evilfusion Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1330527944' post='5847700'] ^Bugs Bunny? OT: With all this talk of Avarice I really need to decide if it is worth getting one IRL. And does nobody have a problem with the big 3 Spells? (Dark Hole, Reborn, and Heavy) [/quote] Dark Hole is near harmless in the meta, having little real negative impact since the unbanning. We're getting Torrential at 2. Either monster nukes lost all "brokenness", or it's becoming essential to counter real brokenness. Monster Reborn is roughly the same. It's sacky at times, but it's not as abused as it used to be. Heavy Storm...just look at March 2011 and tell me that was a good format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='-Greiga-' timestamp='1330527181' post='5847686'] BfaDD to 2 and Mezuki to 2 means you can already spam it miore than you can mormally and Zombies are alread better under this list without PSZ, ignoring the Brio @0. You can hit certain decks without hitting their key card, the same can be said to boost certain decks. [/quote] Why not just ax BfaDD since it exists only to keep balanced banishment costs like PSZ at 1 and abuse banishment costs ,then put PSZ at 2 in it's place? It really only exists to be abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 If I hit Rekindling to 2 and Heat Field to 1 then do I still need to hit Handmaiden? I forgot about rabbit because I couldn't be assed to think. Not hitting the 3 spells for now. I need to test Avarice @2 in different decks, since this list itself is still a test build and not final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 It's sad how, given a good hand, wind-ups can still loop with one Boat >= Regardless, Xyz that make themselves +0s are terrible design, and Zenmaity just happens to be that Xyz. And, no, 1 Zenmaity does not destroy them. It weakens then but they can still do lots of stuff with even one. Why do we even allow these topics when they basically into a "NO MY CARD IS GOOD SHUT UP" thread at one point? (null) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1330527495' post='5847690'] Okay, I want to run through these and comment. Banned: - Foolish Burial Foolish I mostly agree with. It's a terrific card, but the setups it provides can get out of hand these days, due to how grave-centric the game is. Dark Worlds dump Grave. Plants would dump the Tuners (now banned, though), Inzektors dump Hornet, Chaos dumps a crucial card to banish, Dragons usually prefer Future Fusion to this, and so on. I probably wouldn't ban it personally, but I have no objections to it. - Brionac Agreed. We have plenty of decent Level 6 Synchros that dont require the absurd level of versatility and game-pushing that this card encourages. - Wind-Up Hunter Fine with me. The loop would be broken for the most part, and makes Wind-Ups a little less cheap, disregarding the fact they can still spam like hell. Without Hunter helping out by removing monsters from the Field and causing discards, the effect of Wind-Ups is hurt a bit. - Black Luster Soldier - Envoy Agreed. Card is too sacky, even though it's no longer the broken monster it used to be back in IOC. But it's still too good, and wins games too easily. That makes drawing a huge, unfair advantage. Limited: -Tour Guide I have no real objection. The Tour Guide engine gave too much access to Rank 3s while fueling Chaos. It can still grab Sangan and Tour Bus, as well as a few more obscure Level 3 Fiends. This will further reduce the consistency of Tour Guide DWs, Inzektor, and Wind-Ups, and make the Rank 3s a little more fair. - Inzektor Centipede Personally, I'd have preferred Dragonfly instead, as Dragonfly is the basis of the huge plus combos, due to SSing another Inzektor directly to the Field to use Hornet again. Centipede may be the Inzektor of choice in that case, but it's much slower than Dragonfly, which is better overall. - Evolzar Laggia I understand this, even if I don't really agree, but I sense I'm biased due to my love of the Rabbit Deck I used for half of last format. And I acknowlege that my Rabbit Deck was cheap as hell and way, way too consistent on opening Rabbit and/or Tour Guide. Semi-Limit - Kalut I don't like this. Kalut is in the same vein as Honest, only Blackwing specific. It'll almost always allow your monster to run over something and do more damage, and with things like Shura, this is not really good. Black Whirlwind also fetches it with relative ease, and there are ways to recycle your Blackwings without an extra copy of Kalut. Hand traps like this are almost too good. - Gale I'm okay with this, but I also dont like it very much. Gale is a bit too easily splashed in Dark-focused Decks, can run over or tie with anything with 2600 ATK or less, can be easily SSed in Blackwings, and the halving is permanent. But if the goal is to boost Blackwings a tiny bit, it's better than Kalut. - Mezuki Hmm...Mezuki is really, really good. The RFG zone is far from inaccessible with things like Leviair, and this gives Zombies a bit too much of a nudge. I would be okay with it, but a bit reluctantly. - Tsukuyomi Why is this at 2, instead of 1? You dont just reintroduce a banned card to the meta without testing its impact at 1 first. It easily abuses Flip Effects and can cause some problems. I'll be fine with it at 1, but 2 off the bat seems like a bad idea. - Burial From a Different Dimension Mezuki at 2 AND this at 2? No. Dont forget, Vayu loves this card, so it boosts Blackwings even MORE. No. Bad, bad choice. - Wind-Up Zenmaity Hitting this and banning Hunter...reasonable. I agree. - Pot of Avarice NO! No, no, no, no! This card should not be allowed at 2. Plants may have been the primary abuser, but it's an amazing card in almost every Deck, especially with Xyz making up such a crucial part of gameplay. Until the format has been tested more thoroughly for the changes involving Tour Guide being Limited and so on, this should not be bumped up yet. Even Decks that dont rely on Guide love this thing. - Rescue Rabbit Yeah, okay. That...seems like a pointless addition, but I'll just say it's fair and go on. Without the consistent instant Leviair that is Tour Guide, nor the spammability of Laggia at 1, I dont think Rabbit would need the hit. Then again, the OCG doesn't have Dolkka or Guide and the Deck is considered good, so... [/quote] This list was made from personal experience and comments I've seen in this section, DN, and IRL. To answer Black, this custom list topic is different beause it's far less biased, allows a wide range of opinion and fixing, and I actually hit the favorite cards I run, such as Laggia and Rabbit and TGU. OCG Rabbit says that 3 is still too consistent because you also have the back of all the Verz Xyz. Brandon already tested Tsuku at all numbers so I used his data and his judgment as well as my own to put it at 2. Putting Avarice back to 1 since everyone seems to agree. mido and evilfusion both seem to think that BfaDD can't come back at the same time as Mezuki, and so I need a 3rd opinion on this as well as opinions on whether to bring back PSZ to 2. Centipede seems like the logical choice and when I pointed out the idea a while ago everyone seemed to agree. Need opinions on Kalut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Only good custom formats are sealed formats, not banlists /t1t2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1330534326' post='5847842'] Only good custom formats are sealed formats, not banlists /t1t2 [/quote] Bad people like me will read this topic and actually learn stuff. Idcare if my format isn't optimal, this discussion is one of TCG's more intellegent ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 TGU and Avarice boost what I run, a ton. I'd still keep Avarice @1 and put Tour Guide @1. I'd put Formula back to 2 given how Spore and Glow-up are gone, but that's the only "biased" move I'd make =/ Actually, let's use that as an argument- Zenmaity is stupid easy to summon. It's similar to Formula in that aspect, at least in Formula's prime, and it's even more broken in its searching capabilities. It's always going to be relatively easy to summon, given how easy it is to spam R3s with or without Tour Guide. In addition, it is a +0 that, unlike formula, searches the deck and Special Summons a monster from the deck that immediately lends to more spam and OTK stuff, with or without Hunter. This same effect has an out to Maxx "C", which Formula does not have. Formula has lost most of its power tuners to make it. It is still easy to summon,but the ones that abuse it, Fishborg, Spore, and Bulb, are dead. It gives you a free draw that CAN lead to more combos, but Zenmaity thins your deck even more, all by itself basically. All this at the cost of not being a Tuner or Syncro/Xyz Material, which doesn't even hurt it, really. It works like Formula used to with the aforementioned Trio, though that was also Librarian's fault, except monsters from the deck, not a free draw. If Formula is @1, there is absolutely no reason Zenmaity should be at more than 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1330534909' post='5847864'] TGU and Avarice boost what I run, a ton. I'd still keep Avarice @1 and put Tour Guide @1. I'd put Formula back to 2 given how Spore and Glow-up are gone, but that's the only "biased" move I'd make =/ Actually, let's use that as an argument- Zenmaity is stupid easy to summon. It's similar to Formula in that aspect, at least in Formula's prime, and it's even more broken in its searching capabilities. It's always going to be relatively easy to summon, given how easy it is to spam R3s with or without Tour Guide. In addition, it is a +0 that, unlike formula, searches the deck and Special Summons a monster from the deck that immediately lends to more spam and OTK stuff, with or without Hunter. This same effect has an out to Maxx "C", which Formula does not have. Formula has lost most of its power tuners to make it. It is still easy to summon,but the ones that abuse it, Fishborg, Spore, and Bulb, are dead. It gives you a free draw that CAN lead to more combos, but Zenmaity thins your deck even more, all by itself basically. All this at the cost of not being a Tuner or Syncro/Xyz Material, which doesn't even hurt it, really. It works like Formula used to with the aforementioned Trio, though that was also Librarian's fault, except monsters from the deck, not a free draw. If Formula is @1, there is absolutely no reason Zenmaity should be at more than 1. [/quote] I need more opinions on this, that is, Formula to 2 and Zenmaighty to 1. Also explain specifically why unless someone already used your reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Earth to 3, Hyp to 1. The deck needs consistency and not sacky boss monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 [quote name='-Greiga-' timestamp='1330535485' post='5847869'] I need more opinions on this, that is, Formula to 2 and Zenmaighty to 1. Also explain specifically why unless someone already used your reason. [/quote] Eh, Formula to 2 is just a personal choice, because it's not half as abusable anymore, but could be bad, idk. Zenmaity definitely needs to go to 1, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 I bring up Formula to 2 because byakk also said something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 > DAD@1 nah. > Avarice@2 > Mezuki@2 > Emergency Teleport@2 > Burial from a Different Dimension@2 > Kalut@2 > Gale@2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Avarice is back to 1 and Mezuki is EARTH, and I begin to question BfaDD and Kalut after hearing all these opinions. Your suggestion is definitely noted though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 If you drop Rekindle and Transmission then Handmaiden is fine @3. Formula @2 is fine because it really can't be abused. All alternative win conditions should be banned, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 So possible additions to my format are right now Snoww @1 Formula @2 Rekindling @2 Heat Field @1 Kalut @1 BfaDD @1 PSZ @2 One Day @1 Countdown @0 Opinions on these changes? I don't include Exodia purely because of it's symbolism and I don't see or hear much about it nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Sounds alright, Greiga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 You only need to hit Heat Field or Rekindling, not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Heat Field @1 then, also editing OPEdited OP, also added Self-Destruct Button @0 because forcing draws in a game where you're supposed to win and/or avoiding a loss you should've gotten is really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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