=Legendary CardMakers=

[Guest JoshIcy]

Okay now I'm feeling a bit of hostility towards me' date=' and I don't like it! Wanderley should go without explanation, and HP Doom has a [b']natural[/b] talent for making cards, and he naturally helps people find pictures for cards. The only thing you seem to be doing at the moment is naturally pissing me off. No offence to you generally but it feels like your involving me in whatever happened between you and Oleon.

 

One must not assume, for that which he is not knowing of.

And those are a GIVEN for each cardmaker. Until I see something they directly EXCEL at, THAT ISNT part of BEING A MEMBER. I don't see any reason why they should. And you and Oleon aren't helping. If they wanted a word in, they'd say themselves. And know full well to PM me, or at least should.

 

Thanks for disgracing their names. Really... No one gets anywhere with me, unless it's they themselves.

[The Mad Hatter]

So... OK... by informing you of 2 members that are very productive, you... dislike them... you are either insane or have such a fu*king ego that you can't take suggestions... either way I now officially go from having so much respect for you to absolutely 0 respect for you.

[-Griffin]

They excel in the format of images itself' date=' applying their vast knowledge to others, to aid them in card making.

[b']Helping others is a great thing, it should really be the entire point of commenting on a thread. If people aren't doing that, then I think the problem is those who don't help.[/b]

 

They are great souls and great people, who often combine their pics with others, and joyfully share them,

Being a proud member of Written Cards, I'd happily debate with you as to how pictures are nice, but are one of the least important aspects of card design because it doesn't' interact in any way with any other aspect of card design and can be changed at any point without even considering really changing the other aspects, unless a type/attribute change is in order. But either way, I'd rather not get into that right now.

 

while also being regular posters on YCM,

Posting often does not make you a better person. I wouldn't mind seeing a 50 post member in here if they'd clearly deserved it through understanding and such.

 

and only for a soul purpose to make this website a better place.

Again, this should be the standard, not the exception.

 

Whilst you decline them for these solid reason that makes them stand out above many others, so they can just carry on in their own small way, instead of being recognised for the glory they deserve.

I don't know them, but from what you've said, they aren't what Icy is looking for here, just good people who can master the basic design of cards.

[Guest JoshIcy]

So... OK... by informing you of 2 members that are very productive' date=' you... dislike them... you are either insane or have such a fu*king ego that you can't take suggestions... either way I now officially go from having so much respect for you to absolutely 0 respect for you.

[/quote']

 

Ooh lord no. You misread me...

I dislike you, for not allowing them the chance to speak for themselves. As you could have for yourself. And I am taking your suggestions, unfortunately until they speak on their own behalf; I cannot actually implement them can I?

[~Oleon~]

I'm just going to say something before I totally kick off and end up being banned.

 

They are NOT a disgrace. You can ask absoloutely anyone except yourself about them and people would think they are great. You have made me furious now for insulting HP Doom, for he is one of my closest friends on here. So stop thinking of yourself all high and mighty. Because last time you were saying you consistently get 10/10 on your cards, when I have seen them, and saw post saying that your cards were terrible, and then with a strikeout. But it was explained in a strong way, in a swearing value. And thats because people are threatened by you. People are scared that if they don't fully express themselves they are safe, and if they do they get banned. You see yourself as being a regular member, the way you act is not even close. You know what, just forget it. I'm done with this. They should be members for the things they do, and thats that. But I can't be done with arguing with you anymore. Goodbye.

[Guest JoshIcy]

^: All of that is not at all what we're saying...

[~Oleon~]

Yes, but you had called Wanderly and HP Doom a disgrace.

:(:(:(:(

[Guest JoshIcy]

Yes' date=' but you had called Wanderly and HP Doom a disgrace.

:(:(:(:(

[/quote']

 

Way to bite my words.

I said that YOU disgraced their names.

[The Mad Hatter]

So...OK... we try to inform you of better members than yourself... and you say we disgrace them for it... and dislike me... oh OK I understand you now... your full of yourself...

[Guest JoshIcy]

Hmm?

I want them to speak for themselves. And until I hear THEIR word, how can I implement your suggestion? And how is that me being full of myself?

 

EDIT: Wait wait wait.... Are you missing the point entirely? There is no better members. Even Supers are on par with you.

But that discussion is for PM.

[The Mad Hatter]

Even if it isn't, it sounds like it. Wanderley maybe, but HP Doom is a friend, and he wouldn't have said anything unless someone else recommended him, he is too humble. I still no longer have respect for you as a person, but I do as a mod, for one reason, you are no Prince Hunter. For that reason alone I will end this argument now, before I wind up with a warning. Good day. [/better person]

[Guest JoshIcy]

Even if it isn't' date=' it sounds like it. Wanderley maybe, but HP Doom is a friend, and he wouldn't have said anything unless someone else recommended him, he is too humble. I still no longer have respect for you as a person, but I do as a mod, for one reason, you are no Prince Hunter. For that reason alone I will end this argument now, before I wind up with a warning. Good day. [/better person']

 

No no no no no.

You are blaming me for something that I have no control over. And I do apologize for the wording, which I did my best to help you understand.

 

As for those people... Has it ever gotten to your attention that knowing, what I ask, to link those 2 people via PM and ask them to speak on their own behalfs? That would have prevented all this from happening. But, you chose to do this. *claps*

[The Mad Hatter]

I simply retorted to your being angry at me because of whatever happened between you and Oleon. In fact I think the entire reason this thing started was because you and he hate each other, you couldn't stand that he suggested people. [/last word]

[Guest JoshIcy]

Lol. Honestly? I forgot my quarrel with Oleon. And I did listen. And I hate no one, nor him. So we had a bicker? And what? We're people. Friends till the end.

 

I just had nothing to say, as it will add weight when those people post.

[The Mad Hatter]

I wasn't truthful, Oleon informed me of some of what happened, and what you said at the end, "Apology not accepted.

People like you make me hate helping friends. Which is the sole reason I became a moderator, and why it means nothing to me as it would someone else.".

[Guest JoshIcy]

I wasn't truthful' date=' Oleon informed me of some of what happened, and what you said at the end, "Apology not accepted.

People like you make me hate helping friends. Which is the sole reason I became a moderator, and why it means nothing to me as it would someone else.".

[/quote']

 

If I recall correctly, he did belittle me for trying to do a great thing.

 

Adding unnecessary pressure. Am I at fault for taking it personally? And it is true, I became a moderator because J-Max needed my help. But when people belittle me for that, of course I'm gonna take it personally. And I'm always apologizing.

 

I slipped up and got mad, despite my vain attempts. Why take it that way? I'm a person too. And I never once treated him differently outside that convo, and even now I wouldn't.

[The Mad Hatter]

I wasn't truthful' date=' Oleon informed me of some of what happened, and what you said at the end, "Apology not accepted.

People like you make me hate helping friends. Which is the sole reason I became a moderator, and why it means nothing to me as it would someone else.".

[/quote']

 

If I recall correctly, he did belittle me for trying to do a great thing.

 

Adding unnecessary pressure. Am I at fault for taking it personally? And it is true, I became a moderator because J-Max needed my help. But when people belittle me for that, of course I'm gonna take it personally. And I'm always apologizing.

 

I slipped up and got mad, despite my vain attempts. Why take it that way? I'm a person too. And I never once treated him differently outside that convo, and even now I wouldn't.

He seemed to think differently.

[Demon Eyes Kyo]

I never knew =Legendary CardMakers=Was a fight thread, Less fighting more YCM'ing please & What's the fight about?:clueless:

[-Griffin]

The fight is about some people recommending people to be LCMs, Icy saying that they should ask themselves instead of being recommended, the recommenders saying Icy was angry, Icy saying he wasn't, and then squabbling back and forth over the fact that everything Icy said was apparently bias/angry/wrong and a lot of misinterpretation on the recommenders side

---

Right then.

Icy's asked me to start a discussion about card balance, or an aspect of it at least. He also asked me to say:

"Anyone who participates in this discussion and is not an LCM, will have their posts deleted. There is a reason for this, which will not be elaborate at this time." and "If any other discussion is taking place, members are free to comment on those, as normal."

 

Let me first do a really quick explanation of how I interpret card design:

I first find that a card is good or bad based on three main aspects:

1) How original/interesting the card is

2) How the card impacts the game (includes balance)

3) How fun the card is to play (includes pictures, names, and anything else that makes it "fun".)

 

As a LCM, my specialty is the second point. What I've been asked to talk about here is that a cards balance is irrelevant when you aren't considering which format is being impacted and, as part of that, which cards it interacts with.

When you release a card, people have no choice but to assume you intend for it to be released in advanced format TCG, at this time. If it's something different, you have to say, because it makes a big difference.

If you're releasing a monster in the TCG, it will almost always be more effective with 1400 ATK than 1500, and either would be better than 1600. Why? Because over 1500, it can't be searched by things such as Giant Rat and Mystic Tomato, and below 1500, it cannot be hit by Bottomless Trap Hole.

If you think, "those are individual cards that have nothing to do with mine and aren't important", you're dead wrong and missing the main point of balance. Bottomless is a part of the game - almost in the same way that the number of Normal Summons per turn is. Almost all competitive players will use two, and many non competitive players will too. Any facedown has a good chance of being Bottomless and being able to avoid it or not is actually a major and entirely viable advantage a card can have.

On the other hand - if you're releasing cards to be released in the TCG for a format without a banlist, Judgement Dragon would be called extremely underpowered for not contributing to, or preventing, any First Turn Kills, which are extremely easy to use in a no-list environment.

The YCCG, a format of entirely custom cards, tends to have a much lower power level. If, for example, Batterymen were released there, they would probably completely dominate the meta because cards there are typically slower and weaker, with higher costs or harder requirements.

In short; a card is balanced just as much by the format as by its own effect. Strong cards can be weak in insane formats and weak cards usable in others.

 

Icy recently linked me to a thread with a synchro. This synchro had a specific tuner, but the tuner wasn't posted. This makes the synchro almost entirely unjudgable on the point of balance. It's possible that the tuner was the same level as the synchro, and level-altering cards were needed to Summon it? That would make it a much harder card to summon and less useful. If it was level 7, and the tuner was level 2, then it would even then be less effective than a level 3 tuner, since level 4 monsters will be on the field to Summon it much more often.

 

It's these things that are the main balancing factors of a card. If something is broken to the point that it will probably win entire games by itself, then fair enough, you can comment on that and say the entire design of it is broken, such as if a monster's effect was, "discard this card to inflict 8000 damage to your opponent's Life Points." But other than these extreme situations, don't consider cards without considering those they interact with.

[Limited Edition KING]

Icy recently linked me to a thread with a synchro. This synchro had a specific tuner' date=' but the tuner wasn't posted.

[/quote']

 

Yeah that synchro was probably most likely to be mine but I have posted the tuner monster on the post. =\

[Agaming]

Name: Dark Heart

Expertise: Card Maker Wars and AoC

[Snitch]

Hmm? Oh, seems I stepped into the argue-with-someone-over-a-whole-page thread. I was looking for LCM.

 

Never mind! ;D

[Wanderley]

I loled at the discussion :D

 

it is pointless

if HP Doom, Alcander or me would like to join we should write it down and not other members

i think that is the point what Icy means the whole time

 

BTW it is Icys decision who he will invite and who is a LCM in his eyes ;)

 

but thanks to the members who think that I'm a LCM

[Deustodo]

[align=center]

Deustodo

Expertise: Creator of new kind of Cards and Card Making.[/align]

[align=center]
Deustodo
[img=http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/uploads/avatars/avatar_363746.png]
Expertise: Creator of new kind of Cards and Card Making.[/align]

[Guest JoshIcy]

Griffin does make a very good and well educated point. But one has to remember, and you can thank Jolta for this ideal, (omg ._.)... That if a User, while does not contribute to the whole cards balance. You can default it, to a Generic Summoning requirements.

 

Though this is far from good practice, and should seldom be done, it does give the CardMaker the benefit of the doubt.