Communism & Democracy

[The Dark One]

Democracy > Communism' date=' as has been proven many times throughout history.

 

With democracy, at least half the people in the nation have to make the wrong choice for the thing to fail. With communism (true communism, not socialism, which is far superior), about twenty people do. Plus, power corrupts, and if your word is law, then you're much more likely to make the wrong choice.

[/quote']

 

Actually, that has never once been proven, because there has never once been a Communist state in history.

 

Marxism, the theory from which Communism is derived, as a multi-step process.

 

Step 1: The government controls all aspects of the economy and many aspects of social life, etc. in an attempt to habilitate the citizens towards working together for the greater good.

 

Step 2: The government dissolves. We are now looking at an extremely organized and prosperous form of social anarchy in which all members of society contribute and are supported by all other members of the society. This state of existence is known as a Communist state. (As in, Community living. Everything is based off of helping the community of your own volition.) Unfortunately, as Tea pointed out, this rather enlightened form of self-government must inevitably collapse due to Sectionalism and Stratification.

 

Stage 2 of the theory of Marxism, or Communism, has never had a chance to exist. This is unfortunately because the government, when given absolute power over the country's economy, etc. almost always becomes corrupted. If you were the head of one of the most powerful nations in the world, with nearly absolute control over many aspects of it, would you be eager to dissolve your government and become just another citizen?

 

You do realize that you just proved the initial point you were trying to prove wrong, right?

 

No I didn't. I gave evidence agaisnt the theory of Marxism as a whole. (And this being only inductive evidence, and is not at all sufficient to prove Marxism cannot, with a little tweaking and some good people at the head, be the best system.)

 

Communism, as I stated, has never been proven inferior to Democracy because it has never existed. (Except in small social groups like the Shakers and Quakers) China is not Communist, though it DOES hold some Marxist ideals. Russia is not Communist, though it DOES hold some Marxist ideals.

 

Government with lots of power does NOT EQUATE to Communism. In fact, it is the complete opposite. Communism DOESN'T have a government.

[「tea.leaf」]

Democracy > Communism' date=' as has been proven many times throughout history.

 

With democracy, at least half the people in the nation have to make the wrong choice for the thing to fail. With communism (true communism, not socialism, which is far superior), about twenty people do. Plus, power corrupts, and if your word is law, then you're much more likely to make the wrong choice.

[/quote']

 

Actually, that has never once been proven, because there has never once been a Communist state in history.

 

Marxism, the theory from which Communism is derived, as a multi-step process.

 

Step 1: The government controls all aspects of the economy and many aspects of social life, etc. in an attempt to habilitate the citizens towards working together for the greater good.

 

Step 2: The government dissolves. We are now looking at an extremely organized and prosperous form of social anarchy in which all members of society contribute and are supported by all other members of the society. This state of existence is known as a Communist state. (As in, Community living. Everything is based off of helping the community of your own volition.) Unfortunately, as Tea pointed out, this rather enlightened form of self-government must inevitably collapse due to Sectionalism and Stratification.

 

Stage 2 of the theory of Marxism, or Communism, has never had a chance to exist. This is unfortunately because the government, when given absolute power over the country's economy, etc. almost always becomes corrupted. If you were the head of one of the most powerful nations in the world, with nearly absolute control over many aspects of it, would you be eager to dissolve your government and become just another citizen?

 

You do realize that you just proved the initial point you were trying to prove wrong, right?

 

No I didn't. I gave evidence agaisnt the theory of Marxism as a whole. (And this being only inductive evidence, and is not at all sufficient to prove Marxism to be, with a little tweaking and some good people at the head, the best system.)

 

Communism, as I stated, has never been proven inferior to Democracy because it has never existed. (Except in small social groups like the Shakers and Quakers) China is not Communist, though it DOES hold some Marxist ideals. Russia is not Communist, though it DOES hold some Marxist ideals.

 

Government with lots of power does NOT EQUATE to Communism. In fact, it is the complete opposite. Communism DOESN'T have a government.

 

Finally, someone who's not filled with this western batshit.

[Huntar!]

If everyone gets paid the same amount of money, then it almost eliminates social classes and rich and poor = not bad thing.

 

US=representative democracy

 

A government that doesn't support the people and provide public services is a goverment not fufilling the duties of a government.

[Wyhe]

If everyone gets paid the same amount of money' date=' then it almost eliminates social classes and rich and poor = [s']not[/s] bad thing.

You see, if everyone is paid the same amount, then economical progress would be stopped & the country itself will be in poverty within decades

[OMGAKITTY]

If everyone gets paid the same amount of money' date=' then it almost eliminates social classes and rich and poor = not bad thing.

[/quote']

 

capitalism =/= democracy.

[T. Sankara]

Democracy and communism were meant to go hand-in-hand' date=' really.

 

Democracy is equal distribution of expression, communism is equal distribution of property.

[/quote']

 

This.

[Tabris]

To the posters above me:

 

Please type coherently, so that I could understand you.

 

(You know who you are. If you're offended, funk yourself for bein' a fuckin' dyslexic.)

[Metal Lord]

Ultimately, nothing will work if there is one greedy sheet head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[OMGAKITTY]

To the posters above me:

 

Please type coherently' date=' so that I c[b']an[/b] understand you.

 

(You know who you are. If you're offended, f*** yourself for bein' a fuckin' dyslexic.)

 

fix'd.

 

 

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy sheet head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

[Holy Babylon]

Communism is a utopian's idea, in-case you've ever read the book about the perfect utopia.

[Wyhe]

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy s*** head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

 

Communism is a utopian's idea' date=' in-case you've ever read the book about the perfect utopia.

[/quote']

 

The 2 above quotes clearly state that Democracy & capitalism are more practical & realistic. While communism is more of a poor man's weak dream.

[The Dark One]

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy s*** head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

 

Communism is a utopian's idea' date=' in-case you've ever read the book about the perfect utopia.

[/quote']

 

The 2 above quotes clearly state that Democracy & capitalism are more practical & realistic. While communism is more of a poor man's weak dream.

 

This is probably the best summary of the value of each system. Communism is the best system if it works. The problem is getting it to work. However, just because we as a race are not mature enough to utilize Communism right now doesn't mean that we will never be. It's a goal we should look to in the future.

 

However, Capitalism, while perhaps the best thing available to us at this time, actually works against any chances of our race successfully creating a Communist state in the future. It embeds a deep feeling of selfishness within each and every one of us.

 

(And don't go saying things like we are inherently selfish, because you probably don't know what you're talking about. There is a study of a pattern of behavior that scientists jokingly call the "selfish gene," referring not to a gene that makes us selfish, but the selfishness of the gene itself. Basically, the best possible way to preserve our DNA is to sacrifice oneself to protect one's 'clan.' Because they, who will have similar DNA, will then get to reproduce, the genes are preserved. This is basically the evolutionary basis of altruism. This whole concept actually supports Communism, we just have to learn to expand our worldview to include every person within the Communist nation as a part of our 'clan.' The theory logically extends beyond the preservation of DNA into the preservation of ideologies.)

 

Therefore, Capitalism is actually damaging our future. You see, as long as Capitalism, and therefore unneeded personal selfishness, remains dominant, the same problems that bar our path from Communism right now will bar our paths in the future. That, coupled with the efficiency of government over corporation (I know some would say that government is less efficient with what they actually do, but to their advantage they actually have progress as their objective, and not just profit), is why I'm a Socialist. If we can just gradually ween ourselves off of this Laissez-Faire system we promote, we'll be in a much better position to live in this 'utopia' that several members of this thread are mentioning so scornfully.

 

The present flaws in Communism are best exemplified in Game Theory and more specifically within the Prisoner's Dilemma. Basically, cooperation is superior to mutual annihilation, but mutual annihilation is inevitable because defectation (bettering yourself at the expense of the other) is better than cooperation, as long as you operate under the assumption that everyone else DOES cooperate. However, if both parties following defective behavior, than both parties are worsened.

[Tabris]

To the posters above me:

 

Please type coherently' date=' so that I c[b']an[/b] understand you.

 

(You know who you are. If you're offended, f*** yourself for bein' a fuckin' dyslexic.)

 

fix'd.

 

It's interestin' what a few edits does to mine mood.

 

Speakin' of which, you've edited mine mood.

[Metal Lord]

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy s*** head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

 

Communism is a utopian's idea' date=' in-case you've ever read the book about the perfect utopia.

[/quote']

 

The 2 above quotes clearly state that Democracy & capitalism are more practical & realistic. While communism is more of a poor man's weak dream.

 

Yeah, that'd be true.

[Lemniscate]

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy s*** head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

 

Communism is a utopian's idea' date=' in-case you've ever read the book about the perfect utopia.

[/quote']

 

The 2 above quotes clearly state that Democracy & capitalism are more practical & realistic. While communism is more of a poor man's weak dream.

 

This is probably the best summary of the value of each system. Communism is the best system if it works. The problem is getting it to work. However, just because we as a race are not mature enough to utilize Communism right now doesn't mean that we will never be. It's a goal we should look to in the future.

 

However, Capitalism, while perhaps the best thing available to us at this time, actually works against any chances of our race successfully creating a Communist state in the future. It embeds a deep feeling of selfishness within each and every one of us.

 

(And don't go saying things like we are inherently selfish, because you probably don't know what you're talking about. There is a study of a pattern of behavior that scientists jokingly call the "selfish gene," referring not to a gene that makes us selfish, but the selfishness of the gene itself. Basically, the best possible way to preserve our DNA is to sacrifice oneself to protect one's 'clan.' Because they, who will have similar DNA, will then get to reproduce, the genes are preserved. This is basically the evolutionary basis of altruism. This whole concept actually supports Communism, we just have to learn to expand our worldview to include every person within the Communist nation as a part of our 'clan.' The theory logically extends beyond the preservation of DNA into the preservation of ideologies.)

 

Therefore, Capitalism is actually damaging our future. You see, as long as Capitalism, and therefore unneeded personal selfishness, remains dominant, the same problems that bar our path from Communism right now will bar our paths in the future. That, coupled with the efficiency of government over corporation (I know some would say that government is less efficient with what they actually do, but to their advantage they actually have progress as their objective, and not just profit), is why I'm a Socialist. If we can just gradually ween ourselves off of this Laissez-Faire system we promote, we'll be in a much better position to live in this 'utopia' that several members of this thread are mentioning so scornfully.

 

The present flaws in Communism are best exemplified in Game Theory and more specifically within the Prisoner's Dilemma. Basically, cooperation is superior to mutual annihilation, but mutual annihilation is inevitable because defectation (bettering yourself at the expense of the other) is better than cooperation, as long as you operate under the assumption that everyone else DOES cooperate. However, if both parties following defective behavior, than both parties are worsened.

 

Your need to attempt to use big words to make yourself seem smart, when you are in actuality stating something previously said and blatantly obvious, astounds me.

 

Also, why are you talking about Capitalism when the thread is about Democracy and Communism?

 

Past posters have attempted to argue that Communism is an economic theory, this is only half the truth.

In Communism, Economy and Government are the same thing. However, Democracy does not inherently mandate Capitalism.

 

So please return to the topic.

[Wyhe]

Ultimately' date=' nothing will work if there is one greedy s*** head out there aiming to use the system for his own goals.

[/quote']

 

There's always a greedy s*** head out there trying to be better than everyone else. It's what makes capitalism work...mostly.

 

Also' date=' why are you talking about Capitalism when the thread is about Democracy and Communism?

[/quote']

Because most people associate Capitalism with Democracy...although some countries don't follow this system.

[Huntar!]

I guess you are right, but I personally believe that the ideal is good. If it could be executed correctly, I find it to be fine.

[The Dark One]

Your need to attempt to use big words to make yourself seem smart' date=' when you are in actuality stating something previously said and blatantly obvious, astounds me.

[b']Lolwut? So now words like "actuality" or "blatantly" are too big to understand? This is the way I speak. If you can't understand me, than either look the fuckking word up or leave well enough alone.[/b]

 

Also, why are you talking about Capitalism when the thread is about Democracy and Communism?

Democracy and Communism cannot be equated. It's not a matter of choosing between Democracy and Communism, but either Democracy and Authoritarianism, or Communism and Capitalism. I think it's fairly clear that Democracy provides a more stable and more fair basis for a country than does Authoritarianism, so I chose the latter option, because it would give better discussion.

Past posters have attempted to argue that Communism is an economic theory, this is only half the truth.

Communism isn't a form of government. In fact, most Communist idealogies specifically denote Democracy as their governmental form. (Whereas Capitalism can exist in Authoritarianist states as well.) Marxism is just an offshoot branch of Socialism. (Other branches include Libertarian Socialism, Anarcho-Socialism, Leninism, Stalinism, etc.) Communism is the name given to the final stage of described by Marxism, in which the government, previously enacting Socialist policies (Either true State Ownership or just Nationalization), dissolves its hold upon the economy, and the people, of their own free volition, all work for the greater good. Marxists or other theorists that predict Communism as the end result often argue about whether a government should exist at all after the change has taken place.

 

In Communism, Economy and Government are the same thing. However, Democracy does not inherently mandate Capitalism.

No, you've got it all wrong. In extreme (as in preparing for Communism) forms of Socialism, this is the case. In Communism, the government isn't really related. (It may not even exist.)

 

So please return to the topic.

I already am quite on topic, thank you.