Let's Fix The Banlist.

[Birkeland]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1296015245' post='4961479']
Cards that counter destruction are good for the game. Cards that repeatedly stop destruction aren't. Now put that card on 2500 ATK point legs you have a card that gives the person facing it a major up hill battle. Why do you need careful planning and strategy to summon Stardust? Even without it's effect your getting a 2500 beater meaning it runs over a good portion of the creature based of the game so you'd want that as soon as possible normally. The fact that you don't need to fear cards with the word "destroy" in the text only takes away from planning and strategy used to summon it since once it's out it's not a cake walk to remove. At 3 it's totally gone since if you loss one it's not like its a challenge to summon another. Also another of Stardust is it promotes people to overextend since they no longer fear mass removal and that isn't good for the game.

Yes, timing is important for BRD, not for Stardust.
[/quote]

Point taken. Outright banning it would against Konami's market, so maybe just Limit it.

On that note, would Gateway of the Six be solved by banning it or just limiting it? And BWW should just be outright banned. How long have BWs been Tier 1 now?

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='ekikin' timestamp='1296017774' post='4961560']
Point taken. Outright banning it would against Konami's market, so maybe just Limit it.

On that note, would Gateway of the Six be solved by banning it or just limiting it? And BWW should just be outright banned. How long have BWs been Tier 1 now?
[/quote]
The beautiful thing about making your own ban list is you don't care why Konami may or may not do. If we want to ban him on our own list we can.

Gateway's second effect functions much like BWW and while having multiples of them is simply ridiculous even one can generate a good deal of advantage and momentum for the user. As such I say Gateway should go.

[burnpsy]

Flame Dragon, a significant point in your argument involves the ability to summon multiples. When it's a problem in multiples, the solution is typically limiting, not banning, is it not?

Also, aren't most of Gateway's loops only effective when you have more than one out?

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1296023667' post='4961660']
Flame Dragon, a significant point in your argument involves the ability to summon multiples. When it's a problem in multiples, the solution is typically limiting, not banning, is it not?

Also, aren't most of Gateway's loops only effective when you have more than one out?
[/quote]
For what argument, Stardust? How was that a significant point of my argument when it made up less then a line. I only brought up 3 because the person I was responding to said Stardust was fine at 3. You only need 1 to do damage I talked about.

If it was for Gateway I said one is enough since thanks to it's second effect it can basically act like BWW.

[Flame Dragon]

So, did I kill this topic?

Let's try putting some life back in it. Rekindling needs to be banned. The reason is obvious, but lets see what the people in this topic can come up with to support or refute the claim.

[riicky83]

I just hated how Black Luster Soldier Envoy of the beggining wasn't banned at the same time as Chaos Emperor Dragon Envoy of the end, back then one of the quickest ways to deal with BLS was with CED as he is summoned just as easily and can use its effect to kill BLS but because CED was banned for a while and the availible cards that we had back then there wasn't much defence against BLS's removal effect.
But i'm glad they are both banned as CED's combos made several cards get banned in one go while BLS was a bit too over powered IMO.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

@Flame Dragon: Placido never said that he didn't know how to say BWW was broken, he said others haven't and that's why its not on the list. lrn2read

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='RobotBowtieOfDestruction' timestamp='1296528328' post='4978041']
@Flame Dragon: Placido never said that he didn't know how to say BWW was broken, he said others haven't and that's why its not on the list. lrn2read
[/quote]
[quote name='Placido.' timestamp='1295943708' post='4959320']
Black Whirlwind deserves to be banned but the only reason I've had for it is; hurr durr it's broken
[/quote]
If he said "the only reason I've been given" then yes, your right. However the way I read this is that the "hurr durr it's broken" is the reason he has. However, it could read like you suggest, but how could i know that. So me misreading isn't the problem, the problem is that the message isn't clear.

Also people have given reason why it's broken and I don't see why it wouldn't be listed at this point when several people have said why the card is bad for the game and no one is in disagreement with it being moved to 0.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1296530959' post='4978181']
If he said "the only reason I've been given" then yes, your right. However the way I read this is that the "hurr durr it's broken" is the reason he has. However, it could read like you suggest, but how could i know that. So me misreading isn't the problem, the problem is that the message isn't clear.

Also people have given reason why it's broken and I don't see why it wouldn't be listed at this point when several people have said why the card is bad for the game and no one is in disagreement with it being moved to 0.
[/quote]
I know it's what he means. He's YCM's best Blackwing player. He knows why BWW is broken.

[Canadian]

Book of Moon is perfect @3 but, knowing Konami, do you think they'd Semi-limit/Limit it?

[Darkend2575]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1296531774' post='4978233']
Book of Moon is perfect @3 but, knowing Konami, do you think they'd Semi-limit/Limit it?
[/quote]

well i could see it going to 2, its a great card i wouldnt say broken but stops alot thats for sure

[Brandon Michael Geren]

Some people don't even play 3 Book...

[Canadian]

[quote name='RobotBowtieOfDestruction' timestamp='1296581916' post='4978908']
Some people don't even play 3 Book...
[/quote]
Some people are retarded.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1296583529' post='4978957']
Some people are retarded.
[/quote]
Some people don't have space.

[Brinolovania]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1296583529' post='4978957']
Some people are retarded.
[/quote]
Some people like using 2.

[HulkTySSJ2]

So, what can we say would be the best deck if all cards in the game were just limited to 1?

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='hulkty' timestamp='1296597679' post='4979407']
So, what can we say would be the best deck if all cards in the game were just limited to 1?
[/quote]
your mom

also gtfo

[riicky83]

[quote name='hulkty' timestamp='1296597679' post='4979407']
So, what can we say would be the best deck if all cards in the game were just limited to 1?
[/quote]

Well before a huge amount of cards were banned when Invasion of Chaos came out the best decks were chaos types aka BLS, CED Witch of the black forest, Sangan, Yata Garasu, etc.

[Mysty]

[quote name='hulkty' timestamp='1296597679' post='4979407']
So, what can we say would be the best deck if all cards in the game were just limited to 1?
[/quote]
Obviously it would be Chaos Lightsworn. Then a bunch of cards would be banned and it would probably be Gladiator Beasts. Or, at least Gladiator Beasts would probably be the most consistent deck, being able to swap out any Gladiator Beast for almost any other Gladiator Beast.
That anime topic was made and it didn't do well.
Sadly, neither did Crab Helmet's topic of allowing any number of a card that isn't restricted to a specific maximum number.

Anyway, now I'll contribute some other possible changes (note that Cold Wave and Monster reborn are implied and I'm not making an entire list, just parts)

[b]Banned[/b]
[b]Stardust Dragon[/b] - this card counters anti-overextension, therefore indirectly promoting overextension, with a 2500 ATK beater (higher than the average Monarch 2400 ATK). Overextension is bad playing, and this card is easily summonable and sustainable, so ban this. Then again, we know Konami would at most limit this until Yugioh ZeXal starts.
[b]Rekindling[/b] - +4 in card advantage that most likely would be used for at least a +1 in the form of two Synchros or SSD/RND (Formula Synchron's effect is a +1. I'm sure Flamvells have a Level 2 Tuner to use with Formula Synchron).
[b]Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth[/b] - thanks to Fish tuners, what used to be a swarm of relatively useless fish became a swarm of Synchros, just like Rekindling. While this is tougher to use than Rekindling and takes up a monster space (limiting advantage to +2), that still is a +2 and it is a Level 7 for great Fishborg Blaster synching.
[b]Plaguespreader Zombie[/b] - Zombies even getting a Tuner with no negative effects absolutely astounded me. A DARK Zombie Tuner with a revival effect and can be splashed into any deck goes too far for my taste, especially since the RFP zone is now more like the second Graveyard and cards can easily be pulled from it.
[b]Pot of Duality[/b] - When even Blackwings could main Oppression, you could see that not special summoning isn't a problem even for an archetype based on swarming and synchro summoning. This card just stops the Special Summoning for the turn and lets you pick your fate out of your next three cards. You probably aren't going to run into multiple PoDs in a turn anyway, but a person can just hold onto one if they find one. Overall, it's like a Pot of Greed that trades its extra card for extra foresight (which gives you 1.5x the odds of getting the card you need in a pinch as Pot of Greed) with laughable conditions. This card is quite comparable to Pot of Greed and, since Pot of Greed is banned, this card probably should be too.

[b]Limited[/b]
[b]Destiny Hero - Malicious[/b] - it only works in combination, so Limiting it is basically the same as banning it, except at limited you have an access to an 800 ATK Level 6 DARk Warrior. I'm sure that must have some use.
Being able to thin the deck by a card and summon a good Level monster for Synchro Summoning right out of the blue is very powerful. Being DARK and a Destiny Hero doesn't make it weaker either.

[b]Unlimited[/b]
[b]Metamorphosis[/b] - Its best moves involved summoning Cyber Twin and Cyber End, which are banworthy anyway. This card is a -1 and overall has no business on the list.
[b]Book of Moon[/b] - Oh, wait, it's already on the umlimited list, isn't it? My point, semi-ing a non-monster card does nothing and this card is perfectly fine. It's a -1 that usually ends up a +0 and only occasionally a +1.

[.Gideon.]

[quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1296601271' post='4979599']
Obviously it would be Chaos Lightsworn. Then a bunch of cards would be banned and it would probably be Gladiator Beasts. Or, at least Gladiator Beasts would probably be the most consistent deck, being able to swap out any Gladiator Beast for almost any other Gladiator Beast.
That anime topic was made and it didn't do well.
Sadly, neither did Crab Helmet's topic of allowing any number of a card that isn't restricted to a specific maximum number.

Anyway, now I'll contribute some other possible changes (note that Cold Wave and Monster reborn are implied and I'm not making an entire list, just parts)

[b]Banned[/b]
[b]Stardust Dragon[/b] - this card counters anti-overextension, therefore indirectly promoting overextension, with a 2500 ATK beater (higher than the average Monarch 2400 ATK). Overextension is bad playing, and this card is easily summonable and sustainable, so ban this. Then again, we know Konami would at most limit this until Yugioh ZeXal starts.
[b]Rekindling[/b] - +4 in card advantage that most likely would be used for at least a +1 in the form of two Synchros or SSD/RND (Formula Synchron's effect is a +1. I'm sure Flamvells have a Level 2 Tuner to use with Formula Synchron).
[b]Superancient Deepsea King Coelacanth[/b] - thanks to Fish tuners, what used to be a swarm of relatively useless fish became a swarm of Synchros, just like Rekindling. While this is tougher to use than Rekindling and takes up a monster space (limiting advantage to +2), that still is a +2 and it is a Level 7 for great Fishborg Blaster synching.
[b]Plaguespreader Zombie[/b] - Zombies even getting a Tuner with no negative effects absolutely astounded me. A DARK Zombie Tuner with a revival effect and can be splashed into any deck goes too far for my taste, especially since the RFP zone is now more like the second Graveyard and cards can easily be pulled from it.
[b]Pot of Duality[/b] - When even Blackwings could main Oppression, you could see that not special summoning isn't a problem even for an archetype based on swarming and synchro summoning. This card just stops the Special Summoning for the turn and lets you pick your fate out of your next three cards. You probably aren't going to run into multiple PoDs in a turn anyway, but a person can just hold onto one if they find one. Overall, it's like a Pot of Greed that trades its extra card for extra foresight (which gives you 1.5x the odds of getting the card you need in a pinch as Pot of Greed) with laughable conditions. This card is quite comparable to Pot of Greed and, since Pot of Greed is banned, this card probably should be too.

[b]Limited[/b]
[b]Destiny Hero - Malicious[/b] - it only works in combination, so Limiting it is basically the same as banning it, except at limited you have an access to an 800 ATK Level 6 DARk Warrior. I'm sure that must have some use.
Being able to thin the deck by a card and summon a good Level monster for Synchro Summoning right out of the blue is very powerful. Being DARK and a Destiny Hero doesn't make it weaker either.

[b]Unlimited[/b]
[b]Metamorphosis[/b] - Its best moves involved summoning Cyber Twin and Cyber End, which are banworthy anyway. This card is a -1 and overall has no business on the list.
[b]Book of Moon[/b] - Oh, wait, it's already on the umlimited list, isn't it? My point, semi-ing a non-monster card does nothing and this card is perfectly fine. It's a -1 that usually ends up a +0 and only occasionally a +1.
[/quote]

Fail.

[El-Rrey]

I also want Super Ancient Fish to be banned!

[wiithepeople]

I would bring Mind Master to 2. There's not a lot of players playing this card. Surprisingly, there are more people playing Krebons than this card.

I would also bring D-Draw to 2. Although this helps the cases of OTK and FTK decks, there's already OTK/FTK decks out there that DON'T use this card, such as Inferni-*gets shot*

Limit Mist Wurm and Trishula. Most duelists only run one of each, so this should be fine.

Put Starlight Road to 1. This might discourage some from trying to get a free Synchro, much less one of the most threatening out there.

Hopefully Konami might come to it's senses. But for now we can only hope for it.

[El-Rrey]

[quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1296926366' post='4989999']
I would bring Mind Master to 2. There's not a lot of players playing this card. Surprisingly, there are more people playing Krebons than this card.

I would also bring D-Draw to 2. Although this helps the cases of OTK and FTK decks, there's already OTK/FTK decks out there that DON'T use this card, such as Inferni-*gets shot*

Limit Mist Wurm and Trishula. Most duelists only run one of each, so this should be fine.

Put Starlight Road to 1. This might discourage some from trying to get a free Synchro, much less one of the most threatening out there.
[/quote]

- inb4someonesaysgustoFTK
- why not?
- lolno and Trishula's already limited
- Starlight is ran at 1 if it's ran

[Manjoume Thunder]

just when I thought that the thread has hit rock bottom ...

it gets even worse

[RAEGING D0GKING]

[quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1296926366' post='4989999']
I would bring Mind Master to 2. There's not a lot of players playing this card. Surprisingly, there are more people playing Krebons than this card.

I would also bring D-Draw to 2. Although this helps the cases of OTK and FTK decks, there's already OTK/FTK decks out there that DON'T use this card, such as Inferni-*gets shot*

Limit Mist Wurm and Trishula. Most duelists only run one of each, so this should be fine.

Put Starlight Road to 1. This might discourage some from trying to get a free Synchro, much less one of the most threatening out there.

Hopefully Konami might come to it's senses. But for now we can only hope for it.
[/quote]

Mind Master at 2 and Starlight at 1?
u must fuking be kidding me