Everyone who posts in this topic is gay.

[PrometheusMFD]

Ok, how communism is wrong is it degrades into Fascism, or total government control over the lives of the citizen.

It is because you will never find someone who wants political power to "help others". It is merely to line thier own pockets so to speak.

A communist economy is designed to collapse, which is never good for a country.

That is why I'm Capitalist.

Democracy at its purest

[Sunshine Jesse]

Democracy at its purest is terrible =/

[PrometheusMFD]

On a federal scale, yes.

But when limited to the citizen with a Republic as the Federal State it is the greatest thing that has ever happened.

[Çå®∂îñål]

has communisum ever worked in history

[PrometheusMFD]

Sorry, wrong thread. This is about the moral implications of Communism. Not whether or not it works.

[Static]

Ok' date=' how communism is wrong is it degrades into Fascism, or total government control over the lives of the citizen.

It is because you will never find someone who wants political power to "help others". It is merely to line thier own pockets so to speak.

A communist economy is designed to collapse, which is never good for a country.

That is why I'm Capitalist.

Democracy at its purest

[/quote']

 

Read Post #70 of this thread.

 

Fascism is MUCH more than "complete control of the government."

 

Fascism is Economic freedom with no social freedom; even though the goal of the Nazi Party was to make a socialist regime once all the "unwanteds" were removed and enemies defeated.

 

The Hegelian structure (philosophy founded by Georg Hegel), or "Authoritarianism" is when the state is in complete control; little to no social or economic freedoms exists.

 

A communist economy does not collapse because communism has no economy. In Communism, people don't OWN things (which is good for people, better character when you don't think like a capitalist). We call the system of rationing an "economy" because the capitalist world gives value to items, and because there is still capitalism, it must be looked at this way. As long as it is looked at this way, it is unlikely that places outside of Tibet or those along the nature of a Kibbutz could create an equal, self sufficient system.

 

Also, Democracy is infinitely worse than Theocracy. People can make mistakes, god cannot.

[Frunk]

Here is a question to all you communists out there: Has there ever been a single time' date=' [b']a single time[/b], when communism succeeded in its goals?

 

If you call the current economic state of the capitalist world "success," then this world is more doomed than I have come to believe, thanks to those like you.

 

Communism has only "failed" thus far because fascists have got their greedy capitalistic hands on the regimes and used them for their own exploits. Kim Jong-Il owns a fleet of more than 300 luxury BMWs. He is not a communist.

[Willieh]

Because people should be responsible for their self.

 

The government shouldn't owe anyone anything.

 

 

BTW; lol at anyone who thinks America is a democracy.

[Красивая Ведьма]

Ha, were do I begin. Communism removes control of personal finance, and it always results in a country depleting its economy. So far, China is the only communist country that can function and it is facing great difficulty. The Soviet Union's economy style was so flawed in its government production that it destroyed itself.

 

Secondly, in a communism no one can advance in a society above the "normal" so everyone has equal amounts of money, which is never much. This causes crime to increase drastically. The only way to live well (Which is what all humans’ desire) in totally socialist countries is that they must resort to crime. The socialist countries created the strongest organized crime for this reason. The Italian Mafia started because of this. So did the Russian Mob. And the Chinese Triad, which is currently the strongest organized crime in the world.

 

Thirdly, in all communisms in the world they denounce freedom of speech. This removes the morale of the people. After this boredom sets in and culture decreases. Often, this causes revolutions to occur when they see how richly capitalist countries like America's citizens live.

[Tefached]

the idea of democracy is great...free will, free choices, etc...great idea.

 

Communism is to control this will of the people, to take it away. Basically control everything, actions, words, thoughts, everything. This is not a good idea because there will always be someone with the will to change, to make things better.

 

Neither form of government is perfect, but communism is definitely the lesser of the two.

 

No, communism is not wrong nor is it right. This is a matter of opinion and cannot be proven by fact. People call communism wrong based on the arrogance of Americans.

 

Getting rid of government all together wouldn't solve this either, as it would create chaos, and in this chaos someone would once again, have the will to stand above everyone with the want for a better change. All in all, the human will is what makes governments fall and rise. All it takes is one person saying, "I can make this a better world." and actually following through with it.

[Красивая Ведьма]

the idea of democracy is great...free will' date=' free choices, etc...great idea.

 

Communism is to control this will of the people, to take it away. Basically control everything, actions, words, thoughts, everything. This is not a good idea because there will always be someone with the will to change, to make things better.

 

Neither form of government is perfect, but communism is definitely the lesser of the two.

 

No, communism is not wrong nor is it right. This is a matter of opinion and cannot be proven by fact. People call communism wrong based on the arrogance of Americans.

 

Getting rid of government all together wouldn't solve this either, as it would create chaos, and in this chaos someone would once again, have the will to stand above everyone with the want for a better change. All in all, the human will is what makes governments fall and rise. All it takes is one person saying, "I can make this a better world." and actually following through with it.

[/quote']

 

Most people who dislike communism do not want the opposite, anarchy. Democracy, in its best form, is a blend of capitalism and socialism. A good balance of the two with capitalism slightly more predominate creates in my opinion the best government. Also, for such a government to work you must be secular! This formula will create a strong government.

[Static]

' pid='2193868' dateline='1242716618']

I didn't ask you morons whether communism would work or not. I asked why communism was wrong' date=' as in immoral. Not why it's impossible. Why it's wrong. Seriously, what is wrong with a fair, equal, productive, responsible, classless society? I don't understand.

 

People used to, and still do, call people 'communist' as an insult that denotes an immoral person. I'm having a hard time understanding how a person who shares and is responsible and productive is immoral.[/b']

 

Necessary reminder.

[Красивая Ведьма]

 

Read Post #70 of this thread.

 

Fascism is MUCH more than "complete control of the government."

 

Fascism is Economic freedom with no social freedom; even though the goal of the Nazi Party was to make a socialist regime once all the "unwanteds" were removed and enemies defeated.

 

The Hegelian structure (philosophy founded by Georg Hegel), or "Authoritarianism" is when the state is in complete control; little to no social or economic freedoms exists.

 

A communist economy does not collapse because communism has no economy. In Communism, people don't OWN things (which is good for people, better character when you don't think like a capitalist). We call the system of rationing an "economy" because the capitalist world gives value to items, and because there is still capitalism, it must be looked at this way. As long as it is looked at this way, it is unlikely that places outside of Tibet or those along the nature of a Kibbutz could create an equal, self sufficient system.

 

Also, Democracy is infinitely worse than Theocracy. People can make mistakes, god cannot.

 

First of all the main thing that stuck out of this post to me is the comment Theocracy is better than a democracy. Theocracy and fundamentalism are the worse than communism. You say people can make mistakes and god can't is flawed. Who decides which religion is chosen? And who interprets "god."

[Tefached]

' pid='2193868' dateline='1242716618']

I didn't ask you morons whether communism would work or not. I asked why communism was wrong' date=' as in immoral. Not why it's impossible. Why it's wrong. Seriously, what is wrong with a fair, equal, productive, responsible, classless society? I don't understand.

 

People used to, and still do, call people 'communist' as an insult that denotes an immoral person. I'm having a hard time understanding how a person who shares and is responsible and productive is immoral.[/b']

 

Necessary reminder.

^indeed, ill work off this then^

 

Communism is wrong because this 'productive' Society of classless people, creates a sense that you don't need to worry about working upward to gain a position of power, no goals are then needed, because no matter the job the person working at a burger king will make the same money as the doctor or as the lawyer.

 

It is immoral because it removes the most basic of human needs; desire to prove one's self.

 

As for the insult of being called a commie, that is simply the result of retarded and arrogant americans thinking that just because we live in this country that makes us great. Well, though this is the thinking/image of most americans. It is not how we all think.

 

We are not a great country because we're a democracy, or that we have freedoms that others don't. We are not a great country at all. We are a symbol that you can rise up from an oppressive power and make you and your fellow people better for the sense of well-being. America is no longer this amazing country we say we are. Just a symbol.

[Красивая Ведьма]

"I didn't ask you morons whether communism would work or not. I asked why communism was wrong, as in immoral. Not why it's impossible. Why it's wrong. Seriously, what is wrong with a fair, equal, productive, responsible, classless society? I don't understand.

 

People used to, and still do, call people 'communist' as an insult that denotes an immoral person. I'm having a hard time understanding how a person who shares and is responsible and productive is immoral."

 

Morality is invented based on the level of a functioning society. So what we can "moral" is derived form ancient world ideas and philosophies that are created to form a working human society. So the reasons it doesn't work and is immoral are very close. The entire idea of morality is made so we can coexist. This is why morality is good. It helps us understand each other.

[Static]

 

Read Post #70 of this thread.

 

Fascism is MUCH more than "complete control of the government."

 

Fascism is Economic freedom with no social freedom; even though the goal of the Nazi Party was to make a socialist regime once all the "unwanteds" were removed and enemies defeated.

 

The Hegelian structure (philosophy founded by Georg Hegel)' date=' or "Authoritarianism" is when the state is in complete control; little to no social or economic freedoms exists.

 

A communist economy does not collapse because communism has no economy. In Communism, people don't OWN things (which is good for people, better character when you don't think like a capitalist). We call the system of rationing an "economy" because the capitalist world gives value to items, and because there is still capitalism, it must be looked at this way. As long as it is looked at this way, it is unlikely that places outside of Tibet or those along the nature of a Kibbutz could create an equal, self sufficient system.

 

Also, Democracy is infinitely worse than Theocracy. People can make mistakes, god cannot.

[/quote']

 

First of all the main thing that stuck out of this post to me is the comment Theocracy is better than a democracy. Theocracy and fundamentalism are the worse than communism. You say people can make mistakes and god can't is flawed. Who decides which religion is chosen? And who interprets "god."

 

The people with the power.

 

Those outside of the inner circle believe it and they coexist in peace.

---

 

 

 

"I didn't ask you morons whether communism would work or not. I asked why communism was wrong' date=' as in immoral. Not why it's impossible. Why it's wrong. Seriously, what is wrong with a fair, equal, productive, responsible, classless society? I don't understand.

 

People used to, and still do, call people 'communist' as an insult that denotes an immoral person. I'm having a hard time understanding how a person who shares and is responsible and productive is immoral."[/quote']

 

Morality is invented based on the level of a functioning society. So what we can "moral" is derived form ancient world ideas and philosophies that are created to form a working human society. So the reasons it doesn't work and is immoral are very close. The entire idea of morality is made so we can coexist. This is why morality is good. It helps us understand each other.

 

Morality is based on justice, what is right and wrong.

 

Society doesn't need to promote successful coexistence to be just, it just needs to promote some sort of general theme of justice to be just, derived from some means, whether it is "what's best for a functioning society" or simply from "religious texts."

[Красивая Ведьма]

First of all, in theocracies people rarely coexist peaceful. Not to mention, it destroys independent thought and scientific research. Look at the Middle East; they are fundamentalist which theocracies are basically. Any form of government that limits self power and the ability for someone to think for them is going to fail. In religion people have different views no matter what. Sooner or later someone will have a new idea and revolt. Then create a new reformed theocracy and the cycle never ends. This will cause the government to take forceful action just like the Spanish Inquisition.

 

Yes, morality is based on justice as well. Morals are created through justice and the philosophies of peace.

[Static]

First of all' date=' in theocracies people rarely coexist peaceful. Not to mention, it destroys independent thought and scientific research. Look at the Middle East; they are fundamentalist which theocracies are basically. Any form of government that limits self power and the ability for someone to think for them is going to fail. In religion people have different views no matter what. Sooner or later someone will have a new idea and revolt. Then create a new reformed theocracy and the cycle never ends. This will cause the government to take forceful action just like the Spanish Inquisition.

 

Yes, morality is based on justice as well. Morals are created through justice and the philosophies of peace.

[/quote']

 

The Middle East is going to fail?

 

Theocracy is healthy, it gives the community a single culture and way of life. It reduces differences between people's thoughts; people are in agreement and thus closer to each other on the fundamental level.

 

The reduction of independent thought and scientific research isn't the worst thing in the world, it will probably beneficial for us in the long run anyway.

 

People shouldn't think for themselves because that promotes individualistic thought. People are born under the idea that, as people, we are separate from each other. We aren't. In spirit and essence, we are and belong to the same exact system; I call it Brahman, you can call it whatever you like.

[Красивая Ведьма]

As I have said before, people are independent thinkers in all theocracies people get new ideas and create war. This was true in the Middle East, Medieval Europe, and all other theocratic states in the world. The lack of science is terrible! I can't believe someone would dare say we do not need it. It increases lifespan, our understanding, entertainment, and science is made of proven facts that can't be denied unlike religion which can have many different interpretations.

 

In a society which represses independent ideas it is going to be ravaged by war far and secret societies. You claim that "Theocracy is healthy, it gives the community a single culture and way of life. It reduces differences between people's thoughts; people are in agreement and thus closer to each other on the fundamental level." yes this is true for just a while. Then, new ideas are created and people begin to fight for those ideas. This is civil war, which the Middle East is tortured by.

[Static]

As I have said before' date=' people are independent thinkers in all theocracies people get new ideas and create war. This was true in the Middle East, Medieval Europe, and all other theocratic states in the world. The lack of science is terrible! I can't believe someone would dare say we do not need it. It increases lifespan, our understanding, entertainment, and science is made of proven facts that can't be denied unlike religion which can have many different interpretations.

 

In a society which represses independent ideas it is going to be ravaged by war far and secret societies. You claim that "Theocracy is healthy, it gives the community a single culture and way of life. It reduces differences between people's thoughts; people are in agreement and thus closer to each other on the fundamental level." yes this is true for just a while. Then, new ideas are created and people begin to fight for those ideas. This is civil war, which the Middle East is tortured by.

[/quote']

 

People don't need to live long; those who would be concerned with long life aren't putting enough love and attention into the present moment. We don't need facts proven, that gives people the idea that reality beyond their faith, their perception, is important. Religion is good for a lot of people; it keeps them content with the world around them through the knowing of god and happy with the knowing that they're way of thinking is in the right.

 

Political and religious dissonance, in a theocracy, should result in execution. I believe the crime is called blasphemy.

[Красивая Ведьма]

We want to live long! Why should we die if we can prevent death? I want a long happy life not a short miserable one. Perception doesn't matter; reality is what matters. You think that we should go back to the Spanish Inquisition. If you mean what you say then you are a monster. You think people should be killed because they disagree with the leader of a religion. In a democracy we can all have different ideas, enjoy the benefit of science, and live in peace. In a theocracy we can have ONE idea and die if we don't agree, suffer due to a lack of truth, and endure constant civil wars. If God could run a country that would be ideal, but God doesn’t rule in a theocracy. The leader of the church rules in a theocracy.

[Static]

God does run the country if the people don't deny his wisdom. It doesn't matter how artificial or misperceived this god may be.

 

We don't need to live long; life happens the way it will. Death is the road to awe, it is the ultimate liberation from the bounds of reality. Psychedellic's and dreams are a close second, but not everyone dabbles with them enough to realize just how alive being alive really is. Reality is woven by our minds; it's fair to say that reality only exists in our minds. It's what we think and believe that matter's, not the objective events that can be interpreted a million ways by a million people.

 

In a Theocracy, people should be killed for blasphemy. In the same respect, you would agree with me that a person who kidnaps and murders a child should be at least removed from society, if not killed. Change the society and you change justice.

 

When we enjoy the benefits of science and let people think freely, we live in constant war. Sure, it's not as visible to us on the home front, but not seeing it at all is ignorance. It is the freedom of thought that causes the injustices in the world; if everyone held on to the same fundamentals, no one would find a need to kill someone over a fundamental.

 

In theocracy, we will have one faith and know that our comrades are all in agreement with us, the same way that you can talk to someone about how horrible a child kidnapper is and not get a response of "actually, that's not such a bad thing" (which is a disgusting thing to say). There would be no wars if god's will was for men to suffer equally; they would have no one to blame for their misfortune other than their idea of god.

[Красивая Ведьма]

God does run the country if the people don't deny his wisdom. It doesn't matter how artificial or misperceived this god may be.

 

We don't need to live long; life happens the way it will. Death is the road to awe' date=' it is the ultimate liberation from the bounds of reality. Psychedellic's and dreams are a close second, but not everyone dabbles with them enough to realize just how alive being alive really is. Reality is woven by our minds; it's fair to say that reality only exists in our minds. It's what we think and believe that matter's, not the objective events that can be interpreted a million ways by a million people.

 

In a Theocracy, people should be killed for blasphemy. In the same respect, you would agree with me that a person who kidnaps and murders a child should be at least removed from society, if not killed. Change the society and you change justice.

 

When we enjoy the benefits of science and let people think freely, we live in constant war. Sure, it's not as visible to us on the home front, but not seeing it at all is ignorance. It is the freedom of thought that causes the injustices in the world; if everyone held on to the same fundamentals, no one would find a need to kill someone over a fundamental.

 

In theocracy, we will have one faith and know that our comrades are all in agreement with us, the same way that you can talk to someone about how horrible a child kidnapper is and not get a response of "actually, that's not such a bad thing" (which is a disgusting thing to say). There would be no wars if god's will was for men to suffer equally; they would have no one to blame for their misfortune other than their idea of god.

[/quote']

 

The very fact that you think someone killing another and simple disagreement are the same is disgusting. Science is not interpreted differently it is facts that are proven. Religion is always different. I don't care how much you say it, people are going to rebel. In a theocratic civil war there is blood shed. Arguments in our society in America are not wars. The arguments are there to help us choose the best idea. Democracy is progression and theocrats like you should go to the Middle East for a day, and I guaranty you will be waving the American flag.

[EocDragon]

I think too many people don't truly understand communism. In all reality, Communism doesn't really exist, because Communism is just Utopianism in disguise. Communism has never existed because a truly Utopian society has never existed. Communism doesn't deal with money or government, because such things are unecessary in a Communist, or Utopian, society.

 

In theory Communism is the realization of complete moral perfection, as everyone is equal and trivial things like government are unecessary because all the members of the community are working toward the common goal of perfection.

 

To answer your question Horus, you aren't wrong, perhaps just a little foolhardy for believing in a system that contradicts human nature.

[Static]

I think too many people don't truly understand communism. In all reality' date=' Communism doesn't really exist, because Communism is just Utopianism in disguise. Communism has never existed because a truly Utopian society has never existed. Communism doesn't deal with money or government, because such things are unecessary in a Communist, or Utopian, society.

 

In theory Communism is the realization of complete moral perfection, as everyone is equal and trivial things like government are unecessary because all the members of the community are working toward the common goal of perfection.

 

To answer your question Horus, you aren't wrong, perhaps just a little foolhardy for believing in a system that contradicts human nature.

[/quote']

 

The first two paragraphs are correct; however.

 

If we don't dream and stand up for what we believe in, what are we?