Since you asked me to review, I'm going to, but I'm about to sleep right now and besides there's not much to say so it'll prolly be a bit short compared to my other reviews (on the meh cards). The first card is - I dunno, it works as a faster Gyzarus given it could be summoned easier in MP1 so I suppose it's good enough (on the other hand, Gyzarus is the 100% better choice for MP2, given how the GBs recruit each other). Could give it 2300-ish something though, maybe. At least higher than the Thrasher line of 2100. I think it's fine otherwise, nice. The second one is the problem. I know, the power balance is corrupted, but have you thought of what this would do if released? If you attack sucessfully with any GB, this comes out along with a Bestiari, and poof-MP2, there's a Gyzarus sticking his middle finger up at your opponent's wasteland of a field. Hey, I've seen this before! What was it called? I N Z E K T O R S. Okay, maybe not as broken as Inzektors given it's MP2, but still an instant massive-advantage-gainer isn't my idea of a good card to support an already semi-competitive deck. And well, there's no real way to fix this out as this sorta card would either be as broken as this, or be as toilet paper as Secutor. Pretty much all I've got to say. You prolly got enough knowledge on the meta to understand that the 2nd card is, upon closer inspection, the definition of a scooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted September 18, 2012 Report Share Posted September 18, 2012 Promastus is not as strong as Gyzarus but it's very easy to Summon, especially with Prodegius or [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Gladiator_Beast_Andal"]Rescue Rabbit[/url], and its effect is harder to block. I'm not sure why you can't Summon Prodegius with the effect of Promastus. You can't target cards in the Deck. Unlike Darius, you don't need any set-up to use Prodegius. So it would be an instant Gyzarus or Promastus if you pulled its effect off. Its low ATK doesn't matter much because it doesn't need to battle for that combo. Who's Kenji Inuma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1347978573' post='6027292'] The first card is - I dunno, it works as a faster Gyzarus given it could be summoned easier in MP1 so I suppose it's good enough (on the other hand, Gyzarus is the 100% better choice for MP2, given how the GBs recruit each other). Could give it 2300-ish something though, maybe. At least higher than the Thrasher line of 2100. I think it's fine otherwise, nice. [/quote] Hmm, higher attack...I guess that would be nice. Will edit to....yeah 2300 does seem to be the balance of power for him. Still keeping him as a Level 4 though. It could provide some other form of flexibility. [quote name='Darkplant - VENOM' timestamp='1347978573' post='6027292'] The second one is the problem. I know, the power balance is corrupted, but have you thought of what this would do if released? If you attack sucessfully with any GB, this comes out along with a Bestiari, and poof-MP2, there's a Gyzarus sticking his middle finger up at your opponent's wasteland of a field. Hey, I've seen this before! What was it called? I N Z E K T O R S. Okay, maybe not as broken as Inzektors given it's MP2, but still an instant massive-advantage-gainer isn't my idea of a good card to support an already semi-competitive deck. And well, there's no real way to fix this out as this sorta card would either be as broken as this, or be as toilet paper as Secutor. [/quote] And this was the one I needed revising :/ I was definetly aware of how it could affect the meta because of all the "corrupt" power balance out there and I was indeed trying to make them more power "friendly" but the Gyzarus plays are going to be a pain...I think I have an idea that will make this card a little less on the power creep. Perhaps a "Stratos" type effect for Glad Beast Spell/Traps since I don't want the monsters (even though Proving Grounds is a bad hammer on this anyway). Anyways, I'll do something about him. [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1347986492' post='6027389'] Promastus is not as strong as Gyzarus but it's very easy to Summon, especially with Prodegius or [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Gladiator_Beast_Andal"]Rescue Rabbit[/url], and its effect is harder to block. I'm not sure why you can't Summon Prodegius with the effect of Promastus. [/quote] I suppose it was because I was trying to prevent the whole Prodegius -> Promastus -> Prodegius combo that ran in my head, but I will edit the card so that it's still able to be a flexible Fusion for Glads so that they can "do something about the meta" without being completely broke. [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1347986492' post='6027389'] You can't target cards in the Deck. [/quote] Derp moment was derp .-. [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1347986492' post='6027389'] Unlike Darius, you don't need any set-up to use Prodegius. So it would be an instant Gyzarus or Promastus if you pulled its effect off. Its low ATK doesn't matter much because it doesn't need to battle for that combo. [/quote] Yeah :/ Will be fixing that. [quote name='newhat' timestamp='1347986492' post='6027389'] Who's Kenji Inuma? [/quote] That would be a character from a certain manga I've read.Done! The edits are as follows: Promastus:[list] [*]ATK increase to 2300 [*]DEF decrease to 1800 [*]Can now SS any Gladiator after battle. [/list] Prodegius[list] [*]No longer SS any Gladiator when Summoned. [*]Adds a "Gladiator" Spell/Trap Card to your hand except you can't activate said card during that turn (you CAN set). [*]ATK increase to 1300. [/list] I honestly think this would be a bit better. Being able to add those Chariots from your deck to your hand makes it an easier card to handle and now you can decrease the number of Chariots to 2 while making Proving Grounds a handy card for next turn and does make all other Gladiator Spell/Traps just a wee bit more viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Bumping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 Like I said before, in that other thread. Promastus is broken. I guess this is what power creep nowadays calls for, but... Generic materials, and decent stats. That is what Essedari was made for, yes. Removal not unlike Bestiari's but generic and banishing. Half as disruptive as Gyzarus, but also ignores Starlight which is being played more and more. Then generic tagging is also ridiculous. You could just derp and get Darius then something else then make him again. Looping is, by my books, not good for the game. Inzektor-not-good for the game. The other guy, he IS what Glads need. A way to search Chariot that isn't suckish Samnite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348159982' post='6028753'] Generic materials, and decent stats. That is what Essedari was made for, yes. [/quote] Yes. Generic 2500 tag out vanilla is nice, but not essentially the best. A second form of removal besides destruction is what these guys needed and a Retiari based effect for the field seemed quite nice. [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348159982' post='6028753'] Removal not unlike Bestiari's but generic and banishing. Half as disruptive as Gyzarus, but also ignores Starlight which is being played more and more. [/quote] This was the point. "Another" form of giving them power so that they can compete against competitive decks without themselves being "as" broken and promastus abides by that. [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348159982' post='6028753'] Then generic tagging is also ridiculous. You could just derp and get Darius then something else then make him again. Looping is, by my books, not good for the game. Inzektor-not-good for the game. [/quote] Of course inzektors are not good for the game. Why do you think they got hit? (Well they also got hit for other reasons). Also, the card makes predictability plays less predictable as you can derp Darius plays into Gyzarus OR Promastus. Not only that, but Glad Beasts don't "loop" as efficiently as Inzektors did, and mainly are FAR slower that those decks. This card doesn't change their speed (though Prodegius does slightly make them faster) but rather changes their battle tactics which in my book IS balanced. Gyzarus - Pros[list] [*]Strong in terms of stats [*]More powerful base effect [*]Reaps more benefits [/list] Gyzarus - Cons[list] [*]More susceptible to Starlight Road [*]Depends on Bestiari [/list] Promastus - Pros[list] [*]Moderately strong in terms of stats [*]Safe effect [*]Generic and can be tagged out at any time. [/list] Promastus - Cons[list] [*]Weaker base effect. [*]Reaps less benefits so it usually tends to be a -1 to -/+0 [/list] [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348159982' post='6028753'] The other guy, he IS what Glads need. A way to search Chariot that isn't suckish Samnite. [/quote] Yeah. He's definitely a keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted September 20, 2012 Report Share Posted September 20, 2012 [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1348161338' post='6028758'] Gyzarus - Pros[list] [*]Strong in terms of stats [*]More powerful base effect [*]Reaps more benefits [/list] Gyzarus - Cons[list] [*]More susceptible to Starlight Road [*]Depends on Bestiari [/list] Promastus - Pros[list] [*]Moderately strong in terms of stats [*]Safe effect [*]Generic and can be tagged out at any time. [/list] Promastus - Cons[list] [*]Weaker base effect. [*]Reaps less benefits so it usually tends to be a -1 to -/+0 [/list] [/quote] The fact that he's on even grounds with Gyzarus doesn't speak well of his design- given Gyzarus's is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Gyzarus vs. DAD/JD/...wait that's not fair. Gyzarus vs. BRD/Arcanite Magician/Celestia, Lightsworn Angel/Delta Crow - A.R. / E-HERO A. Zero/GK Descendant/Gungir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier/Junk Destroyer/to some extent Machina Fortress/Master Hyperion/Masked HERO Acid/to some extent Scrap Dragon/XX-Saber Hyunlei....and several others also have similar destruction effects and near all of them have counters to. Now I think I'ma be extremely linear with this statement but, "If Gyzarus is such bad design, then are the cards that can counter said bad designed cards bad design in themselves?" Is Starlight Road bad design? Is Effect Veiler bad design? LOL, is LaDD bad design? Likely not. And people will complain that they are "because they win games". Even in a format where everything is said and done "correctly" there will still be dispute about cards. But let's go with the general consensus: Chance Furlong - I am now more lenient that Promastus is balanced Darkplant - Suggested my old version of Promastus was balanced and useful, but a relatively weak stat wise. I upped it's Stats by 400 ATK+ and 100 DEF- and then removed the specific clause of not being able to tag out into "Prodegius". newhat - Useful, harder to block, generic, "not as strong as Gyzarus". Asked about the not being able to tag out into "Prodegius", so further support to remove said clause. Promastus is not on equal grounds to Gyzarus since it's been said before that Gyzarus is "the 100% better option", though I digress since it's about 68-83% for me the better option. All Promastus does is again, give Glads an option to face competitive decks by attacking their key points, but doesn't make them as broken because he's being used as a "counter measure" and not a complete derp card that dominates the entire game like BLS, JD, DAD, Inzektor Hornet/Centipede, Rescue Rabbit, and Grapha tend to do. So with that said, I think I'm keeping the card as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1348251265' post='6029278'] several others also have similar destruction effects and near all of them have counters to. [/quote] This way of thinking is a problem. The fact that a card can be countered does [i]not[/i] make up for the fact that they are bad card design. The fact that Starlight Road exists is not an excuse for Gyzarus being broken. Gyzarus rewards you for having Bestiari out. [i]This rewards you for having [u]anything[/u] out.[/i] [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1348251265' post='6029278'] not a complete derp card that dominates the entire game like BLS- [/quote] While most of your argument is sound... [i]this[/i] is an inconsistency. This is, effect wise, half of BLS. He's even more dangerous in a way, as he doesn't afraid of backrow. All in all: this is the power creep Glads would need- but it's still power creep, and you need to admit that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348259713' post='6029334'] This way of thinking is a problem. The fact that a card can be countered does [i]not[/i] make up for the fact that they are bad card design. The fact that Starlight Road exists is not an excuse for Gyzarus being broken. Gyzarus rewards you for having Bestiari out. [/quote] I did say it was Linear thinking didn't I? [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348259713' post='6029334'] [i]This rewards you for having [u]anything[/u] out.[/i] [/quote] 2+ Glads on the field is the requirement and even then people recognize the severity of that. Are you saying this isn't going to be a target for responce Bottomless/Warning/Chain and such? [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348259713' post='6029334'] While most of your argument is sound... [i]this[/i] is an inconsistency. This is, effect wise, half of BLS. He's even more dangerous in a way, as he doesn't afraid of backrow. [/quote] I think I answered the statement with the above statement. [quote name='Ｍｕｇｅｎｄｒａｍｏｎ' timestamp='1348259713' post='6029334'] All in all: this is the power creep Glads would need- but it's still power creep, and you need to admit that much. [/quote] I admit this. Guilty as charged. Take me away! *gets handcuffed and escorted to a nice facility with people in white coats* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spenсe Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Didn't even see this thread when I made mine. Lol I guess great minds think alike. Anyway, onto the cards: The first card is decent, definitely a better option over Essedarii. Its effect seems a bit simple, but banishing cards on the field is something glads do need. The 2nd one is interesting at the very least. It can be used to get a chariot or proving ground, which is nice. Although its a bit slow since you can't use the card the turn you activate, also has a limited range of possible addition. But still, deck thinning is great. A solid card. Edit: also, I'd like to note that I don't think these cards are OP at all. Glads are not exactly a tier 1 deck, so any support is welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 [quote name='Spenсe' timestamp='1348261153' post='6029340'] Didn't even see this thread when I made mine. Lol I guess great minds think alike. Anyway, onto the cards: The first card is decent, definitely a better option over Essedarii. Its effect seems a bit simple, but banishing cards on the field is something glads do need. The 2nd one is interesting at the very least. It can be used to get a chariot or proving ground, which is nice. Although its a bit slow since you can't use the card the turn you activate, also has a limited range of possible addition. But still, deck thinning is great. A solid card. Edit: also, I'd like to note that I don't think these cards are OP at all. Glads are not exactly a tier 1 deck, so any support is welcomed. [/quote] Thanks for the comment, but I would indeed like to clarify a few points you made. Deck Thin - It increases the chances of you getting the cards you want to get from the Deck. This can slowly lead to an "advantage" game which is something to be weary about. Prodegius "looks" slow, but it isn't because of the fact that the main target is going to be "Gladiator Beast War Chariot", and you can still SET the card which makes for potential set up. Simple Effects - Can be devastating. Simple 1 for 1 destruction "looks balanced" but it can be corrupted depending on how the destruction is played which can make either the combo broken or balanced. It's a like walking on a tightrope. Tiers - Support for any given archtype/monster/etc can still remove the "flux" of the meta which means 1 card can change said archtype/monster/etc from tier 5 to tier 0 which is a significant boost in their play-ability and how much they will be seen in the game format. ATM - Gladiators are around tier 2.5-2 because they are slow to set up and/or are just too vulnerable to current meta decks (Wind-Ups/Dark World/Chaos Dragon/Chaos/Inzektors/etc), so I made these cards so that they could be around tier 1.5-1 because they would be "faster" and have more "reliable" battle options (this is why admitted to power creep). Still thank you for commenting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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