Chaos Support

[thekazu4u]

Well we got enough DARK cards for chaos: plaguespreader, tour guides, sangan, etc... but we ain't got many light monsters. Now we do (and one more DARK as well).
[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/22380.jpg[/img]
You can Special Summon this card from your Hand or Graveyard by returning to your hand 1 Face-Up DARK monster you control.

[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/22383.jpg[/img]
You can Special Summon this card (from your Hand) by Banishing one DARK monster in your Deck. During the End Phase of a turn this card is sent to the Graveyard: banish this card and add one of your banished DARK monsters to your hand.

[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/22378.jpg[/img]

[left]You can Special Summon this card (from your hand) by returning one Banished card to your Deck.[/left]

[img]http://yugico.com/customcard/22387.jpg[/img]

[color=#000000][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][size=3][left]Once per turn: You can detach 1 LIGHT or DARK Xyz Material from this card to target 1 banished monster of the same attribute; Adding that target to your hand.[/left][/size][/font][/color]

[Blake]

Anark: There's a REASON Genex Ally Birdman banishes itself after using its effect, which only works from hand, and Blackwing - Zephyros the Elite is ONCE PER DUEL =/

Granted, Zephyros can bounce S/T as well, and Birdman's a tuner, but this is also abusable as all hell.

It's a +1 LIGHT Fairy. Given some of the easy summoning conditions of Fairies, this is just stupid.

Have Hyperion, use its effect, destroy 1, bounce it, banish agent in Grave, repeat.

Also, grave manipulaton for Archlord Kristya

Not to mention Tengu and Tour Guide and the like.

Last Warrior: The second is just insanely broken.

Ever heard of D.D. Scout Plane? And that's a BAD use for this walking +1

In addition, you can banish ANY DARK Then, it doesn't miss timing when SENT to the grave. I banish Dark Armed Dragon and then I sync/Xyz with it

Oh, and, even better, it works with Foolish Burial, given you have a banished DARK.

Both of these are terrible card design =/

EDIT: And why on EARTH do you think supporting Chaos is in any way a good idea?

[thekazu4u]

How about these changes:
[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]You can Special Summon this card from your Hand or Graveyard by returning to your hand one Face-Up [u]DARK [/u]monster you control. (for no Hyperion badness. Now the worst they can do is something like Tour Guide.)[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]You can Special Summon this card (from your Hand) by Banishing one DARK monster in your Deck [u]Face-Down[/u]. When this card is sent to the Graveyard: banish this card and add one of your [u]face-down Banished cards[/u] to your hand.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Now no foolish burial problems (because something needs to be face down in the first place) and it cant do badness with scout plane or the like, because it is banished face-down. [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][/size][/font][/color]

[Blake]

The first is still damn broken because it's infinitely abusable Xyz/Synchro fodder ._.

And bouncing Doppelwarrior or T.G. Warwolf will just bring them right back.

The second is STILL hideously broken. It's a self summoning searcher for DARK that doesn't miss timing and thins your deck ._.

It's a +0 Synchro or Xyz waiting to happen.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328292154' post='5796819']
The first is still damn broken because it's infinitely abusable Xyz/Synchro fodder ._.

And bouncing Doppelwarrior or T.G. Warwolf will just bring them right back.[/quote]

Because there are not another million cards that can do this. ~.~

[QUOTE] The second is STILL hideously broken. It's a self summoning searcher for DARK that doesn't miss timing and thins your deck ._.

It's a +0 Synchro or Xyz waiting to happen.
[/quote]

Ok, it is now Level 4 or Lower. I am not bashing it any more than that.

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328293782' post='5796856']
Because there are not another million cards that can do this. ~.~

Ok, it is now Level 4 or Lower. I am not bashing it any more than that.
[/quote]
That's a stupid argument, because that just proves my point ._.

It's still a search for any 4 or lower DARK which is insanely broken. I mean, have you read Sangan? It's @1 for beign a +0 Synchro that searches any 1500 or lower. Searching any DARK is worse.

Tour Guide, Inzektors, Sangan, Phantom of Chaos, Summoner Monk, and the list is ridiculously large. Card is still damn broken.

[thekazu4u]

I am not sure if you do not understand sarcasm or your logic is just terrible. In any case, the first card is fine unless somebody can come up with a new way. The whole point of the card is a weakened but endless Zephyros. Which it is. So yea.

The 2nd card is a bit broken and is meant to be limited, but it is not banworthy and I want to keep the idea the same, so if you can come up with some limiting factor then that would be good, but if you just want to destroy the card I am not going to do that. Also, it is a Secret Rare. Konami makes [b]ALL [/b]of those broken.

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328300743' post='5797003']
I am not sure if you do not understand sarcasm or your logic is just terrible. In any case, the first card is fine unless somebody can come up with a new way. The whole point of the card is a weakened but endless Zephyros. Which it is. So yea.

The 2nd card is a bit broken and is meant to be limited, but it is not banworthy and I want to keep the idea the same, so if you can come up with some limiting factor then that would be good, but if you just want to destroy the card I am not going to do that. Also, it is a Secret Rare. Konami makes [b]ALL [/b]of those broken.
[/quote]
Weakened but Endless Zephyros IS broken. Just because it's not endlessly broken NOW doesn't mean it's not bad card design. It's horrendous, in that aspect. It's just countless plus 1s/plus 0 Synchros and Xyz. Dark Armed Dragon, Doppelwarrior, T.G. Warwolf, etc. abuse it to no end, with no justification on your part.

Last Warrior's not a bit, it's banworthy. It's a self-summoning Xyz/Synchro MAterial that automatically refunds itself. Not to mention it doesn't even take up a normal summon

Rarities don't matter because they don't make most Secrets broken, they only make a few. Hell, D-Boys is a secret, and it's terrible. On top of that, this is RC. Declaring CARD IS RARE SO IT'S BALANCED is really stupid.

What it needs is to not be able to grab anything it banishes from deck. The SS isn't broken, until you add in the fact that it's a searcher for Lv. 4 or lower DARKs. [url="http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120117034145/yugioh/images/thumb/2/2f/CreepingDarkness-ORCS-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-CreepingDarkness-ORCS-EN-SR-1E.jpg"]Creeping Darkness[/url] is only able to grab Lv. 4s for a reason. 4 or lower is hideously broken, even with the cost of banishing 2 darks in Grave, if that can even be considered a cost. This has even LESS cost and more targets. Only way to stop it is, really, Bottomless Trap Hole, and arguing that it can be countered is also really stupid.

Last Warrior is insanely broken, no matter how much you nerfed it from the original. It needs more specific restrictions as to what it can grab, or to add the card to hand in the End Phase.

Oh, and I forgot

It dodges Rai-oh and Reinforcement of the Army searches it ._.

[thekazu4u]

~.~ saying a card will be broken in the future does not say anything. If anything, it would give people an incentive to actually invest in cards for the future, maybe a card that does [b]NOT go down in value.[/b]

Adding in the End Phase seems reasonable, OR something like only DARK monsters with 1000 or less ATK. I will be thinking about which style serves the card more. Personally, I am leaning toward the first because it hurts FTKs while still being able to search for more of the cards I originally intended it to.

[Blake]

This card isn't getting printed. Stop acting like it will be and using that as a counter to it's brokenness. It's BAD CARD DESIGN that will inevitably be even more broken than it is now. It needs a clause to kill itself off, somehow, I revived from grave.


It's a Reinforcement of the Army target that dodges Rai-oh. If you make it 1000 or lower, it still grabs Hornet, Dragonfly, Tour Guide, Sangan, Phantom of Chaos, Summoned Monk, and a plethora of other cards.

And even with it being End Phase, still not balanced.

[thekazu4u]

You really think everything is broken. Even when I do both the suggestions you make you still say it is bad. I am going to make it End Phase and no need to hit it any more.

And back to Immortal Angel: I never said it will get printed, I just said it is like a card that would be. The card will become more broken than it is now in the future (many cards do) but because of power creep it will (probably) not be any more powerful [b]RELATIVE TO OTHER CARDS IN META [/b]than it is now. You cannot use the power of a card in the future to evaluate its brokenness in the context of the current meta. Also, I have no idea what this means: [quote] [color=#5A5A5A][font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]It needs a clause to kill itself off, somehow, I revived from grave. [/Quote] Please explain.[/size][/font][/color]

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328303411' post='5797086']
You really think everything is broken. Even when I do both the suggestions you make you still say it is bad. I am going to make it End Phase and no need to hit it any more.

And back to Immortal Angel: I never said it will get printed, I just said it is like a card that would be. The card will become more broken than it is now in the future (many cards do) but because of power creep it will (probably) not be any more powerful [b]RELATIVE TO OTHER CARDS IN META [/b]than it is now. You cannot use the power of a card in the future to evaluate its brokenness in the context of the current meta. Also, I have no idea what this means: Please explain.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
It still need to be hit. It's a LIGHT Level 3 Warrior that dodges Rai-Oh. That is REALLY broken, even still.

It's BAD DESIGN. It's abusable now, so it'll be more abusable later. You can use power creep because it's going to keep creeping, and this type of card is broken NOW.

It needs to banish itself or something after it uses its effect.

And this new card... Why. It's, basically, Phantom of Chaos but doesn't use up a normal summon, which is what balances PoC, along with the inability to deal battle damage.

Yes, this is a Nomi, but when you can just summon it by banishing Sky Scourge Norleras, it's really damn broken. Lavalval Chain stacks something then you use this, and you draw into what you stacked. Something that'll benefit you by drawing it.

The only thing it has in exchange is that it's slightly less searchable than PoC, but the fact you can run both in the same deck is just adding consistency.

Not to be mean, but you just have problems with card design overall, so you should really find a mentor or something =T

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328304274' post='5797106']
And this new card... Why. It's, basically, Phantom of Chaos but doesn't use up a normal summon, which is what balances PoC, along with the inability to deal battle damage.

Yes, this is a Nomi, but when you can just summon it by banishing Sky Scourge Norleras, it's really damn broken. Lavalval Chain stacks something then you use this, and you draw into what you stacked. Something that'll benefit you by drawing it.
[/quote]
This card does NOT gain ATK/DEF, so inability to deal damage is built in. If they do something to it, keeping it on the field, you basically lose. Anybody thinks that Phantom of Chaos needs to have any balancing factor as if it is at all OP'd needs to know the game. I have decided you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop posting on this thread, I want real comments not just some guy saying everything is broken.

Comments and improvements =/= random bashing of every card you see.

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328304741' post='5797114']
This card does NOT gain ATK/DEF, so inability to deal damage is built in. If they do something to it, keeping it on the field, you basically lose. Anybody thinks that Phantom of Chaos needs to have any balancing factor as if it is at all OP'd needs to know the game. I have decided you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop posting on this thread, I want real comments not just some guy saying everything is broken.

Comments and improvements =/= random bashing of every card you see.
[/quote]
I missed that

There's no way to keep it on the field, because if negated it's a level 1 that gets used as a Synchro material monster ._.

I never said Phantom was broken, because it isn't. This, however, is, as it adds more consistency to decks like Dragon Nohr, and it doesn't use your normal summon like Phantom does. It adds consistency to Lavalval Chain + PoC plays, considerign this is an alternate to PoC. Essentially, nuke the field and stack The Dark Creator/Elemental HERO Bubbleman/etc, and proceed to laugh as you just wasted them completely.

I'm not bashing, and if you think I am, grow up and stop resultign to petty insults =/

I was even talking to Icy earlier and he saw nothing wrong with what I was saying.

I just tried to explain to you how your cards are broken and need to be fixed, and you got angry. If you can't accept help, fine, keep making broken and poorly designed cards. Your cards are broken and they'd do hell to the metagame if they were released, whether you seem to realize it or not.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328305150' post='5797130']
I missed that

There's no way to keep it on the field, because if negated it's a level 1 that gets used as a Synchro material monster ._.

I never said Phantom was broken, because it isn't. This, however, is, as it adds more consistency to decks like Dragon Nohr, and it doesn't use your normal summon like Phantom does. It adds consistency to Lavalval Chain + PoC plays, considerign this is an alternate to PoC. Essentially, nuke the field and stack The Dark Creator/Elemental HERO Bubbleman/etc, and proceed to laugh as you just wasted them completely.

I'm not bashing, and if you think I am, grow up and stop resultign to petty insults =/

I was even talking to Icy earlier and he saw nothing wrong with what I was saying.

I just tried to explain to you how your cards are broken and need to be fixed, and you got angry. If you can't accept help, fine, keep making broken and poorly designed cards. Your cards are broken and they'd do hell to the metagame if they were released, whether you seem to realize it or not.
[/quote]

I can accept help, but lets go over what happened:

1. I make paladin
2. You say to balance it, I try to.
3. You say it is still bad and make suggestions.
4. I say I will follow them
5. You say it is still bad.

-.- If AFTER FOLLOWING YOUR OWN SUGGESTIONS you can do nothing but say how bad my card design is then I am not sure what I am supposed to do.

And regarding Dark Hunter, YES IT IS a version of Phantom of Chaos that copies Level not ATK/DEF and is level 1 and can be Special Summoned and halves your Life Points if it is still out during the end phase. And YES I KNOW it is a bit better than Phantom of Chaos. And YES I KNOW it will increase the power of decks that need phantom of chaos. But what I am saying is [b]THAT IS FINE, THIS IS WHAT I WANTED TO DO.[/b]

OK? Those decks are NOT very good, and NEED the support. Also, it will make a Phantom of Chaos-ish card viable in other decks that would otherwise not play it. [b]I like the mechanic of Phantom of Chaos and that is why I made the card. [/b]

So, if you think the card is over powered, then please say the problem. Otherwise, there is no point to be commenting because so far what you have said is just outlined what I was trying to do.

[Blake]

Making broken support for a deck isn't good design. You need to make balanced support.

Technically, every fix you made to Last Warrior YOU came up with. I didn't give you a specific one, just told you what was broken about it.

If the card is only good in 1 deck and that deck is an OTK deck, the card is, simply, bad card design.

Dark Hunter is broken, considering how MUCH it boosts the consistency of said deck. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

I keep tellign you what's broken and you keep saying "No I want it liek this, I'm nto bashing/hitting it anymore" ._.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Relius Clover' timestamp='1328302393' post='5797032']
It needs more specific restrictions as to what it can grab, or to add the card to hand in the End Phase.
[/quote]

Actually, that is what you said.

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1328321575' post='5797698']
Actually, that is what you said.
[/quote]
I didn't specify anything, so what are you on about?

You kept trying restrictions and I told you they weren't enough. It's Type, Attribute, Level, and every part of Last Warrior is made BROKEN. It enables the Wind-up loop and I'm sure it could be teched in Inzektors. It's a LIGHT, which is one of the best Attributes alongside DARK. It's a Warrior which gives it Reinforcement of the Army, and a few other things. Its effect thins the deck and searches you a monster, even if it's not fast enough to support an OTK with its search. Hell, it's only downside is 1600 ATK, and that just means Bottomless Trap Hole is your one hope of this thing NOT ruining your day.

I can't have you reinvent it completely, because that would destroy the very integrity of the card, but the very design is broken.

[thekazu4u]

So what if I made it level 5 AND it searched in the end phase. And I am not liking Dark Hunter because it does not really support the deck I want it to. I may need to change it a bit. Anyways, another card added.

[Blake]

That... Would make it much better. Still abusable, but can't be recycled by Leviair/Searched by RotA/Used for Wind-up Loop/Used with Inzektors/Go into Chimeratech Fortress Dragon

Seems a lot more balanced that way, but keep the stats low-ish

[thekazu4u]

Same stats. At least that one is "fixed."

The new one is simple but I like. Sorta, I am not sure it would get played. But overall, I like it better than the dark hunter. Need to rework that one.