Trash King: Synchro Support

[Sora1499]

A little card I made to support my favorite type of monster: synchro monsters.

[URL=http://yugico.com/user/31887-sora1299/card/30847-Etc_/151866-Trash_King][IMG]http://yugico.com/customcard/151866.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

*Card Rulings:
1. If this card is used as a synchro material monster, then it will miss the timing and be unable to revive itself from the graveyard.

[newhat]

[color=#D3D3D3][size=1]no it won't[/size][/color]
[size=1][size=4]Being able to swap this for any Tuner is OK, not good or bad. Being able to bring this card out any time you Synchro Summon is great for combos that use [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Road_Warrior"]Road Warrior[/url]. Since it can activate from the hand, KONAMI would say you can't use more than one of these off each Synchro Summon, so you can't loop it with Leviair somehow. It is similar to, and works well with, Level Eater.[/size][/size]

[size=1][size=4]I can't think of any way to abuse it. It's fine.[/size][/size]

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1355544148' post='6093552']
A little card I made to support my favorite type of monster: synchro monsters.

[spoiler=Card Image]
[url="http://yugico.com/user/31887-sora1299/card/30847-Etc_/151866-Trash_King"][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/151866.jpg[/img][/url] [/spoiler]

*Card Rulings:
1. If this card is used as a synchro material monster, then it will miss the timing and be unable to revive itself from the graveyard.
[/quote]

You know this is not worded to have any "timing' in the first place, so that ruling you placed isn't even mechanically correct. You wrote it as a Built-In Summon, a condition, not an effect; so it wouldn't even go on chain to have a timing. IF a chain happens due to effects going off due to the Synchro Summon (or effect of the Summoned monster), it just "misses" because of an effect being before it, if none goes off, it still happens. BTW-- This also means your last line is incorrect because the first line is not an effect. Matching the current wording, it would have to be erased and you would need to add this line immediately after the first line: [color=#ff0000][i]"You can only Summon a "Trash King" this way once per turn."[/i][/color] [i](yes, [b][u]"a Trash King"[/u][/b] in this way is different from [u][b]"this card"[/b][/u] because you are stating [u]the name[/u] and thus any card that has [u]that name[/u] and [u]is summoned by that method[/u].)[/i]


Now, if you had said: "When a Synchro Monster is Synchro Summoned: You can Special Summon this card from your hand or Graveyard.", that is an effect, not Summoning Conditions. Also, the last line would then make more sense.

Also
-- A: you shouldn't need to explain Miss Timing in a ruling HERE (most people should be at least knowledgeable enough on the "When"/"Can" setup and we've been discussing it on the forums for a while now
-- and B: You do know that this card doesn't miss timing anyway IF the Summon is last, before this goes off. So if you use it for Summoning Material, it won't miss timing unless another [u][b]OPPONENT'S[/b][/u] effect goes off in response (thus chain) to the Summon (because[b], [/b]your opponent has right of response after your action, so unless your opponent responds to this, this card will never miss timing if you mean to use it so long as you do it in proper order and that means you will respond to your own summoning with this card.

To be clear:

Chain with [u]Current[/u] Wording:

- A: Send this card and Material to GY
- B: Synchro Summon Synchro Monster
[i]--- (if opponent does not response with chain creating effects [b]and[/b] the Synchro Monster has no effects that trigger upon summon, proceed to [/i][i]Ca, otherwise proceed to Cb)[/i]
- Ca: [b](Only immediately after B )[/b] Summon Trash King from GY
- Cb: Action is responded to with an effect (your or opponent) - OR- Summoned Synchro Monster activates an effect of itself that triggers upon its own summoning. Chain is created/continued.
- D: You choose whether or not to response. If you choose to response, return to Cb, otherwise, proceed to E.
- E: Chain resolves. "Trash King" is not summoned



Chain with [u][b]INTENDED[/b][/u] Wording:

- A: Send this card and Material to GY
- B: Synchro Summon Synchro Monster
[i]--- (if opponent does not response with chain creating effects [b]and[/b] the Synchro Monster has no effects that trigger upon summon, proceed to [/i][i]Ca, otherwise proceed to Cb)[/i]
- Ca: [b](Only immediately after B )[/b] Summon Trash King from GY
- Cb: Action is responded to with an effect (your or opponent) - OR- Summoned Synchro Monster activates an effect of itself that triggers upon its own summoning. Chain is created/continued. "Trash King" [u]now[/u] [b]cannot be Summoned[/b] from GY because [u]the timing has been missed[/u].
- D: You choose whether or not to response. If you choose to response, return to Cb, otherwise, proceed to E.
- E: Chain resolves.


Beyond fixing it to do what you intended (as assumed from your "ruling") there's not really anything to say about the card itself, it becomes standard fare and the Tuner returning helps to built up further bigger Synchros or swarm the field faster.



I will however ask my judge friend whether or not it would still happen in the case of "Current Wording" and just trigger after the chain is done.

[newhat]

[quote&name="Shinobi Phoenix"]You do know that this card doesn't miss timing anyway IF the Summon is last, before this goes off. So if you use it for Summoning Material, it won't miss timing unless another [u][b]OPPONENT'S[/b][/u] effect goes off in response (thus chain) to the Summon (because[b], [/b]your opponent has right of response after your action, so unless your opponent responds to this, this card will never miss timing if you mean to use it so long as you do it in proper order and that means you will respond to your own summoning with this card.[/quote]

The Turn Player has right of response after an action. The opponent has right of response after an [font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][color=#000000]activation[/color][/font]. Though I'm not sure you can use this effect in chain to Bottomless if you pass the right of response to your opponent.

[Sora1499]

I'm gonna bump this sucker

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1355630445' post='6094582']
The Turn Player has right of response after an action. The opponent has right of response after an [font=tahoma,geneva,sans-serif][color=#000000]activation[/color][/font]. Though I'm not sure you can use this effect in chain to Bottomless if you pass the right of response to your opponent.
[/quote]

No he (Turn Player) doesn't, not if you're talking about Priority, which was [b](THANKFULLY)[/b] rescinded in TCG last year... FINALLY. That crap needed to stop a long time ago and OCG had been rid of it forever. It's one of the biggest reason that cards like CED1 got to be such a problem. Bottomless got a power boost because of the ridding of Priority.


And you said "after an activation", except I think you might just be using the wrong words because the last I checked, a Summon was not an activation, but they can still respond to it.

And I never said it would be chained to something like a Bottomless, because it looks to activate (or apply in the case of Built-In) after the Summon resolves. It still would have missed the window in that case. I was only pointing out that this card would still summon itself even if used as a Synchro Material so long as the Summon wasn't responded to by an opponent's effect. SURE, if your opponent doesn't response you can activate something else, but why would you if you wanted to Summon Trash King, since it would need to go next and you could respond to that (if opponent passes again) with another effect in response.

[u]Anyway, back still on the card itself:[/u]
What I'm trying to get an answer to from my friend is whether or not it would still apply AFTER the chain is complete due to being an Built-In Summon - which means it never should go on chain either as Summons (not effects that Summon) are usually like continuous effects that just look for conditions to be right to apply themselves ([b]though the card should be changed into an actual Activated Effect to fit with the ruling that is being applied to it[/b]). I wanted to say no, but I also kept trying to remember the scenario where I think it could have anyway, so I am waiting for my friend to write me back on Facebook with his logic.