Tsukuyomi

[Tronta]

Unbannable?

 

it was apparently involved in a psuedo lock, but timeseal is banned. so you can abuse a few cards, sure, but its just a reusable book of moon.

what does ycm think?

[Psycho Shocker Android]

You can still recycle drastic drop off, drop off and solemn judgment with mask of darkness. And kill 1 card every turn with ryko. There's so many things you can do with her I would just keep her banned.

[Tronta]

even if you recycled dropoff with mask of darkness, they still have cards in hand, field and grave.

its barely a lock.

 

and who's going to let the ryko stay there in the first place? it's just running like a swarm of scarabs then, and that card is at 3 without anyone running it or caring. granted it says flip summon rather than flip, but that really matters when it's attacked, in which case ryko would be killed anyways, breaking any such loop.

 

reusing solemn is meh. it used to be at 3 and it wasnt a huge problem. if they're looping solemn they'll likely die pretty soon from lp over-expenditure.

 

 

its just a reusable, non-quickplay book of moon that costs your normal summon. big deal.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

even if you recycled dropoff with mask of darkness' date=' they still have cards in hand, field and grave.

its barely a lock.

[b']Unban yata then?[/b]

and who's going to let the ryko stay there in the first place? it's just running like a swarm of scarabs then, and that card is at 3 without anyone running it or caring. granted it says flip summon rather than flip, but that really matters when it's attacked, in which case ryko would be killed anyways, breaking any such loop.

You can kill S/T and monsters with ryko and you draw 1 card each turn that you can use to protect ryko. This leads to a lock.

reusing solemn is meh. it used to be at 3 and it wasnt a huge problem. if they're looping solemn they'll likely die pretty soon from lp over-expenditure.

You draw 1 card but I counter with solemn paying half of my LP. I recycle solemn attack you for 1100. Repeat for 8 turns then you lose and I still have 32 LP.

 

its just a reusable, non-quickplay book of moon that costs your normal summon. big deal.

It's technically a 2 card lock when your opponent is top decking compare to the 1 card yata lock.

 

I used to play this back in the chaos era. I managed to get to a point where my opponent could have picked any card from his deck instead of drawing and still lose. I could take care of any single copy of every existing card in the game. We were both running a similar chaos deck but I managed to "Tsuku-Lock" him. It wouldn't be hard to acheive this today either.

[Great Unclean One: VK]

I say limit her.

 

Let's see what happens.

 

She can create locks so she's bannable, but she comes at a huge cost, your normal summon.

[daboss144]

I say limit her.

 

Let's see what happens.

 

She can create locks so she's bannable' date=' but she comes at a huge cost, your normal summon.

[/quote']

 

In todays meta, with all these swarming monsters it would be broken. Picture this: 1st turn, Player uses COTLB to search lumina, milling an LS monster (any of them). Use lumina's effect, summon a monster. Next turn, player uses lumina to summon ehren, then uses TSUKOYOMI. BROKEN

[Great Unclean One: VK]

I say limit her.

 

Let's see what happens.

 

She can create locks so she's bannable' date=' but she comes at a huge cost, your normal summon.

[/quote']

 

In todays meta, with all these swarming monsters it would be broken. Picture this: 1st turn, Player uses COTLB to search lumina, milling an LS monster (any of them). Use lumina's effect, summon a monster. Next turn, player uses lumina to summon ehren, then uses TSUKOYOMI. BROKEN

 

 

Well...funk.

 

I guess Tsukuyomi is to wait for another day til being limited.

[daboss144]

I say limit her.

 

Let's see what happens.

 

She can create locks so she's bannable' date=' but she comes at a huge cost, your normal summon.

[/quote']

 

In todays meta, with all these swarming monsters it would be broken. Picture this: 1st turn, Player uses COTLB to search lumina, milling an LS monster (any of them). Use lumina's effect, summon a monster. Next turn, player uses lumina to summon ehren, then uses TSUKOYOMI. BROKEN

 

 

Well...f***.

 

I guess Tsukuyomi is to wait for another day til being limited.

 

Probably a lot longer, it's probably never coming back.

[JG.]

Well, I'd almost say Limit her for a single List, see what happens. Too much abuse, ban her again, quite simple.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

It actually looks like it can be Unlimited right now. Further play testing is required.

[JG.]

It actually looks like it can be Unlimited right now. Further play testing is required.

 

IMO, it's still too abusable to be Unlimited.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

It actually looks like it can be Unlimited right now. Further play testing is required.

 

IMO' date=' it's still too abusable to be Unlimited.

[/quote']

 

How could it being at 3 allow it to be more abusive than being at 1? You can still realistically only play 1 at a time.

[Toffee.]

It actually looks like it can be Unlimited right now. Further play testing is required.

 

IMO' date=' it's still too abusable to be Unlimited.

[/quote']

 

How could it being at 3 allow it to be more abusive than being at 1? You can still realistically only play 1 at a time.

 

Add to it, you have to use up your Normal Summon to re-use Book of Moon.

And Solemn is @1 currently, so any "locks" with it would be slower then you think.

 

Arm says put this card @3, and see what happens to the Meta.

[Fraz]

Even if there's a lock involving her, it takes like 4 cards and it's very situational and easy to break. I'd say it's a lock which isn't bad for the game.

[Toffee.]

it takes like 4 cards and it's very situational and easy to break.

 

by "situational", wouldnt it depend on the build?

 

Actually, nvmd. Thats beside the point

[Tronta]

situational as in: putting your opponent in topdecking, then using tsuko, mask and solemn/dropoff/drasticdropoff to funk him up.

that's one lock, and its very situational, and still 3 cards: one of which needs to be flipped and one which needs to be set.

 

yata is still gamebreaking because of cards like neo-daed and more commonly norleras. also, yata is a baka.

 

and reusing ryko and all that jank is still possible via books. yet it isnt done. that's because its slow and an ineffective way to kill. you know what works better? judgment dragon. thats a free nuke-the-field every turn. and since monster destruction doesnt exist in the fictitious meta you're imagining, that's a one card lock.

that aside, you're assuming they dont draw a spell that can help, a monster that can run over ryko, or a trap that's chainable. a large assumption to make, given that what i've listed is every card in most meta level decks. furthermore you assume they don't have a graveyard to help them. this is the primary difference between then and now. we have graveyard support now. mezuki, plague, wyvern, shell, treeeeeborn. it's not hard to make do.

 

 

 

i'm still trying to figure out daboss's example, actually.

it's basically a lightsworn opening hand, but with a tsukuyomi to make ehren useful. how is this broken? book of moon exists? and doesnt cost your normal summon?

 

a psuedo lock isnt terrible for this game. i mean, we already have simorgh-fragrance, and poc-norleras-wyvern.

and heraklinos.

 

i dont really get your beef.

 

i'd argue she could be limited, and see how it affects the game.

[ihop]

Limited.

It's hardly banworthy anymore.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

situational as in: putting your opponent in topdecking' date=' then using tsuko, mask and solemn/dropoff/drasticdropoff to f*** him up.

that's one lock, and its very situational, and still 3 cards: one of which needs to be flipped and one which needs to be set.

[b']You really only need tsuku and mask because drastic/solemn should already be in the grave after you traded it for one of your opponent's card in the process. And putting your opponent in top deck mode isn't hard when you add the lock into an anti meta deck with suff like royal oppression/dimensional fissure that makes half of the cards your opponent is running dead.[/b]

yata is still gamebreaking because of cards like neo-daed and more commonly norleras. also, yata is a fa****.

Yata is just easier to set up.

and reusing ryko and all that jank is still possible via books. You don't have infinite books and yes some people reuse their flips with books just look at morphing jar in flip trolls yet it isnt done. that's because its slow and an ineffective way to kill. you know what works better? judgment dragon. thats a free nuke-the-field every turn. and since monster destruction doesnt exist in the fictitious meta you're imagining, That's because JD doesn't stop smashing ground like drastic drop off or solemn so he's not able to lock. that's a one card lock.

that aside, you're assuming they dont draw a spell that can help, a monster that can run over ryko, or a trap that's chainable OK maybe it's not a 100% lock, but you need to hit something very specific to get around ryko. By the time you get an answer, it doesn't mean your opponent won't have drawn something to counter it. Let's say before you draw a monster I drew BTH or BoM or Trap Hole or Mirror Force you're still screwed. Then I get another draw that can counter stuff, it's a never ending cycle.. a large assumption to make, given that what i've listed is every card in most meta level decks. furthermore you assume they don't have a graveyard to help them. this is the primary difference between then and now. we have graveyard support now. mezuki, plague, wyvern, shell, treeeeeborn. it's not hard to make do.

It's the same thing with yata. You can stop a yata lock with mezuki malicious treeborn and yet it's still banworthy. If you're adding a difficulty by adding mezuki I can just add Kycoo or dimensional fissure to the lock and it still works.

 

 

i'm still trying to figure out daboss's example, actually.

it's basically a lightsworn opening hand, but with a tsukuyomi to make ehren useful. how is this broken? book of moon exists? and doesnt cost your normal summon? Me too you have an infinite way to turn your opponent's monster to defense with Spirit Burner and yet nobody's playing that.

 

a psuedo lock isnt terrible for this game. i mean, we already have simorgh-fragrance, and poc-norleras-wyvern.

and heraklinos.

 

i dont really get your beef.

 

i'd argue she could be limited, and see how it affects the game. Right now she'd probably have no impact because it's slow to set up, but on a good list she should be banned.

[Tronta]

i still disagree. those are situational locks, and many other such psuedo locks exist already in this game, like simorgh fragrance, or even double marauding captains. simple partial locks.

let me try to perfect the lock you're envisioning. i'm ignoring the ryko example, partially because that would kill you eventually (mill) and you wouldnt be dealing much damage because you're spending your normal summon every turn on tsuku. also, because if you draw any monster you can break said lock.

 

the mask-drastic-tsuku lock is a better example. this is a 3card card lock that theoretically stops all drawing. it does nothing about the hand though, and i'm going to assume no cards exist that can grab themselves from the grave, because that would suck and aside from soul release you cant do much about it.

 

so, how to nuke a hand of any size? norleras. so lets see.

foolish norleras, poc remove him, nuke field and hand.

err. hold on. maybe theres another way....

 

no... i got nothing.

how can you set up a less-than-5-card perfect lock? otherwise i dont think it's a big deal.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

You see you just need to chip away all the cards your opponent has one by one. Then if you happen to have tsukuyomi, you lock your opponent. It's not hard to do because mask of darkness is a good card, drastic drop off is always a 1 for 1, solemn is godly and tsukuyomi is very strong. So you're basically running a deck full of good cards that can lock your opponent. Like I said earlier if you run this in an anti meta deck you don't even need to get rid of all the cards your opponent has. You just need to make them dead. You can still perform a yata lock on your opponent if he has a hand of: raigeki, dark hole, heavy storm and harpie's feather duster, because none of those cards can stop the lock. It's exactly what you need to do with tsukuyomi.

[Tronta]

you're assuming an anti-meta deck with no monsters in it, or at least in hand.

we're still really situational here.

 

chip away one by one? how? zaloog? thestalos? dropping off will keep it at one for one? how are you supposed to gain the advantage necessary?

you're imagining this unlikely situation and using it as a reason to legitimize the banning of this card. honestly with moon and eclipse at 3 each, you can pull this same combo /now/ and still be able to normal summon monsters to beat your opponent down.

ooooo scary, this is the new meta isnt it!

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Should be unlimited. There is no reason for it to be banned.