Absolutely amazing! :D

[JerryFreelance]

I have my own Deviant Art account and I do post my own artwork up there. I don't really care if someone uses my artwork without my permission or doesn't give me any credit for the artwork. When you post your work on the internet you take responsibility that there are people out there who will use your artwork without your permission. I understand where people are coming from but I don't see any point in getting upset over it. Personally' date=' I have 1321902190 other things to worry about then having people use my artwork for cards or for some other purpose. Take it as a complement that someone out there enjoys your artwork enough to do something with it.

[/quote']

 

That and Tiberas' comments would be my case in point.

[Tiberas]

I don't know how to tackle this one (Killey's post) but here's my 2cents.

 

It's not a compliment when people take it and don't bother to credit you. I'm sorry but maybe we're more uptight, but I draw and do art seriously and I spend money and time to make art. You don't take my stuff and some mention that I did it and expect me to be happy with it. It's the same idea behind the creator's name on the cards you guys make.

 

Yea, it's pretty hard to control the flow of illegal redistribution and yea there are many more places that do it. I did put more effort here because a artist I highly respect was a victim here, but that doesn't mean people should just let it go. Like I said previously, legal action can be taken and if anything everyone needs to play it safe and legal before someone really gets in trouble.

[Draco Straybyrn]

Disclaimer to be added to my Chaos Beast set.

 

I can't find those images again, I dug and dug for them.

 

Cubi Star, you're a bit of a genious, and talented in your craft of speech. Your art is wonderful too. I'd like to speak with you.

 

Any and all people who exist on DA, if you contact me, please do it through DA. *cough halo-themed sig cough*

 

Yeah.

[Shaco]

 

Ha, edited my first card to use in this...

 

... I'd edit the others, but I have no idea where there pictures came from now...

 

... well, either way, there it is.

 

CELEBRATION TIME!!!

[Atateatarin]

Well I have to say, I'm impressed by Cubistar's reception (: Thanks guys. It's good to see some headway being made in a good direction.

If I may make some small suggestion additions that might help things along?

 

Sorry for the tl;dr, so I've done my best to categorise to make it easier to read :) None of this is meant to be inflammatory.

 

 

 

Keeping Track of Artist’s Identities

I noticed one of the problems some folks have pointed out is saving lots of images and losing track of who owns what. Most DA artworks are saved with the username of the artist in the image name, so as long as you don't rename any artworks (or at least if you rename, don't remove the username from the filename) it should be very easy to keep track of the creator by filename. For sites other than DA, adding the artists username or main website name to the filename can also help keep things organised. Or failing that, if you save a lot of work from one particular artist, make a folder with their username. That should help in that respect.

If you really don’t want to put a credit on the card, while it would be desirable to be sure, even a text-link to the artist’s gallery underneath the card will satisfy some artists.

 

 

Artwork Under Creative Commons

Another avenue as well is work licensed under Creative Commons. Now, not all artists use it, but there -are- a lot of artists out there who do that have fantastic work. All you have to do is check what kind of CC license it is (no derivs, repost with credit, so on and so forth) and you're generally fine to use it in ways that keep within with the terms. For example, if Artist A has Awesome Artwork B licensed under Creative Commons, and they've selected a license that says people are free to make derivatives of their work, and repost their work, providing credit/link backs are given, then that tells you that you should be cool to use the work. In case of doubt, on DA CC-licensed works have an icon underneath them describing what CC license they have, if a CC license has been assigned to them.

 

 

‘Allowed’ list and ‘Do Not Post’ list

The last idea I came to suggest that I was surprised I hadn't seen when I first came to the board (I was surprised as I've seen this employed in many many places where art is reposted en masse), is a 'Do Not Post List', and a 'Allowed List'.

Basically, a list of artists who either don't want their work reused at all, and a list of artists who don't mind, maybe with the use of a linkback. This could save the members some time trying to get in touch with artists that will inevitably say no, and give a list of artists who are otherwise cool with it. And then, if folks are going to approach an artist not on either list, they can inquire as to whether or not said artist would like to be put on a DNP or Allowed list, or if they're only allowing the work to be used for a once-off, and the lists can be updated accordingly.

Because I do agree that individuals approaching every individual artist individually is somewhat unwieldily, both for the requester and the artist, who may be flooded with messages and lack the time to respond to each one with speed and thought. For instance, I've sent artists notes offering to throw money at them for commissions and some of my messages I don't think have even been read LOL!

 

But just to clarify, and reiterate a point stated in multiple already in the thread, if you can't contact an artist, or the artist appears to have gone on some kind of long-term internet hiatus, always assume the default answer is no. That's the safest way to avoid having the artist come back some time down the track and kick up over it, and will save you time having to find a replacement picture for your card from a source that will let you reuse.

 

 

Changing Artwork or Artwork Takedowns

I know that there is a temptation to pride when a cross artist comes by demanding a work be removed, and the temptation is to deny the demand due perhaps to the artist's approach – it’s completely natural not to want to oblige someone if you don’t think they 'used their manners' so to speak. But the long and the short of it is, legally, they don’t really have to. There was an issue, in fact, a few months ago with a site that was doing mass reposting, and refused to take down the work full-stop if they felt the artists slighted ‘could have asked nicer’. The site ended up being taken down by their hosting provider.

I find that from what I've heard from others that one of the things that has made artists particularly cranky is less the reposting, but more that their work wasn't being taken down when they requested it. Many artists will more often than not come in guns blazing, not because they’re mean or selfish, but because they're more accustomed to being met with resistance and not being heeded without the use of aggression than they are to being met with a nod, an ‘okay we’ll take it down’ and a closed book. As sad as it is that things on the internet have reached such a piteous state, artists are more accustomed to being disrespected than treated with respect, and react accordingly.

 

However, if you take the initiative to accommodate an artist who wants their work taken down, it's more likely than not that the artist you have on your hands will calm down. Some will remain stern, but they will appreciate the show of respect. I’ve always been taught, you can’t justify nastiness in response to fairness, and that can apply here too (:

That can also be a good time to (tactfully) ask if there's a compromise they'd be happy with so the card or picture can be reposted, such as a link-back for instance. Some artists will be happy with that if you've showed them some respect by taking down what they asked. But there are still artists who don't like their work reused and will still give a firm no, and they may very well have reasons. So don't expect it to work every time ;) Instead, it'd be best to just have the picture changed, and add the artist’s name and gallery to a Do Not Post list for future reference.

 

 

'The Angry Cashier' Analogyand The Difference Credit Can Make

Without going off too much into repetition of prior points, as has already been mentioned, it's widely considered very disrespectful to not at least credit or link to the artwork's creator, and that can be the biggest insult to the artist if they happen across it. Remember, these artists have spent hours of their time and patience, in some cases days or more, on these individual artworks. And as every artist is different, every artist is going to have a different stance on reuse of their work. So while Artist A might use Creative Commons and not mind about their work being used so long as they're credited, Artist B might not be comfortable with allowing this. And that's not to say that they don't have a reason, perhaps Artist B has been stung in the past, or the work may have been commissioned by another individual and is only being displayed to attract other customers (i.e. portfolio work, and it may be against the agreement between artist and commissioner to allow it to be reposted outside of certain channels). Or it might have a personal meaning they don't want taken out of context.

 

By and large, these are the reasons why people that folks here call 'DA Radicals' exist. In other words, artists that get angry about their work being reused either without their permission or in a way they don't like. In many cases, they've endured more and more of these situations with patience, but it builds up on their frustrations until something comes along that just snaps their last nerves, i.e, the Angry Cashier – she puts up with abuse all day until one little irritant at closing time pushes her one step too far and she explodes in a temper.

Situations like this one can put artists in a mental corner, so to speak. There is a large situation, one they can't get a leg-up on by themselves, and the sense of frustration, hurt and anger manifests in things like the ‘Theft Alert’ journals and forums. Not all artists have a gift of the gab, and see a situation as large as this as almost Sisyphean, or like trying to convince an invading army to just turn around and go home. So they look to other people for help, and that's when things begin to get blown out.

 

 

All Said And Done, Though;

I can definitely sympathise with your consternation at the situation, because no one likes being told not to do something they’re clearly enjoying, and no one likes to be condescended or spoken to in a way they don’t consider to be respectful. Especially if you were previously unaware that what you were doing could cause upset and hurt to the other party. However something I’ve learned in my travels is that sometimes it does help to consider why the person yelling and getting upset is yelling and getting upset. Something has clearly abraded their feelings, and perhaps it is a misunderstanding, or something that we can work out together if we can each try and see where the other is coming from.

 

 

For instance I, like Cubistar, can see that you guys are clearly just having fun. And clearly you’re having a lot of fun, just look at the size of the boards (: Making new cards is a creative outlet for you, just as making art is a creative outlet for us artists. We express ourselves and our imagination through our creation of imagery, you express your creativity and imagination through extending and reinventing the scope of a complex game, which is obviously a creative passion for you all.

I can appreciate that you probably didn't think you were going to upset anyone. Before my courses in copyright and exposure to the creative culture, I myself didn't realise the full extent of what is allowed and what isn't, and what is protected and what isn't. I know better now, but I do remember what it was like to not know.

 

The problem that subsists, however, is that without the art, you feel that your cards will suffer, while the artists feel slighted and disrespected by the large-scale reuse. Exerting our rights over our art is apparently coming across as a trespass against your creativity, just as much as the artists perceive that using their art is a trespass against theirs. So for both parties to come out of this pleased, it’ll help to try and find a peaceful solution that suits both parties, and the good thing is that it's just starting to head in that direction (:

 

 

Bai! Thanks for reading!

[Shaco]

Well, that was quite a long read.

 

*sigh* After reading that, I am more aware than ever of your "radical" group's epic stupidity! Why in God's name do you expect us to respect you and your cruddy art! I'll violate every © law around before I consider the BS you're trying to feed to me! ... *snicker* I'm just messing with you. That made me much more sympathetic to what you artists are going through, and I find myself much more motivated and willing to take the extra steps.

 

 

P.S. Sorry if I was a bit misleading at the start of the post ^^

[Cyber Altair]

I agree with what you want and i already discussed this with another member of DA and i will start asking permission.

[Cubistar]

Thank you, Atateatarin. That definitely brought up some things that I completely bypassed, haha. I forgot all about the artists name in the link thing, so it's good you stopped by! And a lot of what you said it useful information! I kind of feel silly forgetting to mention some of those things, lol.

 

HOWEVER.

I am proud of all of you for taking that simple step to change! Honestly, I wish more places could be as kind and willing to change as this! Such a little push in the right direction can make such a big difference.

 

I feel lame for saying thank you a million times, but really, I mean it completely. Thank you.

 

And also, please. Never be afraid to contact me if you have any questions or concerns, or just want to chat. Seriously :)

 

If you want my dev link, aim, or anything, just pop me a message, okay? I swear I don't bite! (The worst I might be is busy with commissions, haha.)

 

I can't sleep right now... so if I'm not on later, it means I crashed. But hopefully I'll be available most of the day :)

[Junk Raver]

Thank you for that Atateatarin, it might make other members also change their minds

 

but even if for now, some of us do the right thing, its assured that others will follow ^_^

 

I think we are all happy to abide by these new suggestions

 

the only problem is we have 2 sides to deal with

 

your side, the peaceful understanding ppl, and the idiotic brainless idiots who think agressive talk is the answer, much like that 'Junemonster'

 

 

Atateatarin, if possible, can you like cubistar, try to tell everyone on DA the situation is slowly been sorted, thank you ^_^

[Cyber Altair]

Thank you for that Atateatarin' date=' it might make other members also change their minds

 

but even if for now, some of us do the right thing, its assured that others will follow ^_^

 

I think we are all happy to abide by these new suggestions

 

the only problem is we have 2 sides to deal with

 

your side, the peaceful understanding ppl, and the idiotic brainless idiots who think agressive talk is the answer, much like that 'Junemonster'

 

 

[b']Atateatarin, if possible, can you like cubistar, try to tell everyone on DA the situation is slowly been sorted, thank you ^_^[/b]

 

yes, it might stop some DA people who may be a bit immature from coming here and well just ruin the progress that we have made.

 

see we are mature with all people exept Gamefag people lol, well at least with most of them.

[Draco Straybyrn]

tl;dr.

 

Actually, I did read it. Nice bit of thought went into it. Now take that, and put it into cards, and that's what we do. =p

 

Anywho, I put a disclaimer on my cards. And the artists' names weren't on them... so... if they see it, I'll take it down upon request.

[Alordzynix]

I think it isn't good for copying and stuff but there some realy good pictures and I'm affraid alot of members would say no. I'm absoluty not good at drawing art. I personaly think that this is the best thing I ever drew and I did it with a book with a picture of that bird so it wasn't that difficult. I would give credit if I could remeber names for my old files but for all new sets I will make that don't have a picture will be sure to have credit.

[Kocrow17]

Here we are, ppls: The "YCM and DA" United Peace Organization

 

Discussion can be carried out there.

[lord609]

hi to all

[Junk Raver]

hi to all

 

My My, you clearly know how to spam

 

And bring back topics that have been resolved.

 

See the link in the above post of yours if you want to further talk about the matter