[Chance's Singles] A new Staple, that's really interesting...hopefully balanced.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

[center][img]http://yugico.com/customcard/168870.jpg[/img][/center]
[center][b]Lore:[/b][/center]
[center]2 Monsters with the same Type or Attribute
Cannot be used as a Fusion Material Monster. Must be Fusion Summoned by sending 1 face-up monster you control and 1 monster your opponent controls of the same Type or Attribute and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. Cannot be used for the Summon of a monster during the turn it is Fusion Summoned. Once per turn: If this card would leave the field; banish 1 of the Fusion Material Monsters used to Fusion Summon this card from either player's Graveyard instead. Each player can only Fusion Summon 1 "Gladovires Draco" per duel.[/center]


[center]I wanted to make something Generic...that could potentially be used in any Deck, but still meet some form of restriction. And so I made this. It's a Level 9 Fusion making him a bit awkward. It's a Dragon, and does not require Polymerization, and it's own built in Summon and protection is basically all it has to offer. The removal of 1 opponent's monster for it's Summon makes it...a bit powerful, and as such I decreased it's ATK boost a ton. It also can't be used for the Summon of a monster during the turn it's Summoned...making it slower to use for Synchros (Level eater shennanigans) and Xyzs.[/center]

[center]So....is it balanced?[/center]

[Sora1499]

No, it's a bad idea. "Oh crap, he's going to drago me next turn" would start to become a thing. I don't see why your opponent should be punished for playing a similar deck as you. Overall, I just don't like the concept.

[Aerion Brightflame]

So... It's basically intended to be a Mirror Match combo card?

The concept is interesting, and aside from just being annoying, the card serves next to no purpose after getting summoned if I'm not mistaken?

I don't think its overpowered, given other cards can do this and don't require you to commit at the same time, but... The issue is actually wanting to use it. Decks are normally so tight on extra deck space, that this doesn't help brilliantly. Given it does practically nothing for you after the summon except potentially banishing a boss monster from the grave.

As for your concerns about Synchro and Xyz... There are hardly any Rank 9's, and barely any other Level 9's to use. And Level Eater concerns is a very very odd thing to think... If you ere really bothered by that, making it level 1 instead.

Unless this is sleep talking, or I've become very rusty at this game, it seems fine to me. If a tad on the weak side.

[Sora1499]

^above
No, it's sacky. It's an arbitrary +1 for which you can use leftover monsters and take away your opponent's boss. For no commitment whatsoever. And I'd GLADLY side this in game 2 if it allows me to instantaneously dispose of anything I like and clear the field for a direct attack. The design is really shaky and quite dangerous.

It transforms a mirror match into a twisted mind game in which the guy who committed to his play is being punished for having advantage and doing stuff right. Blegh.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[center][quote name='Chance T-Bone Furlong' timestamp='1358283156' post='6121874'][/center]
[center][b]Lore:[/b][/center]
[center]2 Monsters with the same Type or Attribute
Cannot be used as a Fusion Material Monster. Must be Fusion Summoned by sending 1 face-up monster you control and 1 monster your opponent controls of the same Type or Attribute and cannot be Special Summoned by other ways. Cannot be used for the Summon of a monster during the turn it is Fusion Summoned. Once per turn: If this card would leave the field; banish 1 of the Fusion Material Monsters used to Fusion Summon this card from either player's Graveyard instead. Each player can only Fusion Summon 1 "Gladovires Draco" per duel.[/center]


[center]I wanted to make something Generic...that could potentially be used in any Deck, but still meet some form of restriction. And so I made this. It's a Level 9 Fusion making him a bit awkward. It's a Dragon, and does not require Polymerization, and it's own built in Summon and protection is basically all it has to offer. The removal of 1 opponent's monster for it's Summon makes it...a bit powerful, and as such I decreased it's ATK boost a ton. It also can't be used for the Summon of a monster during the turn it's Summoned...making it slower to use for Synchros (Level eater shennanigans) and Xyzs.[/center]
[center]So....is it balanced?[/center]
[/quote]

I don't find it to be any different from Chimeratech Fortress Dragon with DNA Surgery in your Deck (which is probably why Sora hates it).

So it's Fortress Dragon for Mirror Match (or again, keeping a DNA-ish card around). Any card in your Deck that can change Types/Attribute or change its own would give you a "bomb" waiting. That said, it's basically just a restricted Lava Golem/Dark End Dragon that sits in waiting in your Extra Deck that you can only use ONCE. If you are playing Mirror Match or you are prepared a little, it's not like you get a lot of payoff for this card, just one quick death and two protections. It's really no different than most Magic cards in the real game.


There's no extra damage and there are the very weak stats, so you'll be killing your resources or using them quite a bit to use this card for a death strike. All of that said, I think the card is fine. Like I said, it's a Magic Card in your Extra Deck that says "kill two monsters, summon a 1000/1000 token, you can protect this token twice, you can only use this Magic card once ever."

[Sora1499]

@Shinobi
Comparing this card to lava golem is awful. It requires you to use up hand advantage and provides your opponent with a 3k beater.

Comparing this card to DED is awful: DED requires a -1 to bring out, then +1s, so he's an overall +0.

Comparing this card to fortress is absolutely correct: it's sacky and arbitrary. But at least you have to run a bad card to summon it. This works stupidly well with any given deck.

Soul taker, etc. runs the risk of being inconsistent and using up deck space.

For this, I'd glady give up my leftover monster if I can kill my opponent's big one. It turns anything I normal summon into an exiled force that survives. :/

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1358296948' post='6122153']
@Shinobi
Comparing this card to lava golem is awful. It requires you to use up hand advantage and provides your opponent with a 3k beater.

Comparing this card to DED is awful: DED requires a -1 to bring out, then +1s, so he's an overall +0.

Comparing this card to fortress is absolutely correct: it's sacky and arbitrary. But at least you have to run a bad card to summon it. This works stupidly well with any given deck.

Soul taker, etc. runs the risk of being inconsistent and using up deck space.

For this, I'd glady give up my leftover monster if I can kill my opponent's big one. It turns anything I normal summon into an exiled force that survives. :/
[/quote]

THE EFFECT of Lava Golem and Dark End Dragon is what I am referring to. Not the cards themselves. It's Lava Golem that it is a monster made to eat other monsters and then just sit there. It's DED in that it is "erasing" monsters (my term for the "sent monsters directly to the GY" effect). I call DED and other cards like it "Erasers" because that was the name of the effect when DED used it in the manga. "Erase" could have been a new keyword for that effect and I was going to suggest it to Tewart along with another term change (your control, your side of the field into "your base" as a very simple two word that means all of that), but I'm assuming they really don't want to have to reprint more cards right now (not for my other name change). He would like "erase" though. Anyway, that was off-topic.


It was really just an attempt it seems to make a "Super-Polymetrization" monster (as that is exactly what people use that for, kill opponent monsters and get one of your own from your Extra Deck).


Some people quite like Chimeratech, just because you have a personal vendetta against Fortress Dragon doesn't make the card bad or even overpowered. It's dull to the rest of us. It's a ONE-TIME DED that gives you a 1000/1000 token for the cost of giving up a monster that matches some stats on it. You really have only attacked it, you haven't exactly given any suggestions on what to do to help if it you think it's so bad. You already can only use it ONCE EVER.


And all that so-called "hand advantage" stuff is arbitrary in of itself. Advantage is by tactic and usage and whether it fits in with ones own tactic as fitting of the situation at hand. So if you use this at the right time, doesn't make it overpowered, just means you knew when best to use it to suit your purposes. It's good for the person that needs it, [b]so unless you have a constructive change to suggest[/b], [u]you really have no base to argument from as the only point you've given seems to be that you personally dislike it and wish to complain about it[/u].

What should he change and make a strong case for why other than "Nope, sir, I don't like it". Complaining to the people who do like it or are really just indifferent to it is just post-buffing. I could see if it was the reverse and people hated it and you were defending it. Make a constructive case against it (which means suggesting changes, not complaining about it and not just nerfing it either). Most of us find it to be weak and thus stopped caring after giving our two-cents (myself included).

[Sora1499]

I'd give suggestions, but they'd only end up being "Cut out the killing the opponent's monster too". And you can't just pick and choose which aspects of a card to compare:

"Horus level 8 is good because it negates all of your opponents spells!"

Case in point.

[Synchronized]

Wait, did Sora just say Cyber Dragon is a bad card? What the hell?

The card is fine as-is. Sure, the punishing the opponent for playing a Deck is almost pushing it, but it's extremely weak and both players could run it so it's not like you have some kind of advantage inherently by running it in your Extra Deck.

It's as good (balance-wise) as a card of its caliber is going to get.

[Shinobi Phoenix]

[quote name='Archlord Sora' timestamp='1358298887' post='6122192']
I'd give suggestions, but they'd only end up being "Cut out the killing the opponent's monster too". And you can't just pick and choose which aspects of a card to compare:

"Horus level 8 is good because it negates all of your opponents spells!"

Case in point.
[/quote]

Case in point [b]NOT[/b] made.

A: I suppose you choose your electronics and equipment by comparing irrelevant details that don't apply between them too? No, you relate and compare various facets of their beings to assess value as toward a desired logical end. Irrelevant details are strawmen in such things.

B: You're the one hung up on comparing anything. Truthfully they aren't comparable without nitpicking. Lava Golem is never going to be used the same way as this card, even if they have one (or two) similar effects. This isn't Gale of the Hurricane vs Armored Bee and those get judged just as much by their own merits as well. No one is saying "A' is bad but 'B' with the same effect is good because these things are different between them" except you. We're judging it [b]against its own merits[/b] according to what it can do.


C: Punishing them for using a deck? What do you think Anti-Meta is? I suppose you are against using Macro Cosmos because it punishes 70% of the currently (and many classic) popular decks out there for being Graveyard focused (and with it Imperial Iron Wall punishes for banishing)? Or maybe you hate Skill Drain and cards like it because they punish you for using Monsters with Effects. That's a complete straw man argument there.



The card is absolutely fine with no real reason to change it that we've given him. To be truthful, it's boring and the only interesting thing about it is watching you try to destroy it. I'm sure most of us wouldn't have given it a second thought, let alone another comment except for you railing against it for some reason. I know I wouldn't have.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

O_o oh boy, this is quite the heated argument.

@Sora - Cydra isn't bad. It's a good Level 5 2100 beater that's LIGHT and Machine. It's still a good card by itself and "can" grant access to Fortress against Machine Decks.

@Shinobi - Lava Golem and DED do similar things...except in a different way. Golem removes both monsters to play itself from your hand, and usually when that happens it's to burn your opponent for game. It's stats almost take no input anymore, except if you can pull off Rank 8s or if you can do something with Level manipulation or some other form of benefit such as Tributing it, using it as a cost, etc. DED is as been said by Sora, a -1 that +1 or more, usually just a +1 the same turn giving you a +0 with more +s the longer it stays on the field, but it also fuels it's own destruction making it balanced. Admit-tingly this is a +1, with nothing more than that to offer

@Barty - Junk Variants run: Insects, Warriors, Plants, Dragons, Beast, Spellcasters, Fiends, Machines....that's quite a few targets. Add LIGHT, DARK, WIND, EARTH and occasionally FIRE, and you have several targets to choose from. Granted that Doppel is no longer the best deck, but it's still with it's own pros and cons and that's why I saw it as a problem.

@Zero - Pretty much. Super Poly is basically bad design with the phrase "Spells, Traps, and card effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation", so I wanted to do something similar to it...BUT CAN STILL be countered by something such as Solemn Warning.