DARKPLANT RISING Posted January 4, 2011 Report Share Posted January 4, 2011 [quote name='Nu.' timestamp='1294154496' post='4911123'] This is an eternal argument. What you are arguing is reflected on your beliefs. [/quote] I've never seen anyone Elite or higher change their opinions in the Debates section, I doubt it's going to happen this time either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1294127195' post='4910786'] If survival is a need, then you must show why it is a need. If survival is not a need, then you must show why it is not a need. [/quote] It is a need by virtue of the fact that it is built into our programming. [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1294127195' post='4910786']I think you misunderstand something. There must be two options, in order for there to be one option(as option implies more than one action that can be taken). If everyone chooses to survive, that does not automatically make it a need. A "need" is defined as "Something required." What is survival required for? [/quote] Option may not be the right word. For the majority of people, there is no option. Humans need survival in the same sense a computer needs to follow its programming, or water needs to flow downhill. It is a need by virtue of its exclusivity. Here are 7 different definitions for "need": –noun 1. a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there. 2. a lack of something wanted or deemed necessary: to fulfill the needs of the assignment. 3. urgent want, as of something requisite: He has no need of your charity. 4. necessity arising from the circumstances of a situation or case: There is no need to worry. 5. a situation or time of difficulty; exigency: to help a friend in need; to be a friend in need. 6. a condition marked by the lack of something requisite: the need for leadership. 7. destitution; extreme poverty: The family's need is acute. In this case, the 1st is the relevant one. It is a "necessary duty" to survive because it is built into our brain patterns to do so. [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1294127195' post='4910786'] You also assume that the option of suicide is absurd. This is false. If we were to follow your logic, then it would be this. 1) People have a need to survive 2) If a need is not met, people will choose the option to fulfill the need. 3) People can only fulfill their needs, they have only one option 4) Survival is a need 5) Suicide is impossible because people must fulfill their needs. However this is clearly not the case, as people kill themselves everyday. [/quote] Most people would be psychologically incapable of willingly starving themselves to death. If someone can do that, then their programming differs, and they are following a different need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFauKorean Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 lol fail grammer = debate topic yay my first hot topic!!! this actually made things worse in the sense i cant answer my own question now cuz i wanted the majority to answer it for me i guess ill have to make my own opinion based on what you buys say and ill tell you my conclusive thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 [quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1294103297' post='4910107'] Of course you can't answer someone who just says "why" to every question... it infinitely regresses to the point of stupidity. [/quote] I'd say it leads to the confirmation of insignificance, more than it does stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 It confirms that you'd have to be stupid to keep discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 [quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1294205706' post='4912914'] It confirms that you'd have to be stupid to keep discussing it. [/quote] If you discussed it a second time, I suppose. Most existential observations like this often fly over peoples' heads. Not so much because they're dumb, but because it doesn't typically emerge in their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 If you entertain someone who has no intention of saying anything beyond "why", I would say its a highly questionable choice of a way to spend your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~/Coolio Prime\~ Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Depends on his purpose of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 [quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1294186414' post='4912050'] It is a need by virtue of the fact that it is built into our programming. Option may not be the right word. For the majority of people, there is no option. Humans need survival in the same sense a computer needs to follow its programming, or water needs to flow downhill. It is a need by virtue of its exclusivity. Here are 7 different definitions for "need": –noun 1. a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation: There is no need for you to go there. In this case, the 1st is the relevant one. It is a "necessary duty" to survive because it is built into our brain patterns to do so. Most people would be psychologically incapable of willingly starving themselves to death. If someone can do that, then their programming differs, and they are following a different need. [/quote] You are still misusing the word Need. Water doesn't need to flow down hill, it only flows down hill because of gravity. A computer doesnt need to follow its programming, it can only follow its programming because it a processor. Humans only need to survive in order to live. Also, I do not believe it is a "necessary duty to survive because it is built into our brain patterns to do so" argument. We have biological urges to have sex with women(or men, or whatever, but for the sake of argument I'm going to keep in within the Human Community). Should we be allowed to rape women/men because we have sexual needs? If we aren't allowed to rape them, then why are our needs not being met? Don't we have a right to fulfill our needs because hey "its built into our brain patterns to do so." If we are allowed to rape them, then why are their needs to live a healthy, mentally unscarring life not being met? Don't say "well the man/woman that does the rape can choose someone else to consensually have sex with." Men especially, take looks into consideration when choosing a mate. It's been proven, as women have evolved much prettier faces over time. If we are lusting over Object A, then why should we be dealing with Object B? Why can't we have the object that is activating the need for sex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Everyone goes through the "Why?" phase. He'll grow out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1294334263' post='4915605'] You are still misusing the word Need. Water doesn't need to flow down hill, it only flows down hill because of gravity. A computer doesnt need to follow its programming, it can only follow its programming because it a processor. Humans only need to survive in order to live. Also, I do not believe it is a "necessary duty to survive because it is built into our brain patterns to do so" argument. We have biological urges to have sex with women(or men, or whatever, but for the sake of argument I'm going to keep in within the Human Community). Should we be allowed to rape women/men because we have sexual needs? If we aren't allowed to rape them, then why are our needs not being met? Don't we have a right to fulfill our needs because hey "its built into our brain patterns to do so." If we are allowed to rape them, then why are their needs to live a healthy, mentally unscarring life not being met? Don't say "well the man/woman that does the rape can choose someone else to consensually have sex with." Men especially, take looks into consideration when choosing a mate. It's been proven, as women have evolved much prettier faces over time. If we are lusting over Object A, then why should we be dealing with Object B? Why can't we have the object that is activating the need for sex? [/quote] I already posted the definition of need, so if you think i'm incorrect, prove it please. Obviously humans do not need to rape women; the fact that this only happens irregularly attest to that. If we "needed" to rape women, then we would be incapable of doing otherwise. The majority of people are incapable of starving themselves to death. It should be obvious that a need manifests itself in the actual displayed actions of a species, and the fact that this only happens to some people should show it is not built into the programming of most. Secondly, just because something is a need does not mean it should be allowed; someone may have a completely irresistible compulsion to kill people, but that doesn't mean we are obliged to enable that act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 [quote name='GenzoTheHarpist' timestamp='1294381679' post='4917173'] I already posted the definition of need, so if you think i'm incorrect, prove it please. Obviously humans do not need to rape women; the fact that this only happens irregularly attest to that. If we "needed" to rape women, then we would be incapable of doing otherwise. The majority of people are incapable of starving themselves to death. It should be obvious that a need manifests itself in the actual displayed actions of a species, and the fact that this only happens to some people should show it is not built into the programming of most. Secondly, just because something is a need does not mean it should be allowed; someone may have a completely irresistible compulsion to kill people, but that doesn't mean we are obliged to enable that act. [/quote] You are misusing it because water has no intentions of itself running down hill, it only does that because of gravity, it isn't a need, its a casual relationship. Same thing with the computer. You must have a desire to have a need. I never said we needed to rape. I said we have a biological need to procreate. Also, just because it does not show itself in a majority of people does not automatically exclude it from being indulged. Its like saying 1+1=3 is true just because 60% of the population says its true. Secondly, Why should we only indulge some needs rather than others? If we should only indulge some needs rather than others, what is the criterion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenzoTheHarpist Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1294408912' post='4917498'] You are misusing it because water has no intentions of itself running down hill, it only does that because of gravity, it isn't a need, its a casual relationship. Same thing with the computer. You must have a desire to have a need. I never said we needed to rape. I said we have a biological need to procreate. Also, just because it does not show itself in a majority of people does not automatically exclude it from being indulged. Its like saying 1+1=3 is true just because 60% of the population says its true. Secondly, Why should we only indulge some needs rather than others? If we should only indulge some needs rather than others, what is the criterion? [/quote] I don't see why you need a desire to have a need. We may have a biological need to procreate; clearly people do not generally want to exercise that as rape. Since we're speaking about the actions of people, that 60% of the people act this way is indeed evidence that there is a tendency to do it for 60% of people. We should indulge them based on if they are conducive to a well-functioning society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Here, what you need [i]n[/i] is something requisite for event [i]e[/i]. To punch someone you need a fist. To have a fist you need a hand. Also, to punch someone you need someone to punch. To survive you need to keep your cells constantly supplied with ATP, usually produced from sugars, proteins, and carbohydrates, the process also requiring molecules of water to grease the gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Nothing can really be eaten. It is impossible to eat anything. Here, I'm using my altered definition of "to eat" that means "to obliterate all matter of, leaving not even energy behind in its place, thus violating conservation". This isn't the correct definition, nor is it a useful definition, nor is it a definition that anyone sensible would ever use, but it's the definition I've decided to use so that I can make people on the internet jump through nonsensical semantic hoops. Does that summarize this topic acceptably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Culpa Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 The basic instinct is to survive, by the human impulses lodged deep within your ancient brain so yes, there is need. You're brain can even make you feral if you go without food and sleep for a long time. It's called insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterwhip Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 in biology survival i believe would be necesity to keep a species alive but its also a desire like you need and desire food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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