California Measure 19 Fails

[Icy]

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1289137881' post='4768265']
How about we compromise. Weed is ok, but only in your own home so other people don't have to smell it? [/serious]
[/quote]

If children are not present, I will admit the smell but not the act or plant's existence. But if your house stains of it, you are offending the Guests you may have over as well. (Seriously, for me there's like a 3 Day Period for the scent to wash off, a day and a half if you shower well).

And Genzo, I've been working with a few people to dilute my hatred to pose a logical argument for you "... So yeah.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1289110150' post='4767902']
Well let's see the pros to this; more space in jails for the people that need to go there, increase sales in economy, saves more trees, decreases drug wars, less addicting way to relieve stress than alcohol.[b] Cons; oops I can't find any.[/b]
[/quote]
Because having kids showing up to school high is a good thing.



Scientific fact that it impairs vision (and may cause hallucinations/mood swings) so smoking and driving would lead to an increase in fatal crashes. Once again people compare it to alcohol and how it doesn't impair you as much....well we tried to ban alcohol once remember? It failed.

Trying to take something away it harder than keeping something away.

[Dark]

[i]Because having kids showing up to school high is a good thing.[/i]

Many schools have a policy that showing up drink is not acceptable, and could get you suspended.

Moreover, marijuana will probably have an age limit on it, but hopefully not as stupid as drinking=21. So showing up to school high means... you are illegal.

Look, either ban both cigarettes and alcohol [i]and then[/i] talk about marijuana, or legalize them all.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Yeah, students can show up to school high-- newsflash, this happens even with it illegal. It would likely be illegal for a young person to use it, so its not like legalizing it would change the legal status of a student coming to school high.

[CrabHelmet]

Personally, I believe that anything that I think smells bad should be banned. And yet cafeteria food remains legal.

[Icy]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289170693' post='4770086']
Yeah, students can show up to school high-- newsflash, this happens even with it illegal. It would likely be illegal for a young person to use it, so its not like legalizing it would change the legal status of a student coming to school high.
[/quote]

That doesn't justify it. And anyone with a good nose or eyes can detect if a person is "high", no hard they try and hide it. And have such students evicted from the school campus upon noticing it. (Many of them live miles away, but I showed no mercy for said act). Including a few being sent to Jail upon detection of it on their person.

If anything it'd just make school a much more paranoid place.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

[quote name='Mystic Keeper' timestamp='1289111060' post='4767922']
I don't think the voters are dumb, just fearful that legal weed would 100% influence the community. And instead of looking at the positives, they only see the fears they still have.
[/quote]
that's because a lot of teens are hypocrites because they're tuahgt their parents misguided views. My world studies teacher gave me a detention putting the peace version of the swastika on my paper and called me a racist.

[Abs0lute]

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=4481916

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='JoshIcy' timestamp='1289172914' post='4770226']
That doesn't justify it. And anyone with a good nose or eyes can detect if a person is "high", no hard they try and hide it. And have such students evicted from the school campus upon noticing it. (Many of them live miles away, but I showed no mercy for said act). Including a few being sent to Jail upon detection of it on their person.

If anything it'd just make school a much more paranoid place.
[/quote]
And this is different from the current state of things how?

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289170368' post='4770063']
[i]Because having kids showing up to school high is a good thing.[/i]

Many schools have a policy that showing up drink is not acceptable, and could get you suspended.

Moreover, marijuana will probably have an age limit on it, but hopefully not as stupid as drinking=21. So showing up to school high means... you are illegal.

Look, either ban both cigarettes and alcohol [i]and then[/i] talk about marijuana, or legalize them all.
[/quote]


[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289170693' post='4770086']
Yeah, students can show up to school high-- newsflash, this happens even with it illegal. It would likely be illegal for a young person to use it, so its not like legalizing it would change the legal status of a student coming to school high.
[/quote]

Both these quotes have forgotten that legalizing it would increase the ease of access for kids. To Dark....if any schools are like my high school then being illegal won't stop anything. =/

[Icy]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289174423' post='4770304']
And this is different from the current state of things how?
[/quote]

I don't know how your schools are, but the one's here are extremely relaxed (possibly due to environmental things). And that would just make school a horrid place to learn. As bad as people say it is now.

[CrabHelmet]

Marijuana illegal for adults and illegal for kids = everything's fine.
Marijuana legal for adults and illegal for kids = OMG THINK OF THE CHILDRANS

I love YCM logic.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1289174649' post='4770317']
Both these quotes have forgotten that legalizing it would increase the ease of access for kids. To Dark....if any schools are like my high school then being illegal won't stop anything. =/
[/quote]
Legalizing it would [i]decrease[/i] access to kids. Right now a kid has as good of chances as an adult to get ahold of it if they really want to. If it were legal and regulated then it would be harder because they'd have to get it through legitimate channels. Where I am its easier for a kid to get pot than booze, because the pot is just floating around while the alcohol requires you to go to an actual store and show ID.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289175874' post='4770369']
Legalizing it would [i]decrease[/i] access to kids. Right now a kid has as good of chances as an adult to get ahold of it if they really want to. If it were legal and regulated then it would be harder because they'd have to get it through legitimate channels. Where I am its easier for a kid to get pot than booze, because the pot is just floating around while the alcohol requires you to go to an actual store and show ID.
[/quote]
Kids ask irresponsible parents (or adults) for booze and get it.....you don't think the same would happen with pot? Also adults could still illegally sell it to kids for profit. (that's what I'd do) =/

[quote=Crab Helmet]
Marijuana illegal for adults and illegal for kids = everything's fine.
Marijuana legal for adults and illegal for kids = OMG THINK OF THE CHILDRANS

I love YCM logic.[/quote]

I think it'd be a good idea in the long run but its the short run that makes me want it to stay the same.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1289177563' post='4770451']
Kids ask irresponsible parents (or adults) for booze and get it.....you don't think the same would happen with pot? Also adults could still illegally sell it to kids for profit. (that's what I'd do) =/
[/quote]
So basically... you fear marijuana being the same as alcohol? Unless you think alcohol should be banned, that isn't a sound reason for banning pot.

[Dark]

And we've banned alcohol before, to no avail.

Also, do realize that even when dealing with children, alcohol is more damaging than marijuana.

[i]Both these quotes have forgotten that legalizing it would increase the ease of access for kids. To Dark....if any schools are like my high school then being illegal won't stop anything. =/ [/i]

Okay, so how do you justify alcohol and cigarettes being legal? Surely if you walk into school drunk or high (on cigarettes), nothing will happen. So then that is a problem with your school, not an argument against marijuana.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289179819' post='4770548']
So basically... you fear marijuana being the same as alcohol? Unless you think alcohol should be banned, that isn't a sound reason for banning pot.
[/quote]

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1289177563' post='4770451']
I think it'd be a good idea in the long run but its the short run that makes me want it to stay the same.
[/quote]

When you say same as alcohol do you mean ease of access for under-aged people? If so then yes, that is ONE reason.

[Dark]

His point was that you fear marijuana being easily accessible to little kids. Two problems. One, cigarettes and alcohol are also easily accessible to little kids, so why don't you deal with that first before making that argument against marijuana? Two, legalizing something means that it is less bad-ass to use it. Case and point, once you turn twenty-one, you are less prone to feeling an urge to drink, since it's legal.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289180245' post='4770576']
His point was that you fear marijuana being easily accessible to little kids. Two problems. One, cigarettes and alcohol are also easily accessible to little kids, so why don't you deal with that first before making that argument against marijuana? Two, legalizing something means that it is less bad-ass to use it. Case and point, once you turn twenty-one, you are less prone to feeling an urge to drink, since it's legal.
[/quote]

@1: My priority would be to keep something illegal that's been put to vote recently, then to worry about the more difficult task of making something illegal.

@2: I'm in college and I don't see any 21 year olds who are less prone to drink. =/


I probably sound like a kill joy but these are my views.....I do, however, understand where you guys are coming from.

[Dark]

That makes no sense. We've established that marijuana is less lethal than alcohol and cigarettes. So if you are going to allow little kids to be corrupted with alcohol and cigarettes, why not finish off the trio and let them be corrupted with marijuana? The logic that we should ban marijuana because it is a "bad drug" is bullshit. You've banned the least lethal of the three, and the other two are perfectly fine? It makes no logical sense, but what do I expect from these supposed "twelve-year-olds" in California?

There was a psychological test done (if I can find the link, wonderful) that once something becomes legal (such as drinking at twenty-one), people are less likely to partake in those activities. Right now, since drinking is illegal to me, it seems a lot more bad-ass to have a shot, and I have more urge to do it. But when I turn twenty-one, it's always an available option, and I won't think much of it. So if marijuana was legal to me right now, there is nothing saying I [i]would[/i] smoke it, but I'd be less prone to go out and smoke because that option will always be available.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289181355' post='4770647']
That makes no sense. We've established that marijuana is less lethal than alcohol and cigarettes. So if you are going to allow little kids to be corrupted with alcohol and cigarettes, why not finish off the trio and let them be corrupted with marijuana? The logic that we should ban marijuana because it is a "bad drug" is bullshit. You've banned the least lethal of the three, and the other two are perfectly fine? It makes no logical sense, but what do I expect from these supposed "twelve-year-olds" in California?

There was a psychological test done (if I can find the link, wonderful) that once something becomes legal (such as drinking at twenty-one), people are less likely to partake in those activities. Right now, since drinking is illegal to me, it seems a lot more bad-ass to have a shot, and I have more urge to do it. But when I turn twenty-one, it's always an available option, and I won't think much of it. So if marijuana was legal to me right now, there is nothing saying I [i]would[/i] smoke it, but I'd be less prone to go out and smoke because that option will always be available.
[/quote]

I understand it's less lethal than alcohol (need proof for cigarettes) but allowing people to have something because it's "less lethal" just doesn't seem appropriate. I do understand (and believe) your second point about wanting something more if you can't have it....but for things like this I think that reaching 21 causes people to go overboard on alcohol and end up in trouble, jail, dead, or killing someone else. From my own experience I view marijuana the same way.

What makes no since is how you can say "marijuana is less lethal than alcohol and cigarettes. So if you are going to allow little kids to be corrupted with alcohol and cigarettes, why not finish off the trio". I can't find logic in that.

[Dark]

Your logic is that you are afraid that little kids will get access to marijuana. Little kids already have access to alcohol and cigarettes. Why are you worrying about them getting access to something that is basically harmless when they already have access to potentially life-threatening items?

I'm pretty sure your logic is that "marijuana is bad, let's keep it banned", which is fine, but then you say that cigarettes and alcohol are too tough to ban. Which doesn't make sense.

[Tentacruel]

Actually, it does. You see, alcohol and cigarettes have already been legal for a while, so banning them would be VERY BAD, due to their addictive nature. Pot however......


I got nothing. LEGALIZE IT NAO!

[GenzoTheHarpist]

[quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1289182294' post='4770682']
I understand it's less lethal than alcohol (need proof for cigarettes) but allowing people to have something because it's "less lethal" just doesn't seem appropriate. I do understand (and believe) your second point about wanting something more if you can't have it....but for things like this I think that reaching 21 causes people to go overboard on alcohol and end up in trouble, jail, dead, or killing someone else. From my own experience I view marijuana the same way.

What makes no since is how you can say "marijuana is less lethal than alcohol and cigarettes. So if you are going to allow little kids to be corrupted with alcohol and cigarettes, why not finish off the trio". I can't find logic in that.
[/quote]
The logic is that our laws should have internal consistency. If we have three substances that are equally (lets say) bad, it is [i]ridiculous[/i] to claim that one should be banned and the other two legal, because they are identical. Since marijuana is even less lethal than the other two, it being banned is actually more ridiculous than even that.

Why should, of things that are more lethal, and things that are less lethal, should we ban the less dangerous, and legalize the more dangerous? That's the opposite of what is logical.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289184215' post='4770777']
I'm pretty sure your logic is that "marijuana is bad, let's keep it banned", which is fine, but then you say that cigarettes and alcohol are too tough to ban. Which doesn't make sense.
[/quote]
I'm saying that cigarettes will eventually become outdated (through price increases) and that alcohol is impossible to ban...as in the 21st Amendment impossible.

[quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1289185173' post='4770826']
The logic is that our laws should have internal consistency. If we have three substances that are equally (lets say) bad, it is [i]ridiculous[/i] to claim that one should be banned and the other two legal, because they are identical. Since marijuana is even less lethal than the other two, it being banned is actually more ridiculous than even that.

Why should, of things that are more lethal, and things that are less lethal, should we ban the less dangerous, and legalize the more dangerous? That's the opposite of what is logical.
[/quote]
All I see is that we agree marijuana is less bad than the other two, but still bad for people correct? Then why should it be legalized? Our laws [i][u]should[/i][/u] have consistency but this is America. =/

Off-Topic: Successful thread is successful. [size="1"]And we're all stubborn...[/size]