Let's try this again, more civil.

[「tea.leaf」]

I apologize for the extreme statement i made at the beginning of the last thread, and, at this point, I think it would be appropriate to change the subject...

 

During my time in middle school, teachers asked often "What are you proud of as an American?" or "What does it mean to be an American?"

 

I was never able to answer that question at the time because I considered myself Chinese, not a part of this country.

 

Thus, I received several poor marks in English class, and somehow that meant, to my parents, I was linguistically inept.

 

After years of observing the politics in this nation and analyzing its history through my Social Studies courses, I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible for anyone to hold any pride in this nation's history and culture.

 

Today, to you, I ask the same questions asked to me so many years ago...

 

What are you proud of as an American?

 

What do it mean to be an American?

 

And to ask one of my own...

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

 

Honest opinions will be much appreciated.

 

EDIT: To add, I'm not an America-hater.

 

I have nothing against this country; the government has been quite good to me so far in my immigration.

 

(Recently acquired some travel documents that'd allow me to reenter America, hooray!)

 

Americans, on an individual basis, through my personal experience, are relatively decent and intelligible; it's the mob mentality that I can't over, honestly, and a lot of crap has happened here and elsewhere because individuals can't snap out of it...

 

America is by no means the worst, but until I experience some other nations and their policies, I cannot say it is the best.

[Willieh]

What are you proud of as an American?

Basic Freedoms and a mostly free education system.

 

What do it mean to be an American?

You were born in South America or North America.

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

I would be pretty pissed. Wouldn't verbally/physically abuse them though. Just would be pissed.

EDIT:

 

After reconsideration, I would like a more specific qualification of the word "insult" on that last survey question.

[Sbamber]

What are you most proud of as an American?

Just being in one of the best nations ever.

 

What does it mean to be an American?

Freedom

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

Depends on the comment...

[Wyhe]

Since I am not an American, I can't directly answer you,but I can do one in my own case.

 

As you may or may not know, I am a Singaporean but with a direct lineage to Hong Kong & the Cantonese people. Singapore was once a British colony and then a part of Malaysia before becoming an independent nation. At first, anyone would think that Singapore would collapse due to its lack of natural resources & racial disputes that once crushed the whole island among others. But now, Singapore has become a first-world nation & still a city-state & for that success, I am proud of Singapore.

 

However, I am only born there while the rest of my family are foreigners. It is a known fact that I still use the accent that Cantonese people would use as a reminder of my heritage. You can say that I can't stand for anyone who insult Singapore or Hong Kong. It is true that there are flaws in a nation, but we should grow to love our homeland & our origins as well for without them, we won't be here in the first place.

[「tea.leaf」]

Since I am not an American' date=' I can't directly answer you,but I can do one in my own case.

 

As you may or may not know, I am a Singaporean but with a direct lineage to Hong Kong & the Cantonese people. Singapore was once a British colony and then a part of Malaysia before becoming an independent nation. At first, anyone would think that Singapore would collapse due to its lack of natural resources & racial disputes that once crushed the whole island among others. But now, Singapore has become a first-world nation & still a city-state & for that success, I am proud of Singapore.

 

However, I am only born there while the rest of my family are foreigners. It is a known fact that I still use the accent that Cantonese people would use as a reminder of my heritage. You can say that I can't stand for anyone who insult Singapore or Hong Kong. It is true that there are flaws in a nation, but we should grow to love our homeland & our origins as well for without them, we won't be here in the first place.

[/quote']

 

I like that, well stated.

[The Dark One]

I criticize this nation myself. I take no offense at others' criticism of it, that would be the height of hypocrisy. However, unreasoning hatred does anger me. As long as one weighs the sides and comes to the conclusion that the world would have been better off without America, I see no problem.

 

Proud of as an American? I consider myself an American, not Chinese, and I still am not sure I know how to answer that. One could make arguments about the roots of this country, but our country has led itself far astray from the intentions of the founding fathers. If that is one's argument, then one is basically talking about a different America.

 

Another common argument is that we enjoy many rights and freedoms and should be thankful for them. That's true, I am very thankful for the right to free speech, etc. but that makes me no more proud to be an American than it does to be a mixture of Irish, German, and French ancestry. All of those countries have civil liberties, just as America does. Am I particularly proud of them? Not really.

 

I don't know what to say, I think that the ideals this country was founded on (democracy, freedom of speech, religion, assembly, redress, etc.) are all great, but we are not the only country to uphold those ideals. Nor were we the first, as they can be traced back to Rome and Greece.

 

And that's without even getting into the topic of all the ridiculous warmongering and adversarial international policy that we've been involved in.

[Zeroshot]

What are you proud of as an American?

Spending more money on Pizza than heath care in 1 year

 

What do it mean to be an American?

Eat a lot, step on the weak, jump headstrong into stupid voids

 

And to ask one of my own...

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

funk you, I'm American

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

Being able to select your own destiny. Which is what life is based upon

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

Authority figures. Nuff said.

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

Arguing with authority figures.

[「tea.leaf」]

Another common argument is that we enjoy many rights and freedoms and should be thankful for them. That's true' date=' I am very thankful for the right to free speech, etc. but that makes me no more proud to be an American than it does to be a mixture of Irish, German, and French ancestry. All of those countries have civil liberties, just as America does. Am I particularly proud of them? Not really.[/quote']

 

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

Many other nations today guarantee the same rights as America.

 

When someone else provides exactly the same, does pride only root from physical attachment?

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

Being able to select your own destiny. Which is what life is based upon

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

Authority figures. Nuff said.

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

Arguing with authority figures.

 

These gave me a good laugh.

[martinwwe]

Thats a lot I'll email back when I have them all answerd.

[The Dark One]

Another common argument is that we enjoy many rights and freedoms and should be thankful for them. That's true' date=' I am very thankful for the right to free speech, etc. but that makes me no more proud to be an American than it does to be a mixture of Irish, German, and French ancestry. All of those countries have civil liberties, just as America does. Am I particularly proud of them? Not really.[/quote']

 

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

Many other nations today guarantee the same rights as America.

 

When someone else provides exactly the same, does pride only root from physical attachment?

 

Well, I think the pride is irrational. It all comes down to the concept of tribalism. It's hardwired in our brains that we feel the need to join one group or another. We just want to have reasons for our particular group being better than the other groups.

 

Here's a link to a wikipedia article on tribalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism#Tribalism_and_evolution

 

Tribalism not only affects how we view people outside of our own little clique, but it also makes us view people from France differently from people from America, even aside from the obvious ethnic differences. The fact that they are from France puts another degree of seperation between them and you. They are a part of the "other."

 

Working in unity, humans can do far more than when they work alone. Therefore, it is an evolutionary process that has made it so easy for us to put all our allegiances alongside an organization we don't necessarily know that much about. Apparently, according to survival of the fittest, the sheep are the winners. We only need the occasional independent thinker to lead the sheep.

[「tea.leaf」]

Another common argument is that we enjoy many rights and freedoms and should be thankful for them. That's true' date=' I am very thankful for the right to free speech, etc. but that makes me no more proud to be an American than it does to be a mixture of Irish, German, and French ancestry. All of those countries have civil liberties, just as America does. Am I particularly proud of them? Not really.[/quote']

 

Thanks for bringing that up.

 

Many other nations today guarantee the same rights as America.

 

When someone else provides exactly the same, does pride only root from physical attachment?

 

Well, I think the pride is irrational. It all comes down to the concept of tribalism. It's hardwired in our brains that we feel the need to join one group or another. We just want to have reasons for our particular group being better than the other groups.

 

Here's a link to a wikipedia article on tribalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism#Tribalism_and_evolution

 

Tribalism not only affects how we view people outside of our own little clique, but it also makes us view people from France differently from people from America, even aside from the obvious ethnic differences. The fact that they are from France puts another degree of seperation between them and you. They are a part of the "other."

 

And from this we can go on about how all the discrimination and segregation in society...

 

Discrimination by institution: Is it inevitable?

[Wyhe]

Since I am not an American' date=' I can't directly answer you,but I can do one in my own case.

 

As you may or may not know, I am a Singaporean but with a direct lineage to Hong Kong & the Cantonese people. Singapore was once a British colony and then a part of Malaysia before becoming an independent nation. At first, anyone would think that Singapore would collapse due to its lack of natural resources & racial disputes that once crushed the whole island among others. But now, Singapore has become a first-world nation & still a city-state & for that success, I am proud of Singapore.

 

However, I am only born there while the rest of my family are foreigners. It is a known fact that I still use the accent that Cantonese people would use as a reminder of my heritage. You can say that I can't stand for anyone who insult Singapore or Hong Kong. It is true that there are flaws in a nation, but we should grow to love our homeland & our origins as well for without them, we won't be here in the first place.

[/quote']

 

I like that, well stated.

Yup,

 

If one has no pride for his/her country or motherland, they should leave that place forever for they will never a sense of belonging there.

[The Dark One]

I think it's inevitable that there will be attempts by the institution to discriminate. I do think it's also possible to keep such discrimination at bay, at least for the most part. It just requires a lot of work to get the right government officials into office.

 

And obviously, some people are more prone to discrimination than others. But even though Conservatives tend to be more close-minded and tribalist, at least outwardly, I don't see the liberals as doing much better, to be honest. I know plenty of very intelligent and staunchly liberal people who get into the mindset that JUST because a person is a conservative, he or she MUST be either evil or stupid.

 

Similarly, there's mainstream culture, which is very predatory upon individuality, etc. And then there are the countercultures: Goths, Emos, Punks, etc. that are in their own way just as limiting.

[「tea.leaf」]

I think it's inevitable that there will be attempts by the institution to discriminate. I do think it's also possible to keep such discrimination at bay' date=' at least for the most part. It just requires a lot of work to get the right government officials into office.

 

And obviously, some people are more prone to discrimination than others. But even though Conservatives tend to be more close-minded and tribalist, at least outwardly, I don't see the liberals as doing much better, to be honest. I know plenty of very intelligent and staunchly liberal people who get into the mindset that JUST because a person is a conservative, he or she MUST be either evil or stupid.

 

Similarly, there's mainstream culture, which is very predatory upon individuality, etc. And then there are the countercultures: Goths, Emos, Punks, etc. that are in their own way just as limiting.

[/quote']

 

It's natural for the human mind to categorize and draw lines, makes things easier.

 

---

 

Since I am not an American' date=' I can't directly answer you,but I can do one in my own case.

 

As you may or may not know, I am a Singaporean but with a direct lineage to Hong Kong & the Cantonese people. Singapore was once a British colony and then a part of Malaysia before becoming an independent nation. At first, anyone would think that Singapore would collapse due to its lack of natural resources & racial disputes that once crushed the whole island among others. But now, Singapore has become a first-world nation & still a city-state & for that success, I am proud of Singapore.

 

However, I am only born there while the rest of my family are foreigners. It is a known fact that I still use the accent that Cantonese people would use as a reminder of my heritage. You can say that I can't stand for anyone who insult Singapore or Hong Kong. It is true that there are flaws in a nation, but we should grow to love our homeland & our origins as well for without them, we won't be here in the first place.

[/quote']

 

I like that, well stated.

Yup,

 

If one has no pride for his/her country or motherland, they should leave that place forever for they will never a sense of belonging there.

 

Attachment is developed, is it not?

 

Of course, I try to steer away from attachment...

[CrabHelmet]

If you're here on this forum, then you did not fight in the American War of Independence.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not decide what rights Americans had upon the county's founding.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not fight against Hitler in the Second World War. (And no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply here.)

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not charge headfirst into Iraq.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not do anything to create or defend the freedoms, educational system, or other aspects of America in which you take pride.

 

So if you weren't responsible for any of this in any way, why on earth are you taking pride in it?

 

Pride should come from your own accomplishments and achievements, not from the actions of those who died two centuries ago, or from the decisions made by politicians forty years your seniors. Pride should not come by virtue of being born on a certain patch of land.

[「tea.leaf」]

If you're here on this forum' date=' then you did not fight in the American War of Independence.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not decide what rights Americans had upon the county's founding.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not fight against Hitler in the Second World War. (And no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply here.)

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not charge headfirst into Iraq.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not do anything to create or defend the freedoms, educational system, or other aspects of America in which you take pride.

 

So if you weren't responsible for any of this in any way, [i']why on earth are you taking pride in it[/i]?

 

Pride should come from your own accomplishments and achievements, not from the actions of those who died two centuries ago, or from the decisions made by politicians forty years your seniors. Pride should not come by virtue of being born on a certain patch of land.

 

Reminds me of good old George.

[Zeroshot]

If you're here on this forum' date=' then you did not fight in the American War of Independence.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not decide what rights Americans had upon the county's founding.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not fight against Hitler in the Second World War. (And no, Godwin's Law doesn't apply here.)

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not charge headfirst into Iraq.

 

If you're here on this forum, then you did not do anything to create or defend the freedoms, educational system, or other aspects of America in which you take pride.

 

So if you weren't responsible for any of this in any way, [i']why on earth are you taking pride in it[/i]?

 

Pride should come from your own accomplishments and achievements, not from the actions of those who died two centuries ago, or from the decisions made by politicians forty years your seniors. Pride should not come by virtue of being born on a certain patch of land.

 

Reminds me of good old George.

 

 

Reminds me of old North Koria commercials.

[Abstract [Atrocity]]

 

What are you proud of as an American?

i guess' date=' it's not all that good...but the rest of the world is pretty much the same (kinda). different reasons, but no country is super-special awesome

 

What do it mean to be an American?

you're born here ><

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

wouldn't care.

i only care is someone criticizes me/friends, and america isn't my friend

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

to be able to do the stuff you want.

no rules against stuff like hanging with friends, playing music, sports...

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

taking away our rights i listed above.

if it was a world where we couldn't go out and play or have fun, there's a lack of freedom.

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

fighting against something/one trying to rid us our freedom

most cases i could present would never happen, like

not letting us wear t-shirts at school with pics or words on them that express ourselves, ect

[/quote']

[Psycho Shocker Android]

You know Canada is in America too (as well as many other countries). I don't know why the United States decided that only them could be americans.

 

The question should be are you proud of the United States/your country.

[CrabHelmet]

You know Canada is in America too (as well as many other countries). I don't know why the United States decided that only them could be americans.

 

It's because their name is really generic and it's too hard to say "Unitedstatesican".

[Wyhe]

You know Canada is in America too (as well as many other countries). I don't know why the United States decided that only them could be americans.

 

The question should be are you proud of the United States/your country.

That may be due to the fact that the land that US sits on is the original 'America' that the early europeans had colonised.

[Pikachu]

Since I'm not American....I'll talk about YCM instead

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

I would consider them racist and call the mods.

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

To be free and go on YCM

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

My warning level is above 50%

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

To have mudkipz protecting me

[Luna Diviner]

I apologize for the extreme statement i made at the beginning of the last thread' date=' and, at this point, I think it would be appropriate to change the subject...

 

During my time in middle school, teachers asked often "What are you proud of as an American?" or "What does it mean to be an American?"

 

I was never able to answer that question at the time because I considered myself Chinese, not a part of this country.

 

Thus, I received several poor marks in English class, and somehow that meant, to my parents, I was linguistically inept.

 

After years of observing the politics in this nation and analyzing its history through my Social Studies courses,[b'] I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible for anyone to hold any pride in this nation's history and culture.[/b]

 

Today, to you, I ask the same questions asked to me so many years ago...

 

What are you proud of as an American?

 

What do it mean to be an American?

 

And to ask one of my own...

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

 

Honest opinions will be much appreciated.

 

EDIT: To add, I'm not an America-hater.

 

I have nothing against this country; the government has been quite good to me so far in my immigration.

 

(Recently acquired some travel documents that'd allow me to reenter America, hooray!)

 

Americans, on an individual basis, through my personal experience, are relatively decent and intelligible; it's the mob mentality that I can't over, honestly, and a lot of crap has happened here and elsewhere because individuals can't snap out of it...

 

America is by no means the worst, but until I experience some other nations and their policies, I cannot say it is the best.

The bold is exactly what I think.

My country is pretty normal, except everyone is kinda generic and god-fearing (Notice I didn't capitalize the 'g'), I'm the only Atheist that I know from Seychelles but atleast it looks nice. Very nice and the people are nice.

 

If somebody criticized by nation?

I would react differently depending on what they said.

 

Freedom is the illusion that I am allowed to live my own, doing whatever I want but infact I just a small taste of freedom.

 

Threatening Freedom is if somebody threatened to take away this above freedom, which even though is small is vital to me.

 

Protecting Freedom is to fight/debate against somebody to save the above freedom.

[Bakura Vessal]

What are you proud of as an American?

Spending more money on Pizza than heath care in 1 year

 

What do it mean to be an American?

Eat a lot' date=' step on the weak, jump headstrong into stupid voids

 

And to ask one of my own...

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

f*** you, I'm American

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

Being able to select your own destiny. Which is what life is based upon

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

Authority figures. Nuff said.

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

Arguing with authority figures.

[/quote']

 

I smell sarcasm

 

meh i dont live in america, so i wouldnt know.

 

I heard its full of fat people though

 

I will try with my own contry though

 

 

What are you proud of as an Australian?

The fact that, hmmm, I havent really thought of that much, it does have very diverce people.

 

What do it mean to be an Australia?

Um, I live there

 

How would you react if someone openly criticized your nation?

I would argue with them and insult there nation until we start slapping and jabroniing at each other

 

What does "freedom" mean to you?

Freedom is no school ever

 

What does "threatening freedom" mean to you?

Say school goes down and they are trying to bring it back up, i would hope they dont

 

What does "protecting freedom" mean to you?

Starting a riot to stop all schools forever

[Cyber Altair]

Patriotism is a dumb concept.