Action T4

[HORUS]

Action T4 was Adolf Hitler's program to kill the incurably sick, disabled, or mentally highly unstable persons deemed unworthy of continued sustenance, including the handicapped, insane, mentally retarded, crippled or anyone who could not contribute to the society of the Third Reich.

 

Over 275,000 people were killed under action of the decree, eliminating the need for food, drink, home, and medical or social care for an unnecessary and incapable 275,000 people.

 

The program was cut short after the public rejected the decree, finding it immoral.

 

 

 

Debate: Should Action T4 have been enacted and continued?

 

 

 

EDIT: JoC's discussion about euthanization of the elderly was accepted earlier than this thread and it did not appear until I had submitted this thread, so...yeah. It's very similar to JoC's thread.

[Static]

This + MK Ultra = Success.

 

Think about it.

[Luna Lovegood]

I personnaly think this is a bad idea. Why kill these people, if one day, yo would become one?

[Guest JoshIcy]

I am sorry... I practically vomited in horror of this.

Granted a practical given, due to its intent... Still <_<

[Static]

^^ Human life has no "real" value. You said yourself that it is all just perception, and that is the philosophy I used to follow until I achieved enlightenment, and began to care.

 

Thus, this is ok, those people are different, thus they cannot be equal, and equality, something reflective of the little universal truth that can be logically determined, is more relative than the completely fundamentally and perceptively founded value of life.

 

Different, thus cannot be equal. If you disagree with that, think about Brown v. Board of education. We really aren't equal until we see each other through the same light, the light that refracts the glare of human nature, and allows us to see only the raw existence, that there is only one. One society, one world, one overall unconscious mass of energy that manifests all things, that we are all a part of.

[HORUS]

I personnaly think this is a bad idea. Why kill these people' date=' if one day, yo would become one?

[/quote']

 

Because the people euthanized by the government were a hindrance and could not contribute to society, took up hospital space and resources, human resources, and wasted money.

[「tea.leaf」]

I personnaly think this is a bad idea. Why kill these people' date=' if one day, yo would become one?

[/quote']

 

I will gladly die for the sake of my society, so lone as it's done in a "humane" manner.

 

Yes, I approve of Action T4.

 

We should make a T4 squad! :D

[Willieh]

This is amusingly pathetic and ironic at the same time.

 

Hitler was mentally flawed himself. So what if secretly that was the reason he killed himself? XD

 

But seriously; everything that isn't conciously suicidal wants to live. So why deprive them of it?

[HORUS]

Because recources and money are wasted keeping them alive.

[Willieh]

' pid='1153213' dateline='1222139294']

Because recources and money are wasted keeping them alive.

 

What people don't realize is that people set values. Realisticly everything is worthless. People are easily the only creatures as bad as they are.

[JesusofChaos™]

I posted this in other thread but it is still applicable here:

People saying things are wrong and right are commiting a fundemental philosopical error. Right and Wrong are theoritical concepts that are illusions created by society to offset blame

 

I am a Atheist Existentialist. Saying you cant do something because it goes against values of our community is commiting an act of Bad Faith.

 

Bad faith is seen as any denial of free will by lying to oneself about one's self and freedom. This can take many forms' date=' from convincing oneself that some form of determinism is true, to a sort of "mimicry" where one acts as "one should." How "one" should act is often determined by an image one has of how one such as oneself (say, a bank manager) acts. This image usually corresponds to some sort of social norm.

 

This doesn't mean that all acting in accordance with social norms is bad faith: The main point is the attitude one takes to one's own freedom, and the extent to which one acts in accordance with this freedom. A sign of bad faith can be something like the denial of responsibility for something one has done on the grounds that one just did "as one does" or that one's genes determined one to do as one did. Exactly how one lies to oneself is hard to get a hold of. Sartre denies the subconscious the power to do this, and he claims that the person who is lying to him/herself has to be aware that he/she is lying - that he/she isn't determined, or this "thing" he/she makes him/herself out to be.

 

[/quote']

 

So basically by saying that killing someone is wrong, you are shifting responsibilty of your decisions onto societies values.

[Static]

I personnaly think this is a bad idea. Why kill these people' date=' if one day, yo would become one?

[/quote']

 

I will gladly die for the sake of my society, so lone as it's done in a "humane" manner.

 

Yes, I approve of Action T4.

 

We should make a T4 squad! :D

 

T4 Squad would be epic.

 

Intellectual elitists Ftw :D

[HORUS]

 

 

Looks like a band.

[Static]

Kramer, make T4 Squad a (hidden) facebook group immediately.

[「tea.leaf」]

I was changing in the shower room at the gym the other day and I came up with an analogy that compares T4 to dilapidated cars.

 

It was a good idea at the time.

[HORUS]

Kramer' date=' make T4 Squad a (hidden) facebook group immediately.

[/quote']

 

Done.

 

Who to recruit????

[Static]

' pid='1164326' dateline='1222391258']

Kramer' date=' make T4 Squad a (hidden) facebook group immediately.

[/quote']

 

Done.

 

Who to recruit????

 

Firrimani? Marty?

[HORUS]

Lol. Firmani won't join, he would be like wtf. Who is this marty??

[Flinsbon]

Ironically enough, Hitler had Bipolar Disorder (Manic - Depressive Disorder). For those of you that do not know what that means, he would be completely hyper and crazed for months (Manic). Then all of a sudden, he would become extremely depressed and remain that way for months (Depressive). That cycle repeated for his entire life.

 

Bottom line - if Hitler really wanted to finish the job entirely, he would have had to kill himself (he really did, but for a different reason).

[#1 phan]

It should have been continued.

 

Like others said.

 

If they can't contribute, kill them =/

[JesusofChaos™]

I was changing in the shower room at the gym the other day and I came up with an analogy that compares T4 to dilapidated cars.

 

It was a good idea at the time.

 

Similar to my Broken TV anaolgy

[HORUS]

Ironically enough' date=' Hitler had Bipolar Disorder (Manic - Depressive Disorder). For those of you that do not know what that means, he would be completely hyper and crazed for months (Manic). Then all of a sudden, he would become extremely depressed and remain that way for months (Depressive). That cycle repeated for his entire life.

 

Bottom line - if Hitler really wanted to finish the job entirely, he would have had to kill himself (he really did, but for a different reason).

[/quote']

 

It wasn't a disorder, it was the effect of what happened.

 

When he was denied the position of chancellor and alliance with Hindenburg and the other guy whose name I've forgotten, he was rather dejected for a while.

 

He didn't have a disorder, it was just his reaction to circumstances.

[Static]

I was changing in the shower room at the gym the other day and I came up with an analogy that compares T4 to dilapidated cars.

 

It was a good idea at the time.

 

Why isn't it a good idea now? Because social norm now states that genocide is evil and the news is everywhere?

 

The world isn't going to get anywhere without change, be it new or recourse. We need to kill these useless people to 1, make a huge blow against social value, and 2, make society more efficient.

[JesusofChaos™]

I was changing in the shower room at the gym the other day and I came up with an analogy that compares T4 to dilapidated cars.

 

It was a good idea at the time.

 

Why isn't it a good idea now? Because social norm now states that genocide is evil and the news is everywhere?

 

The world isn't going to get anywhere without change' date=' be it new or recourse. We [b']need[/b] to kill these useless people to 1, make a huge blow against social value, and 2, make society more efficient.

 

We do not need to do anything. However we should

[Static]

I was changing in the shower room at the gym the other day and I came up with an analogy that compares T4 to dilapidated cars.

 

It was a good idea at the time.

 

Why isn't it a good idea now? Because social norm now states that genocide is evil and the news is everywhere?

 

The world isn't going to get anywhere without change' date=' be it new or recourse. We [b']need[/b] to kill these useless people to 1, make a huge blow against social value, and 2, make society more efficient.

 

We do not need to do anything. However we should

 

If we want a certain outcome, we need certain things to happen.

 

Germany needed Hitler to rise to power to start World War 2, and Japan needed to agree to make it as widespread as it became.

 

But if we are not to base it on a certain event, you are right, it is not needed, it is just enforcing opinion, which just makes my argument appear more forceful.