Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Timelines show the past or the predicted future. If you want to show a timeline with every possibility of the predicted future, you would have to split it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Timelines show the past or the predicted future. If you want to show a timeline with every possibility of the predicted future, you would have to split it up. *sigh* Do you believe in cause and effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Timelines show the past or the predicted future. If you want to show a timeline with every possibility of the predicted future, you would have to split it up. *sigh* Do you believe in cause and effect? The reason this post showed up (effect) is because I clicked on the post reply button (cause). However, many things could have happened. My router could have exploded. I could have BSoD'd, etc. This post already showed up, so we can eliminate an infinite amount of possibilities to leave this one: the post showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Dahlia Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Cause and effect can't prove that fate exists. On the moment of impact, C&E can be many things. It's just a matter of PREDICTING which one will actually happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Timelines show the past or the predicted future. If you want to show a timeline with every possibility of the predicted future, you would have to split it up. *sigh* Do you believe in cause and effect? The reason this post showed up (effect) is because I clicked on the post reply button (cause). However, many things could have happened. My router could have exploded. I could have BSoD'd, etc. This post already showed up, so we can eliminate an infinite amount of possibilities to leave this one: the post showed up. Your router could have exploded, because? I was asking a yes or no question. If you believe yes then you have to admit that determinism is real. If you believe that cause and effect doesn't exist, .... ... ......... ... .... .... etc...Cause and effect can't prove that fate exists. On the moment of impact' date=' C&E can be many things. It's just a matter of PREDICTING which one will actually happen...[/quote'] Cause and effect causes everything that happens to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 You still had the option to not take the vest' date=' thinking that you could be saved some other way, and if you died, it was alright. You HAD an option, and I doubt both options would lead to the same outcome.[/quote'] The only reason you THINK you HAD the option is because you can't take a timeline out and look at it physically. Why do you think timelines are straight? Timelines show the past or the predicted future. If you want to show a timeline with every possibility of the predicted future, you would have to split it up. *sigh* Do you believe in cause and effect? The reason this post showed up (effect) is because I clicked on the post reply button (cause). However, many things could have happened. My router could have exploded. I could have BSoD'd, etc. This post already showed up, so we can eliminate an infinite amount of possibilities to leave this one: the post showed up. Your router could have exploded, because? Just a random reason of why my post might have not shown up. :/ I was asking a yes or no question. If you believe yes then you have to admit that determinism is real. If you believe that cause and effect doesn't exist, .... ... ......... ... .... .... etc... Yes, cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.Cause and effect can't prove that fate exists. On the moment of impact' date=' C&E can be many things. It's just a matter of PREDICTING which one will actually happen...[/quote'] Cause and effect causes everything that happens to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Alternate universes theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. You know what's funny? I'm reading a manga whose current arc is revolving around that alternate universe theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I never knew manga gets into deep stuff like that. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I never knew manga gets into deep stuff like that. :/ manga and anime are just another medium to convey stories. They aren't all kiddie stuff. Case in point:http://www.onemanga.com/Doubt/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. ... If the other things DIDN'T happen, I hardly see how they COULD have happened. Anything COULD have happened. A bomb could have been hurdled from the sun at your house, but been stopped by a gay super hero wearing flip-flops. But that's not really RELEVANT because it DIDN'T happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. ... If the other things DIDN'T happen, I hardly see how they COULD have happened. Anything COULD have happened. A bomb could have been hurdled from the sun at your house, but been stopped by a gay super hero wearing flip-flops. But that's not really RELEVANT because it DIDN'T happen. There was a POSSIBILITY that it could have happened. If you line up an infinite amount of parellel universes and put them in the same situation, will you always get the exact same outcome? NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. ... If the other things DIDN'T happen, I hardly see how they COULD have happened. Anything COULD have happened. A bomb could have been hurdled from the sun at your house, but been stopped by a gay super hero wearing flip-flops. But that's not really RELEVANT because it DIDN'T happen. There was a POSSIBILITY that it could have happened. If you line up an infinite amount of parellel universes and put them in the same situation, will you always get the exact same outcome? NO. So you're telling me that if you do the exact same thing, in the exact same way, in the exact same environment that it will come up with different outcomes? If one thing HAPPENED then there wasn't a possibility of anything else happening. >_> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. ... If the other things DIDN'T happen, I hardly see how they COULD have happened. Anything COULD have happened. A bomb could have been hurdled from the sun at your house, but been stopped by a gay super hero wearing flip-flops. But that's not really RELEVANT because it DIDN'T happen. There was a POSSIBILITY that it could have happened. If you line up an infinite amount of parellel universes and put them in the same situation, will you always get the exact same outcome? NO. So you're telling me that if you do the exact same thing, in the exact same way, in the exact same environment that it will come up with different outcomes? If one thing HAPPENED then there wasn't a possibility of anything else happening. >_> We are talking about alternate universes. Imagine 2 seperate universes. Both have a player rolling a die in the exact same situation. Using your logic, both die will roll on the same number, on the exact same coordinates. However, the probability both will land on the same number is 1/36, not 1. When you are dealing with seperate universes, something that happens in one universe will not happen in the other. There are infinite possibilities when you are looking at a cause. The effect, however, is chosen from one of those. Just like a die is rolled, a number is chosen out of 6. I'm going to sleep, we'll continue this tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Dahlia Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 THX dark for taking over for me. I knew i wasn't alone on my decision...But I can end this: IF ANYONE GIVES HARDCORE PROOF THAT "FATE" IS REAL(With an example), THEN I WILL CHANGE MY BELEIF. YOU CAN PRESENT IT AT ANY TIME. BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT, THE CASE OF "FATE" ACTUALLY EXISTING IS LOOKING VERY WEAK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMGAKITTY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 THX dark for taking over for me. I knew i wasn't alone on my decision...But I can end this: IF ANYONE GIVES HARDCORE PROOF THAT "FATE" IS REAL(With an example)' date=' THEN I WILL CHANGE MY BELEIF. YOU CAN PRESENT IT AT ANY TIME. BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT, THE CASE OF "FATE" ACTUALLY EXISTING IS LOOKING VERY WEAK.[/b'] It was fated that you would say that. Enjoy your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Dahlia Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I said, "Hardcore" proof omgakitty. I highly doubt a mere sentence qualifies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willieh Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Yes' date=' cause and effect is real. But cause and effect only outlines ONE possibilty; that is, the possibility that happens. There are an infinite amount of other possibilites that didn't happen. Determinism? No.[/b'] You just disproved yourself. There are an infinite amount of other possibilities that didn't happen. Due to cause and effect, the ONE possibility outlined is the ONLY possible outcome. The other possibilities that didn't happen may as well not even be mentioned. No, you misunderstood me. Imagine I am typing this post right now, and I hit the Post Reply button. STOP. FREEZE TIME. Let's outline all the possibilites. The cause, obviously, is me hitting the Post Reply button. These are the possibile outcomes: - The post shows up.- The screen lags for a few seconds and then the post shows up.- "Window's cannot display this page."- My router suddenly disconnects.- BSoD....- Palin comes to my house and kicks my CPU so it breaks.- A meteor breaks my house, not allowing me to post this. As you can see, there are obvious possibilities and there are stupid possibilites, that are still possible. Let's start time again. You are obviously reading this post, so the one that obviously happened was this post showed up. That is the effect of my cause, which was clicking post reply. That wasn't the only effect that COULD HAVE happened, however. No, that WAS the only effect that COULD have happened. Explain to me how something else could have happened when that DID happen. =\ Imagine 1,000,000 alternate universes. With exactly the same scenario. Me hitting the post reply button. Maybe in 980,000 of them, the post shows up. Maybe in 5000 of them, I get a BSoD. Et cetera. We only have one universe and can only perceive what happens in this one universe, so the only outcome we see is what actually happens on this universe. Once again. Explain to me the RELEVANCE of those other options... :/ There are other things that could have happened. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, I made a choice to hit the post reply button. That was the cause. In this given universe, at this given time, at this given place, at this given situation, the post showed up. That was the effect. If you took it to another universe, or another time, or another place, or another situation, there might have been a different outcome. Therefore, there is one cause but multiple effects. The effect we see is because of these specifications. ... If the other things DIDN'T happen, I hardly see how they COULD have happened. Anything COULD have happened. A bomb could have been hurdled from the sun at your house, but been stopped by a gay super hero wearing flip-flops. But that's not really RELEVANT because it DIDN'T happen. There was a POSSIBILITY that it could have happened. If you line up an infinite amount of parellel universes and put them in the same situation, will you always get the exact same outcome? NO. So you're telling me that if you do the exact same thing, in the exact same way, in the exact same environment that it will come up with different outcomes? If one thing HAPPENED then there wasn't a possibility of anything else happening. >_> We are talking about alternate universes. Imagine 2 seperate universes. Both have a player rolling a die in the exact same situation. Using your logic, both die will roll on the same number, on the exact same coordinates. However, the probability both will land on the same number is 1/36, not 1. When you are dealing with seperate universes, something that happens in one universe will not happen in the other. There are infinite possibilities when you are looking at a cause. The effect, however, is chosen from one of those. Just like a die is rolled, a number is chosen out of 6. I'm going to sleep, we'll continue this tomorrow. I don't give a sheet how many alternate universes we're apparently talking about. If the SAME thing happens in the SAME environment it will have the SAME outcome. Unless there was a situation in another universe where something different happened, then yeah, there'd be a different outcome. BUT THAT WOULD STILL BE DUE TO CAUSE AND EFFECT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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