The "YCM and DA" United Peace Organization

[Kocrow17]

This organization is meant end this little scuffle between the “Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Maker Forum” and “DeviantArt”. The creation of this group was inspired by the post created by Cubistar, a DA member who came to YCM with the following message:

 

[spoiler=Cubistar’s Post]

First' date=' I'm not here to harass. I don't think what people said at first was the right thing to say. Calling you 'f*cking art thieves' was not the way to go.

 

But I do have a feeling that if we kindly asked you to remove the artwork, you wouldn't have, either.

 

It is art theft, people... the artists don't want you using their artwork without their expressed permission, and while you don't take the credit, you neither give them credit, which is just the same as stealing...

 

I have reported you to the MyBB company. I do hope that if they don't take down your board, that you guys at least start asking the artists for their permission.

 

"I didn't know" is never an excuse.

Taking without asking is ALWAYS stealing. Always. Life's rules are the same way, so how is it any different in the internet community?

 

I'm not trying to be immature. I'm not trying to be a jerk.

I'm just trying to tell you, as a civil artist. Please, stop stealing works, and just ask first... sometimes all they'll ask for is a simple watermark in the corner!

 

So, if you want to come her calling me a jerk, insulting the members and all that jazz, then you're simply solidifying the opinion that's out there of you being childish bratty art thieves.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

I'm expecting the ban, and I don't plan to ever come back here to argue, (maybe to check your response, if any), so don't fret your little spiky haired heads over it.

 

I hope the fact that I came here in a civil, polite, and intelligent matter helps.

 

Thank you for your time.

[/quote']

 

[spoiler=My Response]

ATTENTION YCM' date=' THIS IS A PLACE OF SERIOUS DISCUSSION. DO NOT POST TO FLAME OR ACT IMMATURELY. THIS IS YOUR WARNING.[/b']

 

 

Not only the civil manner, but the fact you posted this in your own thread rather than focusing on a specific member helps. I ban DA Radicals for harassing the individual members, as it's far from the answer.

 

I can really understand it can be horrible to have your work stolen. To be honest, I think the correct action was to report the site to the "MyBB" company. Because honestly, the members won't change on their own. They need someone in authority to direct them. I wouldn't mind if requesting art became a rule. It would be a major inconvenience, but still a just rule.

 

I'm not for or agaisnt your cause. I will always act on the best interests of the forum. But you at least made the right decision to get something done.

 

 

 

From that thread (FOUND HERE), and further conversation with the DA/YCM Member, Tiberas, I have come up with the following proposal:

 

[spoiler=Kaze’s Proposal]

After conversing extensively with one of the DA Members on MSN' date=' I have decided that to simply asking members to request art from its owner would be too much to ask. The process of giving credit where credit is do will have to start small and work its way to the goal presented by the DA Radicals. We need to work this problem out in a long-term solution.

 

As the Official Custom Cards Moderator now that TotalObelisk is inactive, I can create new rules regarding the section that must be followed unless YCMaker chooses to revoke them. That’s why I propose the following:

 

We start with a simple disclaimer in main post on threads that members that states that we do not own the artwork. Something along the lines of: “I do not own the artworks to these cards. I only use them as a means to increase the overall quality and effect of my work. I do not claim ownership of them”. Of course, each member would have their own rendition of the disclaimer.

 

Next would come sighting some of their work, either on he post or on the cards. An example is this card I made for a DA Members who is also a friend of mine:

[spoiler=Example']

 

I have clearly labeled “Art © Fleasan”, as that is what my friend prefers to be called online.

 

Finally would come the movement of having to ask to use the artwork of the artist. This is the largest and most difficult change the forum would need to make, and it is far from ready to make it. I do not want to take this step until it becomes clear that it is absolutely required.

 

To summerize:

Step 1: Start Disclaimers

Step 2: Cite Art

Step 3: Request Art

 

This would all happen over a long period of time. The transition would be slow, but it would at least be some ground gained.

 

What say all of you? Should this be put into effect?

 

 

 

 

 

There are matters that still need addressing, and those on the DA side need to be notified we are working on the problem. I welcome all members who want to join, either to discuss the issue (not argue), or offer assistance in enforcement.

[Cubistar]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset, but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[Azwolop]

i personally find my idea a bit more effective?

 

each member of YCM makes a little tag, and when they find a good artist on dA, they ask for permission too use their pictures. if the artist agree's , the artist can take the members tag, and place it on their dA page somewhere, too show that they allow that member access to their images?

 

this would probably be more suitable for the dA members that want too know if someone is using their art

[Cyber Altair]

ok, we need to have a talk like matuare adults (not like googler lol) and just come to a dicision, we at YCM want art for cards, we dont mind restrictions but just not be too long like a day or even 2 at max. but if it will take us a long time to use the image then it's not fine by us cause the whole forum will fail.

[Kocrow17]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

i personally find my idea a bit more effective?

 

each member of YCM makes a little tag, and when they find a good artist on dA, they ask for permission too use their pictures. if the artist agree's , the artist can take the members tag, and place it on their dA page somewhere, too show that they allow that member access to their images?

 

this would probably be more suitable for the dA members that want too know if someone is using their art

I actually think this would work best WITH m proposal. It's going to take the cooperation of both sides to get the desired result. This idea is great, we just need to DA members to cooperate. Though most likely, most of the will refuse, wanting to know exactly which of their art is being used and when. We'll have to wait and see their reaction.

 

ok' date=' we need to have a talk like matuare adults (not like googler lol) and just come to a dicision, we at YCM want art for cards, we dont mind restrictions but just not be too long like a day or even 2 at max. but if it will take us a long time to use the image then it's not fine by us cause the whole forum will fail.

[/quote']

That's overreacting. We need to approach this situation slowly and carefully. Simply saying, "Let us use your art of the forum will die because we don't want to wait" is a little extreme. We need to set guidelines and introduce the idea of discalimers first, and set examples for the rest of the forum. From there, we can move forward.

[Cyber Altair]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

i personally find my idea a bit more effective?

 

each member of YCM makes a little tag, and when they find a good artist on dA, they ask for permission too use their pictures. if the artist agree's , the artist can take the members tag, and place it on their dA page somewhere, too show that they allow that member access to their images?

 

this would probably be more suitable for the dA members that want too know if someone is using their art

I actually think this would work best WITH m proposal. It's going to take the cooperation of both sides to get the desired result. This idea is great, we just need to DA members to cooperate. Though most likely, most of the will refuse, wanting to know exactly which of their art is being used and when. We'll have to wait and see their reaction.

 

yes cause they would like to know who used the art.

 

also i think that one reason that makes them refuse is wrong editing like cheap holo effects that actually make it worse.

[Cubistar]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

Well, I'd be willing to when I do have the time (which I can't say it really much...). As far as if we see someone who doesn't credit, how would we go about letting them know? Just tell them that the art needs to be credited to the original artist somewhere on the card or post? And if they don't oblige or flame in response? I just want to know what's an acceptable way to handle those situations :) I want to avoid heavy conflict as much as possible ^_^;

[Kocrow17]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

Well, I'd be willing to when I do have the time (which I can't say it really much...). As far as if we see someone who doesn't credit, how would we go about letting them know? Just tell them that the art needs to be credited to the original artist somewhere on the card or post? And if they don't oblige or flame in response? I just want to know what's an acceptable way to handle those situations :) I want to avoid heavy conflict as much as possible ^_^;

Simply notify them that the new forum rules make it so they have to cite their sources/post a disclaimer. If they refuse, or flame in response, notify myself and I'll either:

1) Give the order to correct the prob.

2) Lock the thread and erase the main post.

3) Give the member a temporary ban.

All depending on the severity his/her reponse to you.

 

 

yes cause they would like to know who used the art.

 

also i think that one reason that makes them refuse is wrong editing like cheap holo effects that actually make it worse.

That you would have to ask permission for. If we combine it with Az's tag idea, we could have the emblems have one of 3 coloured borders:

White: You can use my artwork freely and edit it as you wish.

Grey/Silver: You can use my artwork though I ask you notify me when you do so.

Black: YOU MUST ASK TO USE MY ART AT ALL TIMES.

 

OR something like that.

[Cyber Altair]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

Well, I'd be willing to when I do have the time (which I can't say it really much...). As far as if we see someone who doesn't credit, how would we go about letting them know? Just tell them that the art needs to be credited to the original artist somewhere on the card or post? And if they don't oblige or flame in response? I just want to know what's an acceptable way to handle those situations :) I want to avoid heavy conflict as much as possible ^_^;

Simply notify them that the new forum rules make it so they have to cite their sources/post a disclaimer. If they refuse, or flame in response, notify myself and I'll either:

1) Give the order to correct the prob.

2) Lock the thread and erase the main post.

3) Give the member a temporary ban.

All depending on the severity his/her reponse to you.

 

 

yes cause they would like to know who used the art.

 

also i think that one reason that makes them refuse is wrong editing like cheap holo effects that actually make it worse.

That you would have to ask permission for. If we combine it with Az's tag idea, we could have the emblems have one of 3 coloured borders:

White: You can use my artwork freely and edit it as you wish.

Grey/Silver: You can use my artwork though I ask you notify me when you do so.

Black: YOU MUST ASK TO USE MY ART AT ALL TIMES.

 

OR something like that.

 

but that would be hard and troublesome for DA members.

[Kizzi]

I have posted left on right on deviantart that things are being done to resolve the problem.

 

I'm already getting some people upset' date=' but if that's what they're getting upset about, then I'd hate to see what they're like during a REAL issue...

 

Reguardless.

This means a lot to me.

 

I had never actually intended to say anything to begin with, and now I'm glad I did.

 

The cooperation has been marvelous, and the fact that everyone's taking to it so well is absolutely great! Thank you all, so much. <3

[/quote']

No problem. Hopefully they'll at least stop that attacks, that's my #1 concern on this whole situation. But it would be nice if designated DA members are willing to help monitor the threads (no flaming of course).

 

Well, I'd be willing to when I do have the time (which I can't say it really much...). As far as if we see someone who doesn't credit, how would we go about letting them know? Just tell them that the art needs to be credited to the original artist somewhere on the card or post? And if they don't oblige or flame in response? I just want to know what's an acceptable way to handle those situations :) I want to avoid heavy conflict as much as possible ^_^;

Simply notify them that the new forum rules make it so they have to cite their sources/post a disclaimer. If they refuse, or flame in response, notify myself and I'll either:

1) Give the order to correct the prob.

2) Lock the thread and erase the main post.

3) Give the member a temporary ban.

All depending on the severity his/her reponse to you.

 

 

yes cause they would like to know who used the art.

 

also i think that one reason that makes them refuse is wrong editing like cheap holo effects that actually make it worse.

That you would have to ask permission for. If we combine it with Az's tag idea, we could have the emblems have one of 3 coloured borders:

White: You can use my artwork freely and edit it as you wish.

Grey/Silver: You can use my artwork though I ask you notify me when you do so.

Black: YOU MUST ASK TO USE MY ART AT ALL TIMES.

 

OR something like that.

 

but that would be hard and troublesome for DA members.

Yes, however it will help keep the peace. Also, if the artist feels his/her work can be used freely, if they were without tags, he/she may receive a large amount of messages, all with the same answer.

[Junk Raver]

Right i need a post in here

 

Afterall i am the one who has been watching the DA ppl secretly on DA, and the one who found all the DA threads etc.etc.

 

First off this thread is a fantastic idea, it can sovle the problem in a suited section, and not cause hassle to others.

 

 

I feel the first thing we need to do really is calm all the DA members, and tell them the situation will be sorted, once they are finally chill and willing to let us fix the problem, then, we fix it by doing Kaze's suggestions.

[Cyber Altair]

Right i need a post in here

 

Afterall i am the one who has been watching the DA ppl secretly on DA' date=' and the one who found all the DA threads etc.etc.

 

First off this thread is a fantastic idea, it can sovle the problem in a suited section, and not cause hassle to others.

 

 

I feel the first thing we need to do really is calm all the DA members, and tell them the situation will be sorted, once they are finally chill and willing to let us fix the problem, then, we fix it by doing Kaze's suggestions.

[/quote']

 

yes, i may go thier and try to calm things down there.

 

what do you think? dont worry i will stay calm and act mature no matter what happens.

[Junk Raver]

CD no offense, but we need someone who knows the entire situation at hand, and that had fantastic communication skills

 

Kaze, Tkill and myself know the full extent of what has been going on, thus we truely are the only ones that should go there

 

but

 

saying that, going there would perhaps make matters worse

 

Let the Nice DA members handle them, we need to handle the members of this forum, and support and backup and ENFORCE, kaze's new rules.

[SushiTheLegend]

I have an idea that uses Azwolop's idea. How about we have a tag that DA members who allow us to use their work via permission can hold to show that they allow members of YCM to use their art for cards only. And theres also something else...might I suggest that Cubi be the connection between YCM and DA for the simple fact he came to us without flaming, etc, thus making him one of the best connections. ^^

[Cyber Altair]

CD no offense' date=' but we need someone who knows the entire situation at hand, and that had fantastic communication skills

 

Kaze, Tkill and myself know the full extent of what has been going on, thus we truely are the only ones that should go there

 

but

 

saying that, going there would perhaps make matters worse

 

Let the Nice DA members handle them, we need to handle the members of this forum, and support and backup and ENFORCE, kaze's new rules.

[/quote']

 

wow, you really dont know me.

 

anyway we here can help enforce the new rule while they try to disscuss what suits them.

[Tefached]

Can i join. Ive been gone so i didnt know of the rule till today and im for it.

[Cubistar]

I'd like to point out I'm a she ;)

 

Aaaand anyways, I'm not quite sure exactly how the 'connection' may work. I'm never on the forums, so my contacts would be limited unless I decided to pop in there.

 

I think it's great everyone's pitching in ideas however :)

[Cyber Altair]

it was established today and i applied it first on my new card ^_^. talk about cards that go throught history of YCM. anyway i think we should leave this to Kaze but we should advice members to follow this rule.

[Tiberas]

I'd like to point out that there is a Creative Commons Licensing option that some artists use. If you don't want to ask the artist, you could check if they chose a written licensing option for their art (it shows up for each piece of art if the artist uses it). If you don't see it, take the time to write a simple note/email/pm. If you don't want to wait, go ahead and use it. But if the artist comes to you and tells you to remove their art, no matter how angry and impolite they may come across to be, they still reserve their right to their art and you will need to respect that and do as requested.

 

Also, the DA forum mod idea is pretty cool. It may help to point out illegal use of art before angry artists storm in and kill things.

 

As for the rule, I really suggest it being strictly enforced. If anything, giving credit will deter angry artists from flaming even if they didn't give you permission to use their art. At the very least they KNOW you aren't trying to pass it off as yours and at least they KNOW you respect the fact they made it and that you do not own it whatsoever. It's easy to forget people's rights to their work on the internet, but rights still exist.

 

If people do refuse to remove art despite request by the original artist, it may seem extreme, but I recommend the cards be taken off the site and talk to the poster about why their creations were taken off. A ban isn't necessary unless they become hostile and start being all "omgs, they put it on the internet for everyone to see, they have nothing to whine about".

 

 

Cubistar has made a long post on DA about the situation being resolved, hopefully we'll see a decline in DA flamers from now on.

[Cyber Altair]

that's good, we hope we can get to an understanding soon.

[God GAK]

As i see the situation has started being more complicated. As Tiberas said, we never want to STEAL their art but we also never give credit to those people about the hard work they did.

 

I just hope that we won't break that rule and i rep kaze for making this thread

[Cyber Altair]

yes, lets just give them respect and walk selintly lol.

 

but we should have someone to keep an eye for this new rule and check that everyone is following it.

[Guest Supreme Gamesmaster]

Now, I'm no dA member, but I am a spriter. Y'know, one of those people who work with these teeny little dots on their computer screen to make them into attractive images, which may or may not be more difficult than actual art. What few 48-hour-to-make labors of love I've aired online, I have no problem with other people using in any way, shape, or form, so long as they don't overtly or covertly say it's not mine, or make it look like crap. Giving credit to the original artist in the circulation section is a brilliant idea, since nobody ever uses the circulation section anyway. Why move forward? If they wanna be jerks about it and/or over-territorial about their artwork and not tell us until it's to late, let them and IP ban them.

 

One connection won't be enough, I can already tell. We'll need multiple ambassadors from both sides. I think that something good might actually come out of the whole dA problem. It could result in a mass recruiting spree on both sides. The sites might even band together or something. Oh, and it would eliminate about half the n00bish flamers on the forum.

[NP Sage]

This is stupied let them yell at us and then we ban them. the quickest way to end a problem is the kill the enemy (hacking DA is a bit extreme) so ban them.

[Guest Supreme Gamesmaster]

NP, you could very well be labeled a "YCM Radical." dA members are trying to defend their website too.