[5 cards] DME says Ladybugs are broken

[-Griffin]

They're intended to be a powerful set, but according to DME, these 5 cards are the most broken, format-defining cards around, or something. They won't stop complaining about broken-ness. It's perfectly possible I got this horribly wrong, but I'd like your guy's opinions.

 

Marine Ladybug WATER

*

[insect/Effect]

Once per turn, during your Standby Phase, you can reveal this card in your hand to return a card from your Graveyard to your Deck. If you do this, this card remains revealed while it is in your hand, until the End Phase.

ATK/ 0 DEF/ 0

 

Obsidian Ladybug DARK

*

[insect/Effect]

Once per turn, during your Standby Phase, you can reveal this card in your hand to remove from play 1 card in your opponent’s Graveyard. If you do this, this card remains revealed while it is in your hand, until the End Phase.

ATK/ 0 DEF/ 0

 

Crimson Ladybug FIRE

*

[insect/Effect]

Once per turn, during your Standby Phase, you can reveal this card in your hand to increase the ATK of 1 monster you control by 500 until the End Phase of this turn. If you do this, this card remains revealed while it is in your hand, until the End Phase.

ATK/ 0 DEF/ 0

 

Ladybugs of the Rainbow

[Magic Card ]

Return 1 card from your hand to the top of your Deck and reveal any number of "Ladybug" cards in your hand. Destroy cards on the field equal to the number of "Ladybug" cards revealed by this effect.

 

Ladybug Swarm

[Magic Card ]

Discard 1 "Ladybug" card, add 2 "Ladybug" cards from your Deck to your hand with a name different to the discarded card.

[.dek]

I know Golden Ladybug, but what are the others?

[-Griffin]

These 5.

[JLP1701]

These are awesome! I always thought they should make more. The two spells are absolutely rediculously good. Definitely broken.

[Bringerofcake]

I'm thinking they're calling broke because of the somewhat decent searchability and returnability for Ladybugs combined with Rainbow. I'm not sure if I'm right, but that's as I see it.

 

DME?

[-Griffin]

Yeah, it didn't seem too dangerous too search and return something that kept cutting off your draws and required you to run mediocre monsters (because really, you'd have to run as many Ladybugs as possible to pull off Rainbow and get advantage effectively. They might nice tech, but a Deck full of them feels lacking.)

 

Duel Monsters Expert.

[JLP1701]

The way I see it is that you really don't need more than two Ladybugs to effectively use Rainbow. After all, people don't usually set too many spells or traps to begin with (unless their really confident in the cards they set) and monsters will usually be destroyed quickly either by other monsters or spells and traps. So just searching two ladybugs and playing Rainbow can build a respectable advantage, considering you have a good ability to follow up.

 

In short...Rainbow is extremely usable and extremely good.

[-Griffin]

So... a +0 is advantage now?

In addition to the cost of having Ladybugs, usually half-dead cards, in your hand compared to what you could be running.

 

I'm not saying it isn't good, but tier 0? =/

[JLP1701]

Not tier 0. Lets imagine that you open with a Ladybug, Swarm Rainbow, and two other random cards.

 

Your opponent goes first and pulls of an interesting combo resulting in a synchro summon of something like Goyo Guardian and then sets two spell or trap cards.

 

You draw a monster like thunder king rai oh.

You could play Swarm to grab 2 Crimson Ladybug while discarding the Ladybug in your hand. Play Rainbow to take out the two spell or traps. Then you can freely summon Rai Oh, activate both Crimson Ladybugs to increase his attack by 1000! He then takes out Goyo and you still have 2 Crimson Ladybugs and another card in your hand which could be a helpful spell or trap.

 

So that's one reason that the spells and Crimson Ladybug are broken. In that situation, you have a bonus 1000 attack every turn! Broken!

 

Marine Ladybug returns ANY CARD to the deck!!! Super Broken! That recycles any amazing card EVERY TURN!!! Infinite Mirror Force? Yes, please!

 

The Beauty of these cards are that they don't need to be strong since they never leave your hand! So you get good effects every turn. Even if the effect itself isn't the most impressive thing, the fact that it's always at your disposal is absolutely amazing!

 

These cards are extremely good! Maybe not the best, but way better then tier 0.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

[Bringerofcake]

Griffin, if I may...

Not tier 0. Lets imagine that you open with a Ladybug' date=' Swarm Rainbow, and two other random cards.

 

Your opponent goes first and pulls of an interesting combo resulting in a synchro summon of something like Goyo Guardian and then sets two spell or trap cards.

 

You draw a monster like thunder king rai oh.

You could play Swarm to grab 2 Crimson Ladybug while discarding the Ladybug in your hand. Play Rainbow to take out the two spell or traps. Then you can freely summon Rai Oh, activate both Crimson Ladybugs to increase his attack by 1000! He then takes out Goyo and you still have 2 Crimson Ladybugs and another card in your hand which [b']could be[/b] a helpful spell or trap.

 

Those words are bolded for a reason.

 

So that's one reason that the spells and Crimson Ladybug are broken. In that situation, you have a bonus 1000 attack every turn! Broken!

 

And I suppose Core Overclock is banworthy by that logic?

 

Marine Ladybug returns ANY CARD to the deck!!! Super Broken! That recycles any amazing card EVERY TURN!!! Infinite Mirror Force? Yes, please!

 

This is from your Graveyard to your deck, with a lesser probability of drawing it. Plus, many meta decks LIKE having things in the Grave.

 

The Beauty of these cards are that they don't need to be strong since they never leave your hand! So you get good effects every turn. Even if the effect itself isn't the most impressive thing, the fact that it's always at your disposal is absolutely amazing!

 

I have Card Trader at my disposal every turn. That's pretty amazing too. /sarcasm

Just because you have constant effects does not mean that they are broken effects.

 

These cards are extremely good! Maybe not the best, but way better then tier 0.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

 

And the bolded is mine, as well as:

The problem is that your argument is based off of hypotheticals. The thing about the meta is that it's ready to take on these sort of threats. You Summon your Rai-oh? Bottomless. You hit my 2 facedowns? Starlight Road says otherwise. Not to mention chainables, and other such cards.

 

Also, teched D.D. Designator kills the pesky bugs.

[JLP1701]

 

The problem is that your argument is based off of hypotheticals. The thing about the meta is that it's ready to take on these sort of threats. You Summon your Rai-oh? Bottomless. You hit my 2 facedowns? Starlight Road says otherwise. Not to mention chainables' date=' and other such cards.

 

Also, teched D.D. Designator kills the pesky bugs.

[/quote']

 

Yes they are hypotheticals, but your counters are also hypotheticals. Duels don't always go according to plan. Even meta decks can draw absolutely dead hands.

 

Yes, core overclock is similar to crimson ladybug, but core overclock is easily destroyed and supports an archtype that is difficult to use in the first place. Ladybugs can support any deck they're in if used correctly. Cards in the hand are harder to hit. And even if someone is running D.D. Designator, I'd much rather them hit my Ladybugs than some other card that is more important to my next play.

 

Just because there are counters to cards, doesn't mean they're not broken. After all, all the broken blackwings or gladiator beasts can't do much against Royal Oppression, yet they are still considered meta.

 

Maybe I am going a little to far by saying they're broken, but I do feel that they are really good cards, and the searchability is a nice tool for thinning the deck.

[-Griffin]

For Crimson, you must also start the turn with a monster face-up, far from a guarantee, especially when clogging your Deck with Ladybugs, and you spend to cards in your hand to get 1000 ATK, which most players would call horrible.

 

And you really did prove there, JLP, that you don't know quite what you're talking about. Firstly, Blackwings and Glads aren't the current 'broken' things and secondly Blackwings always use 2 Oppression and I've seen it in Glads because both can play around it.

 

Your first hypothetical is outright wrong. Standby is before the Main Phase.

 

1000 ATK every turn is broken?

800 ATK to all monsters, every turn, in 1 card, including on your opponent's turn and the turn they are Summoned. It's called Solidarity. It isn't ever called broken, just good.

 

Returning things to your Deck is that useful now? I suppose a 1 in 30 chance of Mirror Force is alright, but you have to be a really cheating shuffler to get it every turn. It's really designed to help toolboxes by returning Rats/ect.

 

And "don't need to be strong"? I suppose that's like saying Honest would be just as useful with 0/0. It wouldn't. Walling a turn with Honest or poking 1100 and jumping back to your hand is a good play. Just because "hit stuff" isn't its main use doesn't mean 0/0 stops being a drawback.

[JLP1701]

Alright. I'm wrong.

 

I saw some cards i liked and got a little too excited. I only read crimson once and forgot that it was Standby phase. I thought it was main phase since that would make more sense.

 

I still think Marine is good because even though you won't draw the card you return right away, you'll get more use out of that card than you would normally, and for no cost other than having it in your hand.

 

So maybe Glads and Blackwings aren't "Broken" right now, but they're still good and have plenty of broken cards. And I personally just don't like oppression in those decks to begin with. Doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about, that's just how I feel.

 

I did go a little overboard saying they're broken, but I do feel that they have some potential that could be really useful when used correctly.