Sexual Orientation Question

[Yankee]

Hmmm' date=' well Frunk, while I get what you say, but, um, what about if theyare abused as you say, isn't their choice then to either go with, or against the sex of the person that did that? Plus, you make it sound like it happens all the time in which the person does that after they are abused or somthing, but alot of the time, it turns out that they where just abusedm and it didn't effect the way they felt twoard the opposite sex. I'm not exactly the best at this, in fact, i'm so tired right now that everything seems to be tilting to the left lol, but, I think, even if there is alot of pressure to do that, and how you are reaised, I seem to remember a little human trait called free will...

[/quote']

Free will is usless when trauma is involved, it becomes involuntary.

Really? Cus I see alot of people all the time that where abused, and look at them, I realise that it is a tramatic thing, I can never understand their pain, but it doesent always make them turn gay or somthing.

 

Can we call this a draw? lol, obviosly, neither of us are ever gonna win this argument, lol

[Frunk]

Hmmm' date=' well Frunk, while I get what you say, but, um, what about if theyare abused as you say, isn't their choice then to either go with, or against the sex of the person that did that? Plus, you make it sound like it happens all the time in which the person does that after they are abused or somthing, but alot of the time, it turns out that they where just abusedm and it didn't effect the way they felt twoard the opposite sex. I'm not exactly the best at this, in fact, i'm so tired right now that everything seems to be tilting to the left lol, but, I think, even if there is alot of pressure to do that, and how you are reaised, I seem to remember a little human trait called free will...

[/quote']

Free will is usless when trauma is involved, it becomes involuntary.

Really? Cus I see alot of people all the time that where abused, and look at them, I realise that it is a tramatic thing, I can never understand their pain, but it doesent always make them turn gay or somthing.

 

Can we call this a draw? lol, obviosly, neither of us are ever gonna win this argument, lol

 

Oh, that's grand of you, reply to one sentance of my argument. :? I never said always, either, I said sometimes, even in my first post here, which I would've bolded if you hadn't so rudely shunned it from our debate.

 

:D No.

[Yankee]

lol well, I only did 1 sentance cus the rest was realy just a way to get to that sentance, that is all, lol

I know you didn't say always, but the way you are saying it make it sound like every case is the same, when it is not. >_<

[Cyber Altair]

Well im gonna

 

Go with the most off topic thing here and just simply say

 

I really dont care lol It wouldnt bother me if i was born gay or turned gay later in life' date=' for myself, i actually have always been gay, since i could remember, never ever had an attraction to females.

 

Thus, im gay and lovin it ^_^ lol

[/quote']

 

lol, meet the ladies once in a while lol. anyway it isnt your choice or anything, cause i read about this that gay's have there brain similiar to women or something so they get attracted to men and same goes to lisbeans as thier brains act a bit like men.

 

cant remember the scintific terms and i dont care cause i am an Accounting student, yay me ^_^.

[Frunk]

lol well' date=' I only did 1 sentance cus the rest was realy just a way to get to that sentance, that is all, lol

I know you didn't say always, but the way you are saying it make it sound like every case is the same, when it is not. >_<

[/quote']

 

...

 

Of course it's not the same. I am merely trying to explain to these eggheads some different ways that sexual orientation can be influenced. I'd go into more depth, but I honestly don't care. Anyone who does should Wiki it.

 

EDIT: Cyber, that's quite blunt, I'd rethink that post if I were you...

[Yankee]

lol well' date=' I only did 1 sentance cus the rest was realy just a way to get to that sentance, that is all, lol

I know you didn't say always, but the way you are saying it make it sound like every case is the same, when it is not. >_<

[/quote']

 

...

 

Of course it's not the same. I am merely trying to explain to these eggheads some different ways that sexual orientation can be influenced. I'd go into more depth, but I honestly don't care. Anyone who does should Wiki it.

 

EDIT: Cyber, that's quite blunt, I'd rethink that post if I were you...

I am firly certain that this debate is really gonna be a draw, and we are both kind of done with it, lol

 

Yes, there are ways in which it can be INFLUENCED, but, that doesent mean that they actually are being forced to be gay. It's lke school, you have pressure to do alot of stuff, but in the end, it's your choice on what happens. People can tell you what to do, but in the end, it's your life, and you have the decision, or free will to choose what you wanna do XD

[Frunk]

lol well' date=' I only did 1 sentance cus the rest was realy just a way to get to that sentance, that is all, lol

I know you didn't say always, but the way you are saying it make it sound like every case is the same, when it is not. >_<

[/quote']

 

...

 

Of course it's not the same. I am merely trying to explain to these eggheads some different ways that sexual orientation can be influenced. I'd go into more depth, but I honestly don't care. Anyone who does should Wiki it.

 

EDIT: Cyber, that's quite blunt, I'd rethink that post if I were you...

I am firly certain that this debate is really gonna be a draw, and we are both kind of done with it, lol

 

Yes, there are ways in which it can be INFLUENCED, but, that doesent mean that they actually are being forced to be gay. It's lke school, you have pressure to do alot of stuff, but in the end, it's your choice on what happens. People can tell you what to do, but in the end, it's your life, and you have the decision, or free will to choose what you wanna do XD

 

What on Earth are you talking about? I am not talking about it creating homosexuality. I am talking about abuse, and how victims of such sometimes obtain a fetish to do what was done to them. Either way, they are not forced to, obviously, and force is not the word that should be used. They are not forced, but that have no say in the matter, the people who suffer from "Sometimes", as I will refer to it for this debate, develop a new instinct, a new personal normality, which is to abuse other children. This CAN be a man or a woman and either one COULD be abusing either a male or female child. It is their choice if they decide to act upon this fetish, as their desire has just got too great, but the desire itself is normal to them because it's just the way they think. I've had a similar debate with Static (which I'd say I lost due to lack of evidence) about the human mind, and, when one of these minds has suffered a trauma, it can be weakened, manipulated and redirected, thus, not everyone has 100% free will. Ever heard of a thing called love? Can you tell anyone why you love someone? If you can, then it's not love, it's lust. Love is a prefect example of the human mind not being 100% in control. "Sometimes" could be described as a similar concept of love, but obviously, less pure.

[Yankee]

Hmmm, well, that is a good one, but I wasn't talking about abuse, I was talking about the original post. You said that abuse can make tauma, and thus, helping in the uncontrollable, or really, natural gay or so thing, well, my responce it, well, it is still your choice XD

You have left the original subject of this Frunk.

[Frunk]

Hmmm' date=' well, that is a good one, but I wasn't talking about abuse, I was talking about the original post. You said that abuse can make tauma, and thus, helping in the uncontrollable, or really, natural gay or so thing, well, my responce it, well, it is still your choice XD

You have left the original subject of this Frunk.

[/quote']

 

Erm... no, I haven't... You are the one who from your first reply to me have been trying to put the abuse-homosexuality card in my pocket, bolded is the key:

 

those who are sexually abused tend around this age tend to attain a desire to do this to other's themselves

 

isn't their choice then to either go with' date=' or against the sex of the person that did that?[/b']

 

don't you realise that both men and women can abuse and be abused? Girls can be abused by women' date=' boys can be abused by men, and vice versa. I'm not refering to the gender a victim of abuse chooses, but the fact that they sometimes ('you ever seen one interviewed?) have an odd, uncontrolable desire to do it to someone as it was done to them. [b']It matters not whether they were abused by a man or a woman, nor whether they themseleves are male or female, and sometimes even nor who they are abusing.

 

Really? Cus I see alot of people all the time that where abused' date=' and look at them, I realise that it is a tramatic thing, I can never understand their pain, [b']but it doesent always make them turn gay or somthing[/b]

 

I am merely trying to explain to these eggheads some different ways that sexual orientation can be influenced.

 

there are ways in which it can be INFLUENCED' date=' but, [b']that doesent mean that they actually are being forced to be gay.[/b]

 

I am not talking about it creating homosexuality. I am talking about abuse' date=' and how victims of such sometimes obtain a fetish to do what was done to them.[/quote']

 

but I wasn't talking about abuse' date=' [b']I was talking about the original post.[/b]

 

As the above sequence shows, I WAS and always have been talking about abuse in this debate, and never in my original post, nor this debate, did I say abuse spawned homosexuality, I have been saying abuse spawns abuse. I was trying to point out that there is more than just "heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual", as some people like chirlden, animals, etc., etc. Why would I then even bother arguing how homosexuality is created. Read my first post again, carefully, 2 or 3 times, until you get it.

 

If a victim of abuse has then later abused another child, despite my agreeing with them being prosecuted, the desire to do it wasn't their choice. That was and always has been my argument.

 

You don't believe me, seriously, learn to read my entire posts. Not that I have gone off track as you say, but do you know how a debate works, it twists and turns until a result is reached.

 

Now unless you can prove that I was infact talking about what you say, I believe.

 

You lose.

Good day sir.

[Cyber Altair]

well frunk i feel this might get out of control, a possibilty of a sharp war starting debate.

[Frunk]

Have you not noticed Yankee and I are enjoying this? Stay out of it until it is done.

[Tkill93]

Anyone who thinks it's a choice' date=' READ:[/b']

 

Sexual orientation, may I remind you, is more than just "heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual". MUCH more. Don't forget there are some people, who, by today's REDICULOUS standards, are considered weird for "choosing" other paths. There are people out there who like animals/children/deceased persons/etc. (I need not list more), which, since, believe it or not all the people who are most likely close-minded hetero's (who think you "chose" what we are, when in fact, you just believe you did because our heterosexuality is considered the most "normal", when it is merely the most common), was not their choice, and, despite being less common, should not be considered "weird" at the least. You are not born into a sexual orientation, nor do you choose such a thing, but often it is rather determined through your earlier years depending on on a number of things, those who are sexually abused tend around this age tend to attain a desire to do this to other's themselves, as well as things as simple as if somone of a certain gender is particularly kind or influencial in another way towards you, (Start of explanation parenethesis) which can influence you to develop an attraction (at that age, it's often subliminal, but depending on the upbringing of the particular child developing (may have been brought up in an open sexual way, by possibly witnessing fornication or even pornography) said attraction, it may not always be this way) towards this particular person, who you will likely eventually lose contact with, but the attraction to this gender may remain simply for nostalga reasons of you remaining close to this type of person. Eventually, you'll hit adolescence and this subliminal attraction may not be even in your memory anymore, but still affect your orientation (End of explanation parenethesis). Also, you can be influenced by peers, family, other people who also are a certain orientation. Of course, there is a little thing called a fetish, which is merely one exploring and testing certain things, which could explain beastiality. These can stick, and people pick up this and other orientations.

 

It's a big, BIG thing. Do you nearly get it?

 

"Simplists", as I will call you, who have very closed minds, on this forum are spreading like WEEDS.

tl;dr

 

But judging from other posts I guess it's not a choice. I was wrong :P

[Kocrow17]

Kaze: That's a very interesting point you make' date=' and I'd be interested to learn more about that...

 

The point cyberdude made about the genetic manipulation also intrigues me...

 

Kaze, do you think that the way people are born is because of the genetic manipulation?

[/quote']

I wouldn't call it genetic manipulation. I believe the source of the topic at hand is strictly subconcious; What our brain expriences during critical times in its development that leads us to feel towards certain things. As Frunk said, abuse is one of these experiences that can lead you down a certain path.

[Cyber Altair]

Have you not noticed Yankee and I are enjoying this? Stay out of it until it is done.

 

lol.

 

yes abuse may be but it is also that when you born (stated before but what the heck) our hormones and stuff act and dicide our sexual oriniation and behaviour and this os not easy to change even if abuse was involved. it's somewhat in your genes, you cant change that, like that you cant force a calculator into saying 2+2=6 unless by minupiulation.

[II DEFiiNED II]

Ok, say me, ( I am just an example ) say, I get a girlfriend, and we go out for like, 1 year, and then we break up, and then me and some other guy get in a relationship, that doesn't mean that I changed my sexual orientation, that just means that I could of always been a homosexual, and never really showed it.

[Junk Raver]

I get what Frunk is saying

 

This may not be Uber related, but abuse of any kind can lead to many odd things

 

I myself as some ppl know, am an extremely Vain person, but i am only that way due to the fact i was greatly bullied and verbally abused at school about my looks, the mental and verbal abuse i suffered has made me, to this day, extremely Vain and self concious about the way i look

 

But, in all fairness i did look ugly as sin at school, i dont know why i had Uber long hair, what was i thinking lol

 

Now i think im just Uber gorgeous muwhahaha ^_^ But still Vain, i constantly stare in every mirror i pass to make sure i look ok lol

 

So im now happy about the way i look ^_^

[Cyber Altair]

But' date=' in all fairness i did look ugly as sin at school, i dont know why i had Uber long hair, what was i thinking lol

 

Now i think im just Uber gorgeous muwhahaha ^_^ But still Vain, i constantly stare in every mirror i pass to make sure i look ok lol

 

So im now happy about the way i look ^_^

[/quote']

 

lol, just lol.

 

Ok' date=' say me, ( I am just an example ) say, I get a girlfriend, and we go out for like, 1 year, and then we break up, and then me and some other guy get in a relationship, that doesn't mean that I changed my sexual orientation, that just means that I could of always been a homosexual, and never really showed it.

[/quote']

 

basicly yes, you were born homosexual, (still remembering this is an example) basiclly it shows up since you grow mature (over 13) is when you start attracting to boys thought our mind tries most of the time to fight that urge it will eventually take over you.

[II DEFiiNED II]

Exactly, I think you were born like this. Everybody is different, I don't think you can attract yourself to something that you aren't attracted to.

[Zeroshot]

according to Billie Joe Armstrong, I think people are born bisexual, and it's just that our parents and society kind of veer us off into this feeling of 'Oh, I can't.' They say it's taboo. It's ingrained in our heads that it's bad, when it's not bad at all. It's a very beautiful thing."

[Cyber Altair]

according to Billie Joe Armstrong' date=' I think people are born bisexual, and it's just that our parents and society kind of veer us off into this feeling of 'Oh, I can't.' They say it's taboo. It's ingrained in our heads that it's bad, when it's not bad at all. It's a very beautiful thing."

[/quote']

 

it is, following what you are trully feeling whether it bieng straight or homosexual or bisexual. you are born and even thought we are programmed to do so our lifestyle, culture, thinking and expiriences shape it into what we are trully borned into.

 

But strange enought it is really shut down by religion and it's opposed by christians and muslims and i really think it ispointless, it's like we are saing no colour and race discremination but we are actually discriminating people by not giving them freedom of choice.

[Junk Raver]

Oh CD dont get me started on religion... LOL

 

I have very harsh views regarding religion lol

[cyberdude]

Oh CD dont get me started on religion... LOL

 

I have very harsh views regarding religion lol

 

yes lets gets started on the biggest debate in history god i whould love that

[Junk Raver]

The thread would instantly get locked, and if i got started i most lilky would be banned lol

[Yankee]

As the above sequence shows, I WAS and always have been talking about abuse in this debate, and never in my original post, nor this debate, did I say abuse spawned homosexuality, I have been saying abuse spawns abuse. I was trying to point out that there is more than just "heterosexual/homosexual/bisexual", as some people like chirlden, animals, etc., etc. Why would I then even bother arguing how homosexuality is created.

 

If a victim of abuse has then later abused another child, the desire to do it wasn't their choice.

Really? You where talking about the thing? Well, I see that this thread was about if you belive homosxuality is your choice or not. Now, my question is, if you said that abuse didn't cause homosexuality, how did you get to abuse? You see, I know abuse can happen at any sex, or age, but come on. So, um, here, you say abuse spawns abuse. Ok,that makes seince, but, um, wherent we talking about how homosexuality is made, cus we are trying to prove our theories? Abuse may be bad, but again, in the end, you have many opportunities to not abuse sombody. When you see them, you may say, hey, maybe I don't wanna do this. Maybe when you see them, go into a room, or somthing, you can choose not to abuse them. So, again, you say that, if you are abused, and you abuse sombody else, it's not your choice that you did that? Wow, in a seince, you just gave an exuce for a person to abuse sombody. Please explain to me how, you can abuse sombody, and you never had a choice to do so? I know this is gonna sound wierd, but I don't care what happend to you, YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE. It's your own choice. You say free will is nothing when trauma is involved. Um, What? You have the choice to be just lie the person tht abused you. You notice that there are alot of people that, even after being abused, they continue with the same sex they loved in the first place, and they don't abuse anybody? I have.

 

 

I notice that everybody here is on your side, but I don't care, this is my way of thinking. I realise I deleted alot of what you said, but still. I deleted that useless stuff, I only need the lest things you said, cus what you say is only about those stuff, and I know what you said.

 

Again, i'm not gonna give up on this, but you have already won the popularity vote. Everybody likes your idea of thinking. But I have really thought out my way of thinking. So, God Kaze, Cybernetic Dragon, heck, pretty much everybody is on your side, so, I obviosly can't win cus i'm gonna be debating against everybody, not just you, but i'm not gonna stop, i'm not about to have the way I have thought all my life lose so easily.

[the Snakey Wolf Lord]

My GF was bisexual last year, so it`s possible to change...