El Majishan Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1316291673' post='5520875'] Hypocricy hides behind a veil of normalcy, y'know =/ As Cursed said, you should be ditchign something dead, not a staple or, say, Rekindling. You're a moron if you do that. If Tour guide gets veil'd you're open to OTKs just as much as monk. [/quote] What part of "but you don't -1 yourself" don't you get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 [quote name='Mark of the Bloo-D Rose' timestamp='1316291949' post='5520881'] What part of "but you don't -1 yourself" don't you get? [/quote] What part of "Solemn WArning stops Quasar and you -3 yourself" don't YOU get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 If you kill off a combo idea solely on the notion that you might get Veiler'd, it's unfair to the idea behind the combo. Just like how [i]someone[/i] mentioned Solemn Warning existing means Shi En is easily countered. If it doesn't get Veiler'd, it's a cool combo, but you have to put a major risk into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1316293282' post='5520917'] If you kill off a combo idea solely on the notion that you might get Veiler'd, it's unfair to the idea behind the combo. Just like how [i]someone[/i] mentioned Solemn Warning existing means Shi En is easily countered. [/quote] I remember that day. I think it was the first time, if I recall correctly, that a certain [i]someone[/i] said "f***". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberCruncher Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yeah, I don't really see Bloo-D Rose's point. You usually wouldn't use Summoner Monk to discard a useful card, and he usually ends games in decks like Gadgets and Scraps. It's like saying using scrap Dragon to destroy a face-down monster using a Dead Trap is bad because it might be Sangan and you would -1 yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Monk is only good a few and I mean a few decks (I play scraps and its still meh in there IMO..I just don't have anything better to replace it with atm), in other words Decks that can make up from the cost of Monk ( eg Gadgets or decks that run Crane/Blast Fan) But whatever it seems that -1 Synchros and Exceeds are good now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Mark of the Bloo-D Rose' timestamp='1316326997' post='5522391']But whatever it seems that -1 Synchros and Exceeds are good now. [/quote] They aren't, and will be never. If it doesn't get Veiler'd this works, and that's sorta why I bothered to post this. -.- Besides, this combo will never be top-tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1316290614' post='5520849'] Weren't you the one bitching about people hopping on other's view points? Using veiler is a terrible argument [/quote] If a card is already widely used, it can be a good reason not to play something. It just depends on how severe it'd be in terms of advantage. Veiler is the sole reason why Future Fusion 1-card FTK didn't completely dominate last format. That being said, Veiler is a terrible argument against this specific combo because the result would be but a +0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote]Veiler is the sole reason why Future Fusion 1-card FTK didn't completely dominate last format.[/quote] lololololololol. Do you realise how inconsistent that FTK is? It relies on you not drawing any of the components of your combo, otherwise you basically lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1316340288' post='5522522'] Veiler is the sole reason why Future Fusion 1-card FTK didn't completely dominate last format. [/quote] OH LAWD Someone calculate the percentage of wining with that FTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Ｈorus' timestamp='1316341196' post='5522532'] OH LAWD Someone calculate the percentage of wining with that FTK. [/quote] Nearly exactly 15% and most likely less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Wait, what? How does it matter if you draw one copy of the material when you've another copy in the deck, or Moray of Greed to return it? Meh, I couldn't be assed to actually test its consistency myself because I did that the previous two times with Infernities and Frogs, and it was boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilhorus Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316341773' post='5522542'] Nearly exactly 15% and most likely less than that. [/quote] I'd guess less than that. What [b]are[/b] the consistent FTK's? I remember the "Gods" had an FTK with a FTK percentage in the 80%s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Ｈorus' timestamp='1316342503' post='5522547'] I'd guess less than that. What [b]are[/b] the consistent FTK's? I remember the "Gods" had an FTK with a FTK percentage in the 80%s. [/quote] It is quite a bit less, since if you draw Zephyros or a HERO, you doesn't work. So it's actually about 10%. Empty Jar FTKs 70% of the time. FishFTK, in March, FTKs about 80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Answer me already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1316345349' post='5522604'] Answer me already. [/quote] FuFu FTK doesn't use Moray of Greed. They usually only run a small Frog engine at most. And it matters if you draw another copy because you need all the copies to keep up the FTK :/ And some of them don't have copies: If you draw Zephyros the Elite, you lose. If you draw more than 1 Volcanic Shell, you lose. If you draw a HERO, you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316345575' post='5522606'] FuFu FTK doesn't use Moray of Greed. [/quote] The build I know does, and runs enough Water monsters for it. [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316345575' post='5522606'] And it matters if you draw another copy because you need all the copies to keep up the FTK :/ [/quote] Name that cards needed in threes for it. [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316345575' post='5522606'] And some of them don't have copies: If you draw Zephyros the Elite, you lose. [/quote] Zephyros isn't limited. And wasn't there Plaguespreader against cards you need in the deck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1316345349' post='5522604'] Answer me already. [/quote] ITT: Zephirus and Plague are Moray targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1316346062' post='5522612'] The build I know does, and runs enough Water monsters for it. [b]LOLOLOL. Show me the build, and then we'll see if it works.[/b] Name that cards needed in threes for it. [b]You need 7 E-Heros exactly for the combo. You have to not draw any of those heros in your first turn, otherwise you cannot FTK.[/b] Zephyros isn't limited. [b]Have you even seen the effect condition :/[/b] And wasn't there Plaguespreader against cards you need in the deck? [b]Wat. Me no understand u.[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 There's the build that ran E-HERO Ice Edge and whatnot, but the deck didn't dominate because it was inconsistent. [quote name='Exiro Divinus' timestamp='1316340288' post='5522522'] If a card is already widely used, it can be a good reason not to play something. [/quote] Solemn Warning and Judgment are widely used, we shouldn't run any monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 Running Ice Edge did nothing for the deck. Anyway, that build ran Clayman so no-one cares. It goes like this: Run more than 7 Heroes, and ruin your consistency horribly. Run less than 7 Heroes, you can't FTK. Run 7 Heroes, if you draw 1, you lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316353008' post='5522755'] Running Ice Edge did nothing for the deck. Anyway, that build ran Clayman so no-one cares. It goes like this: Run more than 7 Heroes, and ruin your consistency horribly. Run less than 7 Heroes, you can't FTK. Run 7 Heroes, if you draw 1, you lose. [/quote] [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316353008' post='5522755'] Anyway, that build ran Clayman so no-one cares. [/quote] No it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 It did. It ran: 3 Alius 3 Ice Edge 2 Clayman 2 Malicious 1 Stratos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1316353231' post='5522764'] It did. It ran: 3 Alius 3 Ice Edge 2 Clayman 2 Malicious 1 Stratos [/quote] No it didn't. The Ice Edge version ran Ocean, not Clayman. It was designed so you either FTK'd or played like regular HEROs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiro Posted September 18, 2011 Report Share Posted September 18, 2011 K, I'm too lazy to look at that video again. Maybe some other day. [quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1316352901' post='5522751'] There's the build that ran E-HERO Ice Edge and whatnot, but the deck didn't dominate because it was inconsistent. Solemn Warning and Judgment are widely used, we shouldn't run any monsters. [/quote] [s]I said 'can be' and explained it the very next sentence. Is it hard to read nowadays? f***ing [color=#ff8c00]steve jobs[/color].[/s] MST is widely used, we should run any Solemns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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