Holy Spirit? What is it?

[Willieh]

Meh I'm starting to believe there is a god again. It's just that he hates me.

 

I believe that the bible would interpret hell as living without belief. Which really it is in a way. Lol my whole life has sucked balls hard and I never believed in him.

 

I'll probably end up converting into a christian who doesn't go to church; but just believes in god to have a stab at an attempt of making my life better :|.

 

Why? Can't handle the reality of reality? Does meaninglessness really hurt?

 

Really?

 

:(

Lol I can handle reality. Meaninglessness doesn't hurt either. It's the fact that I'm becoming suicidal (again) and it's really pissing me off. More than anything I'm becoming anti-social and passive agressive. Hopefully if I did convert it would maybe give me a reason to live. I dont really know.

 

I'm just sick of being this little ball of hate with nothing good to say about anything I suppose.

[Silas Angel]

heres a question that no one can seem to answer: What started the Big Bang?

 

The universe never began.

 

It has always been there' date=' it will always be there.

[/quote']

 

then whats so hard with believing that God has always been?

[Cyber Altair]

heres a question that no one can seem to answer: What started the Big Bang?

 

The universe never began.

 

It has always been there' date=' it will always be there.

[/quote']

 

then whats so hard with believing that God has always been?

 

because he never existed. I so far haven't gotten 1 single proof to believe in God, that's why i gave up on Islam and Christianity is just a wider scale joke.

[Static]

heres a question that no one can seem to answer: What started the Big Bang?

 

The universe never began.

 

It has always been there' date=' it will always be there.

[/quote']

 

then whats so hard with believing that God has always been?

 

because he never existed. I so far haven't gotten 1 single proof to believe in God, that's why i gave up on Islam and Christianity is just a wider scale joke.

 

Christianity is the biggest joke, the one that has caused the most unjust death. Islam is petty in death, barely any prior to 2001, and not much even today compared to the Roman Catholic Church, Christopher Colombus, The Slave Trade/Opium Wars (for those two, it was justification).

 

There's a reason why a Jew is forgiven for praying in a mosque, but not for praying in a church. The Christians pray to a different god than the Jews and Muslims, one that will come down to earth and mate with a human, and create something more than a prophet, a bloodline, a human element, to god himself.

 

Bleh.

[Uchiha]

I don't know for sure but all this should/shouldn't have been posted, because no one has the answer.

[Willieh]

My thoughts on this whole situation are:

 

Don't insult someone for believing in god. Our brain does make god exist; for us. When someone tells you they believe in god, they are telling you that god exists. This is actually a true statement. It does exist to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that it exists to you; and it doesn't have to. Debate over God is a pointless subject; no one can be right and no one can be wrong. We can only think that we are right and wrong. Until God interjects this conversation, one might say that there is no god. But until someone can explain how the universe even is, then someone might say there is a god. Either way no one will know until they are dead. Amazingly we have no structural proof of god existing or not existing. Logically I consider god to be unexplainable. I dont not believe in him. In a since he does exist to me; it's just that there isn't necessarily any proof of him existing.

 

The moral of my words is this; whatever you think exists does exist to you. If I think Sasquatch does exist, that doesn't mean he has to exist for you. He still exists for me. I dont see the point in trying to ruin it for everyone else; if someone does believe in god you are going to have to put up one helluva fight to make them not believe. Because in factuality God is an existing being/spirit; to them.

[Static]

My thoughts on this whole situation are:

 

Don't insult someone for believing in god. Our brain does make god exist; for us. When someone tells you they believe in god' date=' they are telling you that god exists. This is actually a true statement. It does exist to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that it exists to you; and it doesn't have to. Debate over God is a pointless subject; no one can be right and no one can be wrong. We can only think that we are right and wrong. Until God interjects this conversation, one might say that there is no god. But until someone can explain how the universe even is, then someone might say there is a god. Either way no one will know until they are dead. Amazingly we have no structural proof of god existing or not existing. Logically I consider god to be unexplainable. I dont not believe in him. In a since he does exist to me; it's just that there isn't necessarily any proof of him existing.

 

The moral of my words is this; whatever you think exists does exist to you. If I think Sasquatch does exist, that doesn't mean he has to exist for you. He still exists for me. I dont see the point in trying to ruin it for everyone else; if someone does believe in god you are going to have to put up one helluva fight to make them not believe. Because in factuality God is an existing being/spirit; to them.

[/quote']

 

I met Sasquatch. She was just like a normal person.

 

Whose to say that I cannot tell someone they are wrong if I disagree? If I have more power than them, I am their leader, should they not listen? Are they greater than their society?

[Willieh]

My thoughts on this whole situation are:

 

Don't insult someone for believing in god. Our brain does make god exist; for us. When someone tells you they believe in god' date=' they are telling you that god exists. This is actually a true statement. It does exist to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that it exists to you; and it doesn't have to. Debate over God is a pointless subject; no one can be right and no one can be wrong. We can only think that we are right and wrong. Until God interjects this conversation, one might say that there is no god. But until someone can explain how the universe even is, then someone might say there is a god. Either way no one will know until they are dead. Amazingly we have no structural proof of god existing or not existing. Logically I consider god to be unexplainable. I dont not believe in him. In a since he does exist to me; it's just that there isn't necessarily any proof of him existing.

 

The moral of my words is this; whatever you think exists does exist to you. If I think Sasquatch does exist, that doesn't mean he has to exist for you. He still exists for me. I dont see the point in trying to ruin it for everyone else; if someone does believe in god you are going to have to put up one helluva fight to make them not believe. Because in factuality God is an existing being/spirit; to them.

[/quote']

 

I met Sasquatch. She was just like a normal person.

 

Whose to say that I cannot tell someone they are wrong if I disagree? If I have more power than them, I am their leader, should they not listen? Are they greater than their society?

 

I'm not exactly sure how that ties into the conversation :?...

 

I didn't tell you that you can't tell someone they are wrong if you disagree. However, it is flawed for either side to oppose each other in this particular argument. Neither of you can prove your side of the story to be true; because neither of you know for sure.

 

What I more or less said was this: it's pointless to debate something that can't be proven valid or invalid. When discussing politics you can decipher what is valid and what isn't. When discussing religion you can't; it's impossible.

 

It would be kind of odd to say that you've never thought of the possibility that you might end up in a burning lake one day for not believing in god. But it's also ignorant to say that they should believe in god for questioning lack of proof.

[Cyber Altair]

We all are humans, just because we don't believe and believe doesn't mean were different and we see things from a different point of view. as for the suicidal feeling it's only normal for use humans to feel we are strong and that we are in control with our life, that we can end it all if we want, when we want. Your in denial, snap out.

 

heres a question that no one can seem to answer: What started the Big Bang?

 

The universe never began.

 

It has always been there' date=' it will always be there.

[/quote']

 

then whats so hard with believing that God has always been?

 

because he never existed. I so far haven't gotten 1 single proof to believe in God, that's why i gave up on Islam and Christianity is just a wider scale joke.

 

Christianity is the biggest joke, the one that has caused the most unjust death. Islam is petty in death, barely any prior to 2001, and not much even today compared to the Roman Catholic Church, Christopher Colombus, The Slave Trade/Opium Wars (for those two, it was justification).

 

There's a reason why a Jew is forgiven for praying in a mosque, but not for praying in a church. The Christians pray to a different god than the Jews and Muslims, one that will come down to earth and mate with a human, and create something more than a prophet, a bloodline, a human element, to god himself.

 

Bleh.

 

Win.

[Chidori]

heres a question that no one can seem to answer: What started the Big Bang?

 

The big bang cat be proven!

[Silas Angel]

honestly, the problem that we as men have is that when the God of the Old Testament issued the deaths of over thousands, we shudder and say "INJUSTICE!!"

 

though we dont understand what justice is. We live only because God gives us mercy and grace in every breath. The reason why it was not injustice is because it was justice.

 

If we as men break mens laws, we are punished. If we break Gods laws, we are still yet punished. The reason why the Old Testament God issued the deaths of many many of the time was because He was tired of giving grace to those who didnt glorify Him in that grace.

 

They deserved the judgment of their deaths, and far more than what they got. They broke the one universal law, "We were created in the image of God". That issued the order to live as God would, and when we dont we yell to all creation, "This is what God is like! God lies, God commits injustice!" We broke the law that should bind us to God, and for that we deserve judgment and death, but instead He gives us grace for the time. Eventually, the grace will be revoked, and death will come. And when it gets here, we shudder and cry out "INJUSTICE" because all we ever got was so much grace that we didnt recognize it

[Tefached]

there may be a god, who really cares.

 

but over all

we Did evolve, we have proof

 

there is No Proof that god created us, that jesus exist, and over all

 

religion is pointless.

[HelioSpark]

in my mind, the holy spirit is the same thing as what Hindu's call "Brahman". It is not a god, but it is simply the ultimate force in the universe, the creator. It rules all things.

 

something had to create all that we know today, something has to be responsible for the universe as is. there has to be some reason, some force, behind it.

[Silas Angel]

there may be a god' date=' who really cares.

 

but over all

we [b']Did[/b] evolve, we have proof

 

there is No Proof that god created us, that jesus exist, and over all

 

religion is pointless.

 

have you ever seen an "Evolution Chart"? there are so many holes in it.

and in fact, there are many reports and documents other than the Bible that have recorded Jesus as a real person of the time.

 

 

but this is, in fact, the greatest gamble: If you say there is no hell, you may be right, but if your not then you must face it... that is a gamble with your soul.

 

question: would you ever sell an eye? for 1 mil dollars??

2 eyes for 20 mil?

[Silas Angel]

in my mind' date=' the holy spirit is the same thing as what Hindu's call "Brahman". It is not a god, but it is simply the ultimate force in the universe, the creator. It rules all things.

 

[i']something[/i] had to create all that we know today, something has to be responsible for the universe as is. there has to be some reason, some force, behind it.

 

so you believe in a Creator?

[HelioSpark]

yes, I do.

[Silas Angel]

thats good. Now what kind of power do you think He has?

[silverlighted]

What I find so funny is that the thread is supposed to discuss the Holy Spirit. And after running through the pages, I find all this fluff about God not existing and antireligious sentiments.

 

Technically, all that's really unnecessary. If someone were to engage in a debate on whether or not God is a personal being or an impersonal being, it'd be stupid of me to chime in and say that God does not exist because their discussion is set in a system based on the premise that God does exist. It's akin to explaining to someone that unicorns have horns. And then someone says, hey! unicorns aren't real!

 

Sorry, pet peeve about speaking in general (with alot of topics, like movies and stuff).

On topic....yeah...isn't the use of the pronoun "she" there also sort of used as a personification of wisdom? Then again...one could say the idea of the "Son" is just a personification for logos. Hmmm....there'd have to be more comparisons with the other mentions of the different parts of the Trinity.

[Silas Angel]

What I find so funny is that the thread is supposed to discuss the Holy Spirit. And after running through the pages' date=' I find all this fluff about God not existing and antireligious sentiments.

 

Technically, all that's really unnecessary. If someone were to engage in a debate on whether or not God is a personal being or an impersonal being, it'd be stupid of me to chime in and say that God does not exist because their discussion is set in a system based on the premise that God does exist. It's akin to explaining to someone that unicorns have horns. And then someone says, hey! unicorns aren't real!

 

Sorry, pet peeve about speaking in general (with alot of topics, like movies and stuff).

On topic....yeah...isn't the use of the pronoun "she" there also sort of used as a personification of wisdom? Then again...one could say the idea of the "Son" is just a personification for logos. Hmmm....there'd have to be more comparisons with the other mentions of the different parts of the Trinity.

[/quote']

 

the first part:

 

well, some dont even believe in the Holy Spirit, so if we convince them, then they can say whether or not He is a she or he.

 

second:

 

yes, she is used to refer to Wisdom, but it never says that this Wisdom who cries out is the Holy Spirit. But heres what I find Biblically: Christ, He; Father, He; Holy Spirit?? Must be He. If not then it means that the Holy Spirit is a completely other being and would not be the same Person as Christ or the Father.

[Static]

What I find so funny is that the thread is supposed to discuss the Holy Spirit. And after running through the pages' date=' I find all this fluff about God not existing and antireligious sentiments.

 

Technically, all that's really unnecessary. If someone were to engage in a debate on whether or not God is a personal being or an impersonal being, it'd be stupid of me to chime in and say that God does not exist because their discussion is set in a system based on the premise that God does exist. It's akin to explaining to someone that unicorns have horns. And then someone says, hey! unicorns aren't real!

 

Sorry, pet peeve about speaking in general (with alot of topics, like movies and stuff).

On topic....yeah...isn't the use of the pronoun "she" there also sort of used as a personification of wisdom? Then again...one could say the idea of the "Son" is just a personification for logos. Hmmm....there'd have to be more comparisons with the other mentions of the different parts of the Trinity.

[/quote']

 

the first part:

 

well, some dont even believe in the Holy Spirit, so if we convince them, then they can say whether or not He is a she or he.

 

Not going to happen as long as I'm around. I create more Athiests than the sum of all the hood rats in Detroit.

 

OSH--

 

But yeah, I won't chime in unless another Atheist enters and treason on his beliefs are made.

[silverlighted]

What I find so funny is that the thread is supposed to discuss the Holy Spirit. And after running through the pages' date=' I find all this fluff about God not existing and antireligious sentiments.

 

Technically, all that's really unnecessary. If someone were to engage in a debate on whether or not God is a personal being or an impersonal being, it'd be stupid of me to chime in and say that God does not exist because their discussion is set in a system based on the premise that God does exist. It's akin to explaining to someone that unicorns have horns. And then someone says, hey! unicorns aren't real!

 

Sorry, pet peeve about speaking in general (with alot of topics, like movies and stuff).

On topic....yeah...isn't the use of the pronoun "she" there also sort of used as a personification of wisdom? Then again...one could say the idea of the "Son" is just a personification for logos. Hmmm....there'd have to be more comparisons with the other mentions of the different parts of the Trinity.

[/quote']

 

the first part:

 

well, some dont even believe in the Holy Spirit, so if we convince them, then they can say whether or not He is a she or he.

 

Well, sure. But I'm just saying that it's already offtopic for someone to immediately come in and, instead of conjecturing about the nature of the Holy Spirit, starts arguing that it doesn't exist. That's more in line with a thread that's saying "Does God exist?". Cause saying whether or not something exists in reality doesn't really add more to a concept, I think.

 

second:

 

yes, she is used to refer to Wisdom, but it never says that this Wisdom who cries out is the Holy Spirit. But heres what I find Biblically: Christ, He; Father, He; Holy Spirit?? Must be He. If not then it means that the Holy Spirit is a completely other being and would not be the same Person as Christ or the Father.

 

If your reasoning is that the Holy Spirit should be a "he" because Christ was a "he" and the Father was a "he"......hmm....I think there's some wrong with that line of reasoning. I mean, you could be saying:

Holy Spirit=immaterial, Father=immaterial....Christ must be immaterial! Oh wait, he IS material, well, was.

Actually nvm, I think that Christ isn't interchangeable with the "Son" so my analogy would fail. But my point still stands. Obviously the three are different in some way, otherwise they would be the same thing. They don't necessarily have to keep the same gender.

 

It may not say that Wisdom is the Holy Spirit...but, then what would you explain Wisdom to be? Just some other goddess floating around? But wait, there can't be another goddess in Christianity. (right?)

 

Oh, btw, I'm just really playing devil's advocate. I honestly don't have a strong opinion either way in this matter. I'm just poking out ideas as I see them.

[Silas Angel]

when men speak of a ship they refer to it as a she, Jews did the same thing when personalizing things. Wisdom doesnt really cry out in the streets, but wisdom is always available, thats what that was saying.

 

But yes, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are indeed One, as the fulness of Diety. There are not 3 gods, only One. And this One, in a sence, splits itself for different jobs. And yes, the Holy Spirit is matterial as is the Father.

[2sick4u]

when men speak of a ship they refer to it as a she' date=' Jews did the same thing when personalizing things. Wisdom doesnt really cry out in the streets, but wisdom is always available, thats what that was saying.

 

But yes,[b'] the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are indeed One, as the fulness of Diety[/b]. There are not 3 gods, only One. And this One, in a sence, splits itself for different jobs. And yes, the Holy Spirit is matterial as is the Father.

I see, well, this is were christianity becomes less and less.. sense making. O.o".

The father, the son, and the holy spirit are indeed worshiped separately, although sourced from the one deity, god. The separate worship of those conflicts with the "One god." thing, since Jesus, and if you read some of the bibles stories, the holy spirit, possessed powers of a god like nature. Or, as jesus put it, "I have brought the inner sanctum of heaven's prowess, blessed by thy father, to heals the souls of the believers." Hebrews somewhere. O.o".

Anyway..

If the what you're saying, that the holy spirit, the son and the father are indeed one, it would lead to a different theory.

Since, logically, you should know, The holy spirit sourced from God, as did Jesus. Both of which are essentially "parts of God himself."

However, you're saying that whatever is sourced back to god is actually needed to contribute to the wholeness of God.

Which means, that essentially, based on that, you're saying that humans, a creation apparently sourced from God, are actually of God-like nature.

Which again conflicts with the "one god" rule of religious practices.

Also, to exploit another loop whole, apparently "Jesus" is technically God, being that God needed to save the world from damnation, but couldn't find a "vessel" (Human he uses.) perfect enough to use.

So, God being perfect, set aside some of himself, and sent it into the virgins womb.

However, this kind of failz when Jesus prays to God saying "Father, I pray that it doesn't come to this, but if it must, I shall lay my life down in order to save your children." Famously said when he was in some garden, Moments before his capture, and eventual crucifixion.

Why would God pray to God himself?

It makes no sense, therefore neither does the religion.

Just thought I'd get that out. ;].

2sick~

[silverlighted]

when men speak of a ship they refer to it as a she' date=' Jews did the same thing when personalizing things. Wisdom doesnt really cry out in the streets, but wisdom is always available, thats what that was saying.

[/quote']

 

That quote from proverbs 8 really makes it out as though Wisdom is some sort of living entity, not just a personified concept.

But my question is to you...why should the interpretation differ from the interpretations of any of three persons of the trinity?

 

Here's a random quote I just pulled out in a search engine:

 

The angel answered and said to her' date=' " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

[/quote']

 

Why can't the Holy Spirit merely be a reference to God's power, but rather a distinct person, the the third of the trinity?

[okay, this was a poorly researched point, I'm not too strong on this subject, lol, I'm just trying to get the gist across]

 

And recall:

 

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

 

The "me" in that statement is referring to "Wisdom". Now' date=' seriously, that can't be just some sort of abstract concept as in the normal sense of the word wisdom, is it? The last time we heard mentioning of such terms, it was in reference to blasphemy against God himself. (Actually, looking over these verses, Wisdom is bearing a resemblence with Christ, lol, or maybe I'm just oversimplifying.)

Basically, I'm trying to argue the possibility that there's something more behind this "wisdom".

 

But yes, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are indeed One, as the fulness of Diety. There are not 3 gods, only One. And this One, in a sence, splits itself for different jobs. And yes, the Holy Spirit is matterial as is the Father.

 

I never said otherwise. I was merely saying that the reasoning to call the Holy Spirit a "he" because the other two were referred to as such isn't solid reasoning, I don't think. Because the three persons are distinct from one another; they are different.

And the Father isn't material. The Holy Spirit isn't material. In theory, you can't touch either of them.

[Yogg-Saron]

Ha, no scientific evidence that any of it ever was real or ever is real. Science is golden my friend, and VERY soon religion shall be abolished. Yet we can still believe in false accusations of Holy Spirits and that nonsense.