I THINK...i may have made six samurai playable...

[tonisanoob]

damn right you will >.>

 

your like a more skilled crabhelmet with personality

[Saiyan Knight]

Crabhelmet?

Should I be aware of who that is, so long as I'm here?

[T. Sankara]

You most certainly should. Slip up and he'll steal your thunder.

 

~Xemnas

[Saiyan Knight]

In that case, I'll just have to make sure not to slip up. Haha.

That seems easy enough.

[The Dark One]

deck = 40

(21)

3 grandmaster

2 great shogun

3 zanji

3 yaichi

2 irou

2 spirit

1 card trooper

3 jutte fighter

2 enshi

(9)

2 cosr

3 rota

2 foolish

1 reasoning

1 monster reborn

(10)

3 limit reverse

3 return of the six samurai

1 double edged sword technique

3 soulems

-1 Jutte Fighter

-1 Card Trooper

-2 CoSR

-2 Foolish Burial

-1 Reasoning

-3 Limit Reverse

-3 Return of the SIx Samurai

 

+2 Double Edged Sword Technique

+3 Reckless Greed

+3 Six Samurai United

+1 Heavy Storm

+1 Mystical Space Typhoon

+2 Hand of the Six Samurai

+1 Junk Synchron

 

This should shape your deck up a bit.

 

Also, you got completely owned, and you did deserve it to tell you the truth. Saying Hand is anything but absolutely excellent is laughable. :)

 

Synchro Samurai definitely doesn't go against the grain of a Samurai deck Saiyan Knight. Don't forget that Samurais were originally a more control-styled deck. They don't have to be a complete lucksack powerhand summon-frenzy swarm deck, just the form of the deck that became successful happened to be that way by using Reasoning. Reasoning is gone now, for the most part, and we have to change the way we think about them. Synchros only help out the new game plan. Samurai are still excellent at quickly developing field presence and field control. Stardust is just another way to keep them on the field, while Goyo can put huge amounts of pressure on your opponent that not only helps you bring back a little bit of the swarm element but also forces your opponent to remove it from the field at all costs, often leading to bad trade-offs on their part. That becomes a pretty big deal. Always maintaining a few monsters on the field while continually whittling away at your opponent quickly leaves them absolutely defenseless.

[Saiyan Knight]

deck = 40

(21)

3 grandmaster

2 great shogun

3 zanji

3 yaichi

2 irou

2 spirit

1 card trooper

3 jutte fighter

2 enshi

(9)

2 cosr

3 rota

2 foolish

1 reasoning

1 monster reborn

(10)

3 limit reverse

3 return of the six samurai

1 double edged sword technique

3 soulems

-1 Jutte Fighter

-1 Card Trooper

-2 CoSR

-2 Foolish Burial

-1 Reasoning

-3 Limit Reverse

-3 Return of the SIx Samurai

 

+2 Double Edged Sword Technique

+3 Reckless Greed

+3 Six Samurai United

+1 Heavy Storm

+1 Mystical Space Typhoon

+2 Hand of the Six Samurai

+1 Junk Synchron

 

This should shape your deck up a bit.

 

Also' date=' you got completely owned, and you did deserve it to tell you the truth. Saying Hand is anything but absolutely excellent is laughable. :)

 

Synchro Samurai definitely doesn't go against the grain of a Samurai deck Saiyan Knight. Don't forget that Samurais were originally a more control-styled deck. They don't have to be a complete lucksack powerhand summon-frenzy swarm deck, just the form of the deck that became successful happened to be that way by using Reasoning. Reasoning is gone now, for the most part, and we have to change the way we think about them. Synchros only help out the new game plan. Samurai are still excellent at quickly developing field presence and field control. Stardust is just another way to keep them on the field, while Goyo can put huge amounts of pressure on your opponent that not only helps you bring back a little bit of the swarm element but also forces your opponent to remove it from the field at all costs, often leading to bad trade-offs on their part. That becomes a pretty big deal. Always maintaining a few monsters on the field while continually whittling away at your opponent quickly leaves them absolutely defenseless.

[/quote']

While that is true, it is also true that Synchro summoning is a fast way to deplete your field presence. The goal of the Six Samurai is to have multiple on the field to enable the effects, which Stardust can't do. It gives you a safety net for future-played Six Samurai at the cost of currently played Six Samurai. In the long run, perhaps it could hold some viable usefulness, but at the time it's a step in the wrong direction. Not to mention, you'd more then likely have Synchro Summoned using Junk Synchron and Grandmaster of the Six Samurai, leaving your other smaller Samurai to contend with their cards after the use of Stardust's effect. If you whittle them down and they whittle you down in return, it can quickly become a top-draw game, which the Six Samurai are, regretfully, lackluster in.

 

I do agree with about half of your changes, though I have strong feelings against Reckless Greed and Mystical Space Typhoon, Tuner's aside for the moment. Mystical Space Typhoon less-so, just because I could see it clearing out problem traps like Torrential and Bottomless, but if you're in the market of playing Stardust anyway, there's no point. Yaichi can handle everything else.

 

And Reckless Greed I have never seen work successfully, or, I should say, as successfully as builds without it. It's a delayed -1 that doesn't let you adjust the cards you play that you drew according to their movements. It has reckless in the name for a reason, you know. :P

[The Dark One]

MST is needed against Skill Drain, for starters, though they are hardly top-tier here, at least yet. It's side-deck material at the very worst, I could see it being cut, but I didn't see another card with a greater need of inclusion.

 

The Six Samurai's biggest flaw is their lucksack nature. Not drawing into Grandmaster can be very bad, especially if you also happened to have drawn into a Great Shogun or two. Reckless Greed can help mitigate this problem by quickly moving you towards that Grandmaster that you need. Once you have the necessary cards, you can generally coast for the next couple turns until you start getting a new influx of cards. Also, Six Samurai United can compensate for the loss of draws. Is Reckless needed in Six Samurais? Absolutely not. Does more draw power do them good? Undeniably. If you can find another engine that works better, be my guest.

 

(Actually, Hand Destruction isn't a bad idea in a deck that uses multiple Double Edged Swords Techniques, as it can make it more usable far more quickly. Same for Enishi. Still I would favor Reckless Greed due to the fact that when used in multiples it can either break even or gain you advantage.)

 

Also, Doubled Edging into Zanji and Yaichi, then summoning Jutte and syching with Zanji for a Goyo hardly destroys your field presence. You can still summon that Grandmaster that should be in your hand, in fact, that's the normal way to generate the instant presence needed to activate effects, it hasn't changed.

 

The Yaichi can make up for dieing at the end of the turn by blowing away a S/T, you could summon Great Shogun, whatever. You're basically using two cards, Double Edged and Jutte, to summon a Goyo Guardian, which will be a +2 in relative card advantage every time it successfully destroys a monster, blow away a S/T, and open the way to Summon Grandmaster OR Great Shogun (You could do that before synching up if you don't have a Grandmaster in hand).

 

You can hardly call that losing out on field control.

 

Not to mention the sheer variety of combos. Enishi + Jutte isn't a first turn combo but it certainly is effective. You're basically using Enishi as a Smashing ground, Trading with your opponent's monster, while you also normal summon a 3000 ATK beatstick that destroys defense-positions every turn, a 2500 ATK beeatstick that negates all destruction effects, or a 2700 ATK beatstick that can't be targeted at the cost of 1000 LP per target, which means that it isn't touchable by Book or Controller (which you said yourself were good tech against Synchros) and is also immune to the effects of Dimensional Prison and any number of other cards played these days.

 

Not bad, eh? :)

[Saiyan Knight]

I suppose that is a true enough point, but the fact remains that Skill Drain isn't being used right now. Not in top-tier; I mean in anything. Well, maybe it was in that World's deck with Fusilier, but I never actually saw the deck list.

 

At any rate, even if it was, it's was a rogue deck for a reason: No one used anything like it. Hardly something to prepare for, in my opinion, but I will agree that in some circumstances, or in a meta where it does see play, Mystical Space Typhoon would be a wise choice. However, in a heavily Gladiator and Tele-DAD Synchro, it's not exactly a useful card. I'd much rather be packing a main-deck card against the Shonen-Winners.

 

That could be true and it could be horribly inaccurate depending on the meta, I would say. It would be possible to coast for a few turns against some decks in some areas, but Tele-DAD or Gladiators for example wouldn't let you rest a couple turns while you wait. Instead, it would stomp your balls in and leave you wondering what happened. Not to mention that playing multiple copies is the only way not to lose cards in the long run. Hand Destruction I have thought about though. Most definitely. Back when I messed around with Card of Safe Return the first time. It doesn't work as well as you might think. =/ Not terrible, but not great. As far as a better engine, I'm actually hard at work on it as we speak. I'll let you know when I have something.

 

And in that circumstance where you have a face-down Double-Edged, a Zanji and Yaichi in grave, and a Grandmaster and Jutte in hand, the I suppose it's a good play, but then you're down 1300 also, because Yaichi pops itself at the end. Even though it's a statistically more advantageous play, so is Grandmaster, Yaichi, Six Samurai United, Six Samurai United. In fact, for the same number of cards, netting four more there makes it a +2, and a backrow with Yaichi is a +3, but it certainly doesn't happen very often.

 

You are right though; I wouldn't call it losing field control. I would just call it an inconsistent gain in field control. Then again, that's basically what the Six Samurai are right now anyway, isn't it? Haha.

 

The basis, however, my feelings towards the play involving Jutte Fighter and Enishi isn't against whether or not it does what it's supposed to do, it's whether or not what it's supposed to do will make a difference. The way I see it, as a late game play, it's just a little iffy. I mean, I have used it in games against similar Tele-DAD matches and Gladiator games and so far it's only proven remotely useful against Gladiators in games that were drug on too far.

 

Overall, you, too, make some good points. I contest to retain my skepticism, but I can't deny that your views could, and probably do, hold merit in other meta than what I am used to, which I'm sure are out there.

 

No, not bad at all. =J

[tonisanoob]

wow

 

i have 0 confidence in my yugioh skillz atm >_<

[T. Sankara]

I am NEVER, reading s*** like that again. I'm no TCG or Deckbuilding pro, and all that between Knight and The Dark one, made my brain hurt. NEVER AGAIN!

 

~Xemnas

[Saiyan Knight]

Oh, sorry guys. Haha. =J

[The Dark One]

Lol, I guess I'll apologize too, because we obviously don't want intelligent discussion around here, right? :)

[Saiyan Knight]

What were we thinking? ;P

 

You know, you really seem to know what you're doing. I've got to ask. Do you play in bigger level tournaments?

[The Dark One]

Unfortunately no. In fact, I sadly have yet to even win my locals. :) (My best is 2nd place.)

 

There are a fair number of good players at my locals, so it's not as embarrassing as it could be, but still. Also, the fact that I don't spend particularly large amounts of money on the game factors in. My present real-life deck is a Lightsworn Monarch variant, and I'm pretty much running it because I don't want to go to the effort of getting Judgment Dragons. (Though I am working on Charge.)

 

Most of the work I do here on the boards is theoretical, but I do post the occasional real deck.

[Saiyan Knight]

Unfortunately no. In fact' date=' I sadly have yet to even win my locals. :) (My best is 2nd place.)

 

There are a fair number of good players at my locals, so it's not as embarrassing as it could be, but still. Also, the fact that I don't spend particularly large amounts of money on the game factors in. My present real-life deck is a Lightsworn Monarch variant, and I'm pretty much running it because I don't want to go to the effort of getting Judgment Dragons. (Though I am working on Charge.)

 

Most of the work I do here on the boards is theoretical, but I do post the occasional real deck.

[/quote']

Ah, I see. I was just curious. The deck sounds cool though. I think a friend of mine tried something along the lines of it, but it has Synchros in it and Quillbolt Hedgehog.

 

I feel your pain on Judgment and Charge.

[Tekken Ham]

Jason still has his thread up on Gaia.

 

Big walls of text promote tl;drs, back on topic pl0x.

[The Dark One]

Unfortunately no. In fact' date=' I sadly have yet to even win my locals. :) (My best is 2nd place.)

 

There are a fair number of good players at my locals, so it's not as embarrassing as it could be, but still. Also, the fact that I don't spend particularly large amounts of money on the game factors in. My present real-life deck is a Lightsworn Monarch variant, and I'm pretty much running it because I don't want to go to the effort of getting Judgment Dragons. (Though I am working on Charge.)

 

Most of the work I do here on the boards is theoretical, but I do post the occasional real deck.

[/quote']

Ah, I see. I was just curious. The deck sounds cool though. I think a friend of mine tried something along the lines of it, but it has Synchros in it and Quillbolt Hedgehog.

 

I feel your pain on Judgment and Charge.

 

I have been experimenting a bit with Synchros. Lightwave tuning can fit in nicely, but though Stardust is certainly extremely useful, I'm not sure I can justify the loss of advantage Lightwave Tuning requires. (Minimum of 3 cards, so -2, that's like using Polymerization, except it doesn't work from your hand.)

 

I do plan on testing out a few more seriously dedicated Lightsworn Synchro builds, but I have yet to get around to it. You'll have to tell me more about your friend's deck. Allso, there was that one Synchrosworn deck in Metagame's coverage of Baltimore by Bryon Mines that used Hedgehog. That's not your friend, by any chance?

 

Random Sidenote: You'll find that there's quite an interesting mix of real duelists and theoretical duelists around here. Many of us play real-life, albeit not competitively, and devote most of our attention to new ideas and making online decks on YVD. Some of us, like Crab Helmet, don't even own any cards, and devote their entire energies to creative online dueling, and there are also a fair number of us that play IRL for the most part and just use YCM as a sounding board for ideas they have, etc.

[tonisanoob]

yhea its a whiole "shmorgis board" of duelist :D (tht is how you spell it right?)

[Tekken Ham]

With your spelling ton, I don't know what you're saying most of the time.

[tonisanoob]

xD sorry